http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Active Travel Debate - 7th Jan en Mon, 18 May 2026 15:26:35 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-178767 Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:05:59 +0000 chdot 178767@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2015/01/budget-hope" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/2015/01/budget-hope</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177885 Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:45:34 +0000 chdot 177885@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>The reality is that the fiscal underspend the Scottish Government has available from 2013-14 to invest in public services is only 0.5 per cent of our budget, or £145 million. </p> <p>Far from keeping it a secret, I announced it to Parliament in June, and confirmed that it would be carried into the next year – and that every penny would be allocated to support people in Scotland.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/letters/145m-is-the-true-underspend-1-3660011" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/letters/145m-is-the-true-underspend-1-3660011</a> </p> <p>Some for AT then Mr. Swinney? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177543 Mon, 12 Jan 2015 19:11:48 +0000 chdot 177543@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Outstanding 'telling off' of SG by committee with SNP majority. </p> <p>A LOT of credit goes to Spokes (and its key individuals) for the evidence that led to committee's conclusions.</p> <p>"</p> <p>MSPs seek ‘substantial additional funding’ for active travel<br /> In a detailed reponse to the Scottish Government’s draft budget 2015-16, MSPs on the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee (ICI) recommend that the government consider “substantial additional funding” to roll out sustainable and active travel projects…</p> <p>The Committee’s detailed scrutiny and evidence-taking focussed on how the draft budget did or did not contribute to 3 of the government’s own National Indicators …</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2015/01/msps-seek-substantial-additional-funding-for-active-travel" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2015/01/msps-seek-substantial-additional-funding-for-active-travel</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177427 Sat, 10 Jan 2015 20:13:14 +0000 chdot 177427@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Don't suppose the minister has read this -</p> <p>"</p> <p>‘Hard Measures’, designed around walking, cycling, shared car use and public transport, could play an integral part of future proofing places that are able to deliver multi-modal trips and not trips dominated by single occupancy car trips. The Scottish Government’s publication ‘Designing Streets’ (2010) has set out guidance that puts 'place and people before the movement of motor vehicles’.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/environment/smarter-choices-smarter-places" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/environment/smarter-choices-smarter-places</a></p> <p>- or many people in TS really. </p> <p>I suppose they would argue that it's got nothing to do with the important business of building bridges and upgrading trunk roads. </p> <p>All that stuff is for LAs to do - and 'we mustn't interfere'... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177373 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 14:05:49 +0000 chdot 177373@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2015/01/no-new-cycling-cash" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2015/01/no-new-cycling-cash</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177360 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 12:13:28 +0000 dougal 177360@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From Uncle Kempez' Singalong Blog:</p> <p>"He told them about the proposal to link the other end of George street to the bike lane on Leith Walk ..."</p> <p>There's a cycle lane on Leith Walk? Where's it hidden? Is it anywhere near the double-parked cars or adjacent to the potholes? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177312 Fri, 09 Jan 2015 00:03:00 +0000 chdot 177312@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://pedalonparliament.org/brave-politicians-wanted" rel="nofollow">http://pedalonparliament.org/brave-politicians-wanted</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177288 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 18:59:16 +0000 chdot 177288@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Sarah Ryan (@AmeliaSalty)<br /> 08/01/2015 13:00<br /> Serious notetaking while watching the #scottishparliament #activetravel debate yesterday. </p> <p><a href="http://pic.twitter.com/u5YGVhWGXi" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/u5YGVhWGXi</a></p> <p>"</p> <p>Worth a click! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177230 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 11:23:14 +0000 shuggiet 177230@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Congratulations to CCE contributor UtrechtCyclist/Uncle Kempez in getting a namecheck and a dream in the debate! Impressive influence for such a short time so far in Edinburgh.</p> <p>From Jim Eadie:<br /> Many of my constituents have urged me to press the Government to do more, and I reiterate their calls today. However, one constituent stands out. On his blog, “Uncle Kempez’s Edinburgh Blog”, he said that he had had a dream, and that he hoped that I could make it come true. He set out a vision of a greener, happier and healthier Scotland as a result of sustained investment in cycling infrastructure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177214 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 10:25:50 +0000 Morningsider 177214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Darkerside - yes, there is a large public gallery. The seats are ridiculously uncomfortable though.</p> <p>chdot - community planning was formalised by the Local Government in Scotland Act 2003. Community planning partnerships (CPPs) have existed for over a decade (there is one for each local authority). CPPs are led by the local authority and involve other major public sector organisations and, sometimes, voluntary and private sector organisations. </p> <p>The aim is that all these bodies speak to each other, and the public, and then co-ordinate actions to secure the best outcomes. They have hardly been a roaring success, mainly because each organisation has its own priorities and budgets are very carefully guarded.</p> <p>I can't really see how a focus on community planning will improve active travel in any meaningful way. </p> <p>If you re interested, there is much more at:</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Government/PublicServiceReform/CP" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Government/PublicServiceReform/CP</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177206 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 09:55:30 +0000 chdot 177206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ fimm</p> <p>Certainly good to keep in touch with him. As he is now a minister it doesn't even need to be constituents. </p> <p>One thing about yesterday's debate was that those 'supporting active travel' were mostly talking about cycling (with good reason) and those who were lukewarm (no-one is <em>against</em> AT of course - just don't understand what it 'means') were more interested in "walking". </p> <p>This was partly because 'anyone can do it - so no need for money to be spent on infrastructure'. </p> <p>Of course most of the talk was of the health benefits if people bothered to do it (some mention of the majority of car journeys being short), but mostly about leisure - tourism even ('come and visit the wonderful paths in the highlands'). </p> <p>Don't remember the word "pedestrian" being used. Some talk of walking to school. ScotGov seems content that all that is about urban areas therefore the responsibility of LAs. </p> <p>SG just funds behaviour change programmes which (even if they work) seem to be mostly about 'leave the car, it's not too far' and 'be nice to other road users' - nothing much to improve 'walking environment'. </p> <p>There also seemed (even by the minister) to be little understanding of the role of Sustrans (funded by SG) to work with LAs on things other than the NCN. </p> <p>Lots to do (or not). Finding out more about "community planning" intentions would be good. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177205 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 09:54:49 +0000 Darkerside 177205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Forgive my complete ignorance of how this stuff works; is there a public gallery at these things? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177203 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 09:31:31 +0000 fimm 177203@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Much talk of community planning - responsibility of Marco Biagi who sat next to Minister but didn't speak.</em>"</p> <p>He's my MSP. He also came to the last POP, on foot. I spoke to him &amp; he said that he'd like to cycle but feels current conditions are too dangerous.</p> <p>(Is anyone else on here in his constituency? I can't make this year's POP, unfortunately, and it would be good to keep up the contact &amp; make sure he is there again.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177196 Thu, 08 Jan 2015 00:53:29 +0000 Darkerside 177196@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Summary of that transcript, with the key quotes.</p> <p>Summary of the summary: same old, same old.</p> <p><a href="http://www.darkerside.org/2015/01/summary-active-transport-debate-07-january-2015/" rel="nofollow">http://www.darkerside.org/2015/01/summary-active-transport-debate-07-january-2015/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177185 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 23:27:53 +0000 BurntOut 177185@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This <a href="http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=9709&amp;i=88514">link</a> takes you directly to the transcript of the debate.<br /> Enjoy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177180 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 22:45:02 +0000 Morningsider 177180@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm going to deconstruct some of what the Minister said during this debate.</p> <p><strong>"a survey showed that more than 50 per cent of schoolchildren travel actively to school"</strong> - During 1985/86 69% of children walked to school and 1% cycled. In 2011/12 this was 47% and 2%. The number going by car rose from 6% to 26% (1).</p> <p><strong>"I have already found how complex the budget lines are in the transport portfolio, partly because different portfolios contribute to active travel and cycling." </strong>Who is it that presents the budget in this complex manner? Why, it's the Scottish Government. The budgets are actually pretty simple. Scottish Government funding for active travel pretty much all comes from either the transport budget, or the Cycling, Walking and Safer Streets ring-fenced allocation to local authorities. The Scottish Government has simply chosen to lump in the cycling budgets with support for "sustainable travel".</p> <p><strong>"if there is evidence that the introduction of some form of strict liability will make active travel safer, we will of course look at it."</strong> Evidence of the effectiveness of strict liability in protecting cyclists is almost impossible to produce, certainly to a robust standard. Even if it can be produced the Government is simply committed to looking at it.</p> <p><strong>"I just want to make the point that cyclists, too, use roads, which means that spending on roads is not necessarily a bad thing for cycling in general."</strong> - The Scottish Government is investing around £8.7bn in major trunk road projects(2) over the next 10 years, none of which can be used by cyclists. Investment in roads that can be used by cyclists is miniscule compared to this.</p> <p><strong>"The answer was to have one project as an exemplar, to show what can be done. I am very sympathetic to that idea, because I think that it will help us with the critical mass point." </strong> Whatever happened to the Leith Walk "exemplar commuter corridor" (3) lauded by Keith Brown? Half the project quietly shelved for a possible tram extension you say?</p> <p><strong>"As Alison Johnstone knows, we are not a centralising Government" </strong>- ahem, Police Scotland, Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, council tax freeze - are these ringing any bells?</p> <p><strong>"In 2011-12, 1.8 per cent of the total transport budget was spent on sustainable and active travel and that will rise to 2.5 per cent in 2015-16 under current spending allocation plans." </strong>"Sustainable travel" - this includes electric car infrastructure, Glasgow Fastlink and a whole host of other projects of fairly questionable value.</p> <p>Make of it what you will.</p> <p>(1) Table 11.20 Scottish Transport Statistics 2013<br /> (2) Forth Crossing £1.4bn, A9 Dualling £3bn, A96 Dualling £3bn, M8 completion £0.5bn, Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route £0.75bn<br /> (3) <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/minister-announces-funding-allocation-cycling-infrastructure" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/minister-announces-funding-allocation-cycling-infrastructure</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177163 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 20:53:25 +0000 chdot 177163@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Tom Gordon (@HTScotPol)<br /> 07/01/2015 12:22<br /> SNP Government had record £450m underspend last year, despite repeated moans about austerity. My latest blog </p> <p><a href="http://scottishpol.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/stash-in-attic.html" rel="nofollow">http://scottishpol.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/stash-in-attic.html</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177161 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 20:45:56 +0000 chdot 177161@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://greenmsps.org/?p=445" rel="nofollow">http://greenmsps.org/?p=445</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177151 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:53:09 +0000 Arellcat 177151@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>'We are not a centralising government - will not tell LAs'</em></p> <p>"Light touch approach" and all that. Trouble is, you end up with good policies, approximately monitored, and barely enforced. After all, that's where the word 'policy' comes from.</p> <p>And effectively each LA does its own thing to whatever degree it believes is necessary or possible. Before long, you have an entire continent in which cycling is embraced and welcomed in one state, and in another cyclists daring to use the road might be barred from an entire township or run off the road for fun. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177148 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:23:14 +0000 I were right about that saddle 177148@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@twq</p> <p>Do it, but gently. Low watt bulb, small fuse and all that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177146 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:18:49 +0000 chdot 177146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From Spokes link -</p> <p>"More optimistically – a very powerful speech by Jim Eadie MSP"</p> <p>Yes, definitely the best - AND he's in the SNP. </p> <p>Another SNP MSP, Joan McAlpine, clearly understands 'how the Dutch became cyclists' - NOT 'because they always were'. </p> <p>Some good contributions from people in all parties. </p> <p>Some pointed 'walkers are more important' stances. </p> <p>Minister happy to point out how much it's responsibility of LAs. </p> <p>No conceding that AT funding hasn't keep pace with other transport spending - not even 'we'd like to but' (though inevitable refs to 'Westminster cutbacks to capital budgets'). </p> <p>No real acceptance that investment would save money elsewhere - though talk about 'cross budget spending' - with implication that there was more scope there. </p> <p>Much talk of community planning - responsibility of Marco Biagi who sat next to Minister but didn't speak. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177145 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:14:49 +0000 twq 177145@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@IWRATS interesting, he's one of my local councillors. Better go to one of his surgeries, in lycra, jangling my car keys. It will BLOW HIS MIND. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177144 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:11:30 +0000 I were right about that saddle 177144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just had a chat with this SNP luminary;</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/60/michael_bridgman" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/60/michael_bridgman</a></p> <p>Thinks roads are for cars and doesn't believe that anyone who owns a car rides a bicycle. Not sure if he uses steel tools or knaps his own flints. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177143 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:04:12 +0000 chdot 177143@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2015/01/no-new-cycling-cash" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2015/01/no-new-cycling-cash</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177142 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 17:57:30 +0000 chdot 177142@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Derek Mackay winding up. </p> <p>'Moved on from why AT importance'</p> <p>'Very sympathetic to idea of exemplary projects' - mentioned by AJ</p> <p>AJ intervention - 'are you aware some LAs spent nothing'</p> <p>'We are not a centralising government - will not tell LAs'</p> <p>'Thought generous generous and modest motion'</p> <p>'About partnership'</p> <p>'Further campaigns about road safety'</p> <p>'New rail franchise will do more for cyclists'</p> <p>'Advice on 20MPH for LAs coming soon'</p> <p>'Welcome pro-active cycling lobby'</p> <p>'Scottish Gov responsible for 6% of roads'</p> <p>'My first debate as Transport Minister is on AT' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177140 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 17:46:22 +0000 chdot 177140@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Mary Fee</p> <p>'Support amendment by Green Party'</p> <p>'Welcome briefing reports from several organisations'</p> <p>'Single out contribution from Jim Eadie'</p> <p>'I'm a walker. My father was a walker' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177138 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 17:38:32 +0000 chdot 177138@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Conservative Party remains committed to AT' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177135 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 17:37:23 +0000 Morningsider 177135@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Darkerside - the Official Report of the debate should be online around 2030. You will find it at:</p> <p><a href="http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/official-report.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/official-report.aspx</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177136 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 17:34:51 +0000 paddyirish 177136@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Spoon" was a frequently used insult when I was growing up in Norn Iron in the 80s.</p> <p>Others included "Plank" and "Spanner". Those were the days... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14187&page=2#post-177134 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 17:34:15 +0000 chdot 177134@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>AJ</p> <p>'AT overlooked and underfunded'</p> <p>'Progress to CAPS target virtually non existent'</p> <p>'Consensus around chamber that we want to get investment'</p> <p>'Looking for one exemplar project'</p> <p>'Cyclists spend more in local economy than people driving by'</p> <p>'Potholes are a problem' </p>