http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: 20's Plenty for Edinburgh en Thu, 21 May 2026 06:35:14 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-236558 Wed, 16 Nov 2016 11:37:01 +0000 chdot 236558@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Rod King MBE (@20splentyforus)<br /> 15/11/2016, 8:21 am<br /> in British Social Attitudes Survey 73% say #20splenty for residential roads. Now that's what I call "will of the people" </p> <p><a href="http://pic.twitter.com/PfkZSuX7oA" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/PfkZSuX7oA</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-190204 Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:51:01 +0000 acsimpson 190204@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's all over west Edinburgh too. I wonder how many man hours have been spent putting them up so far. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-190169 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:23:46 +0000 fimm 190169@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, there are signs on lampposts on the Gorgie Road and on the way to Harrison Park. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-190157 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 16:06:44 +0000 wingpig 190157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I noticed a notice on a lamppost round the corner from the house the other day. Not sure that it would be readable from a car going past, but it's a bit of road where lots of people park if the bit of road outside their house is occupied so a few might get to see it, though probably none of the people using that bit of road as a way of avoiding some traffic lights/shaving a couple of metres off their SatNav-mediated shortest route. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-190153 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:51:42 +0000 chdot 190153@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perhaps 'we' should object because it's not fair to drivers... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-190147 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:30:34 +0000 Stickman 190147@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>TROs</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/1383/tro1517_%E2%80%93_20_mph_speed_limit_order_%E2%80%93_edinburgh_area" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/1383/tro1517_%E2%80%93_20_mph_speed_limit_order_%E2%80%93_edinburgh_area</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183966 Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:20:28 +0000 acsimpson 183966@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If she's only done a little bit of route planning she could have cut far more time from her journey and avoided the city centre. All but that last mile or so from Newhaven Road would have been on roads where the limit isn't going to change. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183924 Sun, 22 Mar 2015 13:06:00 +0000 crowriver 183924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/video-record-reporter-tests-edinburghs-5312563">The Broken Record have noticed the 20mph rollout</a>. They sent a journalist to drive from Hermiston Gait to Ocean Terminal to test out what driving at 20mph feels like, and compare it with "normal" driving. The result was a largely positive endorsement, mainly because in Edinburgh the driver "rarely managed to get above 20mph anyway due to the high volume of traffic". Apparently driving at 20mph was less stressful than "normal" driving. It takes about the same amount of time too: only a 2 minute difference in journey duration.</p> <p>Despite this positive tone in the article, the poll at the foot of the article shows 86% *against* the 20mph limits. I'm sure we can do something about that, CCE? (Web link above). </p> <p>Oh and how ironic that at the end of the journey, the journalist's car is parked on a double yellow line near some pedestrian crossing zigzags! See the photo in the article for evidence... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183508 Tue, 17 Mar 2015 14:44:30 +0000 SRD 183508@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>anyone watch the committee meeting today? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183502 Tue, 17 Mar 2015 13:59:23 +0000 cb 183502@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is "LesterBongs" someone here? I did quite like his/her take on the Say-no-to-20 protest from the viewpoint of the attending dog:</p> <p>"<br /> In a letter to the Evening News, Rover the Dog has sought to disassociate himself from opposition to the 20mph speed limit plans</p> <p> Rover, aged 7, said "I tried to explain to my owner that the number of Facebook likes on a page doesn't mean anything. I also pointed out that claims of "endless research" would usually be backed up by production of evidence and documentation of that research. They seemed to think an incoherent rant in capital letters about the "clowncil" would mean they had won the argument. "</p> <p> Rover believed that his owner had seen sense when they left for their morning walk, however things took a turn for the worse when they arrived at Holyrood Park for the start of the demonstration. </p> <p> "My owner took my ball, so I thought he'd seen sense. Unfortunately he tricked me into turning up. I hoped that he would maybe see sense when he saw the turnout was so pathetically low, but even the sign with the spelling mistake on the front of the disco bus didn't put him off. It was embarrassing."</p> <p> Despite later taking revenge on his owner by urinating on the hall carpet, Rover has said that his presence at the demonstration had had an impact on his social life. </p> <p> "I can barely look other dogs in the eye now. They all ask if it was me in the pictures. Grant MacCusker has a lot to answer for."<br /> " </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183422 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:26:25 +0000 Stickman 183422@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, they are good - particularly the ones on the article from the other day. </p> <p>The EEN commenters are developing their own new kind of physics where mass is irrelevant in a collision. Apparently all it takes is some elementary first year engineering to prove it. The full proof has yet to be published, but I'm sure they are just sorting out the final details. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183420 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:20:22 +0000 chdot 183420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You been reading the comments?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183418 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:16:57 +0000 SRD 183418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>the EEN commentators must have got a new supplier... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=7#post-183319 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:29:06 +0000 chdot 183319@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>“Edinburgh is a thriving and vibrant city. A speed limit of 20mph will make our streets a better place for all who live, relax and work here, and improve the vast majority of Edinburgh’s residential and shopping streets.”</p> <p>"</p> <p>CTC Scotland </p> <p>Guide Dogs Scotland </p> <p>Inclusion Scotland </p> <p>Living Streets </p> <p>Scotland </p> <p>Parkinson’s UK </p> <p>Ramblers Scotland </p> <p>Spokes </p> <p>Sustrans Scotland </p> <p>Transform Scotland </p> <p>WWF Scotland</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/charities-back-plan-for-20mph-zones-in-edinburgh-1-3719306" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/charities-back-plan-for-20mph-zones-in-edinburgh-1-3719306</a></p> <p>(Spokes isn't actually a charity.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183246 Sat, 14 Mar 2015 00:02:48 +0000 chdot 183246@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So -</p> <p>Neil Greig doesn't think signs are enough because 'drivers take their cues from the road/surroundings'. </p> <p>So -</p> <p>Need to 'change streetscape like Denmark'. </p> <p>So - </p> <p>He'll be campaigning for the SG to spend lots of money -</p> <p>(?)</p> <p>He really seems to have no understanding beyond the 'road safety' arguments. </p> <p>But he did seem to be listening - and looked as though he has hearing some good points (from dd) for the first time! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183245 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 23:42:18 +0000 chdot 183245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=5QqorDmE0oo" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=5QqorDmE0oo</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183144 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 20:53:33 +0000 daisydaisy 183144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks guys, v useful to read here what Neil was likely to say and some responses to that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183125 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:22:45 +0000 ARobComp 183125@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But well done Daisy Daisy - you did very well. Always bad to think back on these things you'll always think of other things you could have done.</p> <p>You won IMHO! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183123 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:21:47 +0000 ARobComp 183123@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@NeilGreigIAM was entertaining with his insistence that drivers are too stupid to notice signs, or, you know, the law. You made a good point that you expect drivers to obey the law. Well done. </p> <p>Other gems include - "enforcement would be very unpopular" from Neily boy. </p> <p>Also he was trying to align Living Streets with the IAM... Not sure that's really true. </p> <p>Also you need infrastructure "so that you KNOW that you're sharing the road with vulnerable road users." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183119 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:06:13 +0000 SRD 183119@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm sure it went great. these things are just like near misses/road rage - so much you wish you had said after the fact! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183107 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:14:39 +0000 daisydaisy 183107@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, so much more I could have said! Child mortality, inequality, 20 mph as the default on all urban areas, small increases in speed leading to large increases in braking distance and fatality.<br /> I got drawn into the debate as it was framed, and was surprised not to get asked why i was in favour of 20 in the first place, all chat about implementation details...<br /> It's not online yet, so I've not had a chance to watch it back. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183092 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:18:41 +0000 jdanielp 183092@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For a moment I was wondering if @NeilGreigIAM was going for a trendy Twitter name by aping Will.I.AM, but I now realise that "IAM" stands for something else entirely. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183078 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:14:23 +0000 kaputnik 183078@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Indeed, but there's usually the nonsense response about engines not working efficiently at low(er) speed resulting in more fuel use, pollution etc.</em></p> <p>That would only make any sense whatsoever if a car didn't have a gearbox. The whole point in a gearbox is that it allows the engine to run for most of the time in a fairly narrow band of revolutions at which it is at its most efficient and which places a low amount of stress on the components.</p> <p>Perhaps some drivers are like the die-hard fixionados who refuse to run at anything over than 81 inches of gears.</p> <p><em>"It's difficult to drive a car at 20mph"</em></p> <p>It doesn't seem that hard, all the folks chugging along at 4mph I pass every morning on London Road seem more than capable of also mastering their phones, ipods, listening to music or the radio, chatting to the rare other occupant of the car or perhaps eating a slice of toast like a gentleman I saw this morning. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183072 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:33:36 +0000 chdot 183072@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I just move down a gear and that seems to work"</p> <p>Indeed, but there's usually the nonsense response about engines not working efficiently at low(er) speed resulting in more fuel use, pollution etc. </p> <p>There is the fantasy notion that (in town) people just merrily cruise along at 30mph and now 'the council' will MAKE them drive at 20. </p> <p>Of course no-one bothers to mention that car engines don't run efficiently from the second they are switched on in the morning. In fact many don't reach optimum conditions before the owner has arrived at work! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183063 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:23:59 +0000 UtrechtCyclist 183063@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm sure you know all this, but you might like to think about the statements</p> <p>"People will drive at the speed that a road 'feels like', not what's written on the sign"<br /> (People used to feel safe drinking four pints and driving, there has been a cultural change here of which changing and enforcing the law was a significant part.</p> <p>"There's no point if it won't be enforced"<br /> It will be enforced, just as police enforce all speed restrictions. Some confusion over comments about it not being a priority, not sure what the deal is here. </p> <p>"It's difficult to drive a car at 20mph"<br /> (heard a green lady on radio4 give the excellent answer, 'I'm no expert in driving but I just move down a gear and that seems to work') </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183061 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:22:51 +0000 chdot 183061@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"pointlessly, when they then have to brake at the next queue"</p> <p>Yes. </p> <p>Perhaps he can get more members by offering a big discount on a new 'how to drive in Edinburgh's 20mph zones' course. </p> <p>The rest of the course would be paid for in fuel and maintenance cost savings. </p> <p>(And that's without mentioning 'externals' like less wear on the roads, less noise, lower air pollution etc. etc.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183060 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:20:35 +0000 SRD 183060@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>here's one for you when they mention 'spiralling cost of implementation':</p> <p>each road fatality costs us 1.69 million, so 20mph will SAVE money, not cost it.</p> <p><a href="http://www.makingthelink.net/tools/costs-child-accidents/costs-road-accidents)" rel="nofollow">http://www.makingthelink.net/tools/costs-child-accidents/costs-road-accidents)</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183058 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:15:11 +0000 wingpig 183058@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wonder how many people there are in the IAM's policy and research departments, being directed by Neil Greig. Maybe it's just him, which is why he's not had time to research things like kinetic energy and the energy required to accelerate large masses to higher speeds (pointlessly, when they then have to brake at the next queue). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183057 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:12:37 +0000 daisydaisy 183057@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You will be able to watch it later. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14385&page=6#post-183054 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:09:16 +0000 daisydaisy 183054@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for reminding me of your favourite stats. I like the idea of getting Neil to expand on his alternative vision of segregated infrastructure! </p>