http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: A bus service that gets you and bike to trail en Wed, 13 May 2026 03:03:27 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-181631 Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:12:37 +0000 kaputnik 181631@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was trying to find the location of the Dartford Tunnel so naturally stumbled on the Wikipedia article and this wonderful image;</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartford_Crossing#mediaviewer/File:Dartford_Tunnel_bus.jpg"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c1/Dartford_Tunnel_bus.jpg/320px-Dartford_Tunnel_bus.jpg"></a></p> <p>(click to big).</p> <p>Unfortunately there was no door and nothing to stop you falling off the bus at speed if you fell on the stairs. It wasn't a commercial success as the 5 buses ordered had monthly running costs of £2,500 but revenue of only £45.</p> <p>Apart from that it looks like a marvelous contraption! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-25700 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:14 +0000 chdot 25700@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2418">"Routes to/from MidL", Thread continues here</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-25695 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:10:02 +0000 Anonymous 25695@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This was my, more direct, route south from the city to the Pentlands/Penicuik/Bush Estate that I used as my entry to the Spokes contest in 2009... needless to say I don't know what it would actually cost to enlarge a tunnel under the city bypass, or build a path across that farmland. I think it't be a useful route though: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/6bt5aad" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/6bt5aad</a> (pdf) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-25678 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:01:11 +0000 chdot 25678@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"That will be a really positive step if this happens"</p> <p>Yes, I think the plan is to 'start' the path on the A7 Old Dalkeith Road by the PnR though that is not a particularly nice road out of town.</p> <p>After that the rest of the line to Millerhill will probably become a path perhaps if/when the Borders Railway is built <em>and</em> 'promised' parallel cycle path is added (towards Newcraighall). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-25669 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:27:58 +0000 cb 25669@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That will be a really positive step if this happens; there isn't really a good route out of town to the south for non-confident cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-25625 Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:52:17 +0000 kaputnik 25625@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't think of any other reason they'd remove the rails after leaving them in situ for 25 years - if it they were being stolen for scrap they wouldn't have left them at the side of the trackbed... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459&page=2#post-25624 Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:49:33 +0000 chdot 25624@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"or are moves afoot to resurface this as a path?"</p> <p>As far as I know this is now in the hands of Sustrans which has planned for a while to create a path from Millerhill to Loanhead. </p> <p>I'm pretty sure the Loanhead to <a href="http://www2.midlothian.gov.uk/Article.aspx?TopicId=0&amp;ArticleId=17001">Straiton Pond</a> section is going ahead soon so maybe the rest too?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-25623 Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:38:39 +0000 kaputnik 25623@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Update - PW gangs have been out lifting the rails and sleepers this week;</p> <p><a href="http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=32996"><img src="http://www.railbrit.org.uk/images/32000/32996.jpg"></a></p> <p>They were still in situ about a month ago when I went up there with the camera and took some shots (it was about 25 years since a train had last rumbled down them). So is this clearance just to recover them from scrap value or are moves afoot to resurface this as a path?</p> <p>According to Railscot, Network Rail's land ownership terminates at the bridge on the old backroad between Millerhill Village and Shawfair. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-25217 Mon, 28 Feb 2011 01:09:14 +0000 kaputnik 25217@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Map 5 has the aspirational route for the "sensible" off-road cycle path into Midlothian along the Loanhead Railway trackbed that comes with pre-built underpass for the Bypass. Some recent pics on the railscot website show that this is currently a muddy quagmire. </p> <p>I'm not sure how far the rails still extend but they run for some distance beyond Gilmerton but not as far as Bypass. They could pay for some of the work by selling the rails for scrap! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-25214 Mon, 28 Feb 2011 00:05:20 +0000 cb 25214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Following on from the planning application chdot found for a Roslin to Leadburn cycle route, I was having a look at this page, and all the lovely maps therein:</p> <p><a href="http://www.midlothian.gov.uk/downloads/495/parks_gardens_and_open_spaces">http://www.midlothian.gov.uk/downloads/495/parks_gardens_and_open_spaces</a></p> <p>Maps 10, 11 and 17 cover the route as far as Leadburn (which is on the Midlothian boundary). Map 17 is the most interesting. The "aspirational" route shown in it is different (and better) to that in the planning application.<br /> It would be nice to think that the Map 17 version of the route would be the final one, but I suspect this predates the planning application which is possibly all just evidence that when the council gets down to it, they have to compromise a lot from their aspirational plans. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13919 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 22:03:45 +0000 druidh 13919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I should really say that my complaint about that new path is not so much that it's not very direct, it's that it has lots of junctions, turnings and road crossings. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13918 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 19:54:55 +0000 gembo 13918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is a lot of new tarmac going down on the lanes around Balerno (still rough patches but some nice new stuff). The worst bit remains at Thriepmur Reservoir but Old Newmills Road, a steep hill where I cracked my ribs sledging in the winter is good, down to railway crossing then up past apre-georgian farm (Gowanhill? ) it was white with green windows but is being majorly renovated, then all the way to back entrance to Heriot Watt, it cuts up very rough here as Uni tries to persuade you not to go in that way, then down to canal and in to Chesser. That is the route I took this lovely sunny morn but I have loads more less than interesting tales of the new tarmac around Balerno to bore you with. The Water of Leith path on the other hand is mud slide for horses only. p.s. do not vote tory as they are very pro-motorist without a doubt [I am off to track down More or Less on R4 it is a maths prog, apparently using words such as bike helmut deny-ers?!] </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13915 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 17:24:52 +0000 DdF 13915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>chdot: "One problem is that the bypass is also mostly the boundary between Edinburgh and Midlothian. City of Edinburgh Council is not keen on creating cross-boundary cycle routes because it considers that it's not 'value for money' due to the relatively small number of people that would use it compared with (for instance) MMW. All the more reason for some joined-up-policies on transport and tourism that don't stop at artificial borders."</p> <p>All very true. You can understand Edinburgh's angle given that they have limited funds - those routes with highest actual and potential use are likely to get most money. The same is true for every council.</p> <p>There is a similar problem for bus facilities etc.</p> <p>This is one of the main reasons why the previous Scottish Govt (Lab/Lib) set up the Regional Transport Partnerships (RTPs) - to tackle cross-boundary investment which is important at a wider level but which is not a priority for each individual council - commuter bus &amp; cycle routes into cities, park&amp;rides, etc. And why it was such a tragedy that the SNP as one of their first acts removed all capital funding from the RTPs, giving it instead to councils to spend on anything (not necessarily even transport).</p> <p>Our own local RTP, Sestran (not to be confused with Sustrans) had already set up a big cycling budget (admittedly after a fair bit of lobbying from spokes and others) - nearly £5m over a number of years for routes between Edinburgh and surrounding council areas. They had just spent the first year's allocation (some A8 and Midlothian improvements) when the RTP money was taken away by the new Scottish Government. Otherwise we would by now be well ahead with routes to Midlothian, the A90 route, and so on.</p> <p>Moral - next May is Holyrood elections. Now is the time to email your MSPs asking if their party will in their manifesto include a promise to re-allocate some of the govt transport money to Regional Transport Partnerships for public transport and cycling projects. [could be easily funded by a reduction in the trunk roads budget!] </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13898 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:39:36 +0000 chdot 13898@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Min</p> <p>"I think you'll find that horses, like cyclists - do not appreciate speeding drivers roaring past a few inches away."</p> <p>Yep, as I was saying - lots of reasons for horse and cycling interests to work <em>together</em>... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13897 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:38:09 +0000 chdot 13897@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"People complain that it is urbanising the countryside,"</p> <p>Somewhat of an irony on places like Colinton - Balerno. </p> <p>I'm sure there were a few people complaining about destroying rural life when they built the railway!</p> <p>Though at least they were used to 'industry' as the Water of Leith already had mills - the railway 'caused' them to get bigger...</p> <p>It's not just tarmac there - 'locals' also object to the idea of lights.</p> <p>If you've every wondered why the tarmac runs out not long after coming off the canal - that's the bit Sustrans paid for. At various times it could have had money to do the rest, but...</p> <p>Actually I am in two minds about tarmac for this path. It would no doubt increase speed (it can already be quite fast - which is fine if there are no wakers/dogs) so there would be a 'demand' for speed bumps and/or chicanes.</p> <p>What IS needed is MAINTENANCE - especially the realisation the leaves fall every year and turn into mush unless cleared. I remember meet a 'walking for health" group about 4 years ago, just below the tunnel, who would have been enjoying themselves a lot more if they hadn't been worrying about the mud engulfing their shoes!</p> <p>The path got scraped not long after - but it had taken several years to get in that state. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13896 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:35:41 +0000 Min 13896@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"There are the roads of course "</p> <p>I think you'll find that horses, like cyclists - do not appreciate speeding drivers roaring past a few inches away. They don't appreciate it <em>violently</em>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13895 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:21:46 +0000 chdot 13895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@LaidBack</p> <p>"Apparently there aren't"</p> <p>Well yes. There are the roads of course and the paths you mention plus Longniddry - Haddington. You'd think that horses would be welcome on farmland (not crops) and more able to deal with the terrain that most bikes(?)</p> <p>I wonder if Midlothian has a horse/riding strategy(?)</p> <p>"won't be used for high speed travel so little reason to tar in this case?"</p> <p>Well - If you were in a hurry you wouldn't go that way anyway. Reasons for tarmac are basically to encourage users who don't like mud (inc. townie walkers) AND because unless you do a really good job to sort out drainage <em>and</em> have a maintenance regime/budget tarmac is likely to be more cost effective.</p> <p>Such things are of course a balance of cost and best way of achieving desired outcome - i.e. (amongst other things) more people willing to walk/cycle, get exercise/fresh air etc. etc.</p> <p>People's expectations change. A few years ago people responsible for the 'great outdoors' realised that while there were some 'traditionalist' who only wanted discrete singletrack (walking) paths. There was a rising tide of people who actually wanted paths wide enough for two people to walk together - and a decent enough surface so they could wear high heels. (I made that bit up - but certainly a lot of 'casual country explorers' would rather not have to buy boots.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13894 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:18:29 +0000 steveo 13894@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"People complain that it is urbanising the countryside," says Simon Pratt, the Sustrans officer handling the Avenue Verte outside London" </p> <p>So close to nominative determinism at work right there :)</p> <p>I can see where the horsey culture folk come from but a tarmac surface makes it safer and easier for all riders while the Dell path is no go for a roady and even a bit ropey for a slick tyred mtb. 50/50 shared use with tarmac and hard pack would be a nice compromise. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13893 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:13:17 +0000 cb 13893@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Unfortunately horses can cause havoc to the surface of a path and the only users that don't mind the resulting mud bath are horse riders (and young children I suppose).<br /> If space allowed then a 50/50 tarmac/dirt surface would be good.</p> <p>See also <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11447348">this</a> article about the London to Paris cycle route. The French side has good cycling surfaces; not so in Britain:</p> <p>"Sustrans, the charity that promotes cycle routes in the UK, advocates hard surfaces, but faces resistance from some user groups.</p> <p>"People complain that it is urbanising the countryside," says Simon Pratt, the Sustrans officer handling the Avenue Verte outside London" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13892 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:57:51 +0000 LaidBack 13892@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>chdot</strong> <em>'No doubt there are lots of places to ride horses too - perhaps there should be more (with or without tarmac).'</em></p> <p>Apparently there aren't - my daughter has helped out at Tower Farm around Braids and traffic can be a problem.<br /> The Colinton Dell path was not tarred to make it more 'horse-friendly'. (Tarmac wears out horseshoes.)</p> <p>Personally I can see both sides as these paths are multi-use. The surface on Colinton path is adequate - as is Pentcaitland Trail where horse riders and cyclists co-exist. Key thing is drainage and maintenance.</p> <p>As far as the circuitous nature is concerned then it won't be used for high speed travel so little reason to tar in this case? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13891 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:32:31 +0000 chdot 13891@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I always love comments about tarmacing the country side"</p> <p>As has been suggested such comments often come from horse riders. I can't pretend I understand the needs of horse owners/users, but in many ways their concerns are similar to cyclists in terms of places it's allowed/possible to ride. </p> <p>In general, in Scotland, it's now possible to walk/ride "responsibly" almost anywhere. </p> <p>There are places where horses are banned and even places where horses are allowed and bikes not allowed - bridle path in The Braids. </p> <p>Some bike riders don't take enough care around horses - but some aren't that bothered about pedestrians either...</p> <p>There's probably scope for more co-operation between horse and bike riders to get better routes/access - but 'we don't like tarmac' attitudes don't help. </p> <p>Horse interests were actively involved (with other groups) to try to stop the Dalkeith bypass slicing through Dalkeith Park. Not sure if they got <em>any</em> concessions - the opportunity to improve conditions and create links/routes for cyclists was comprehensively ignored. </p> <p>Historically Midlothian Council hasn't taken that much interest in cycling, but at least this new route shows some interest. </p> <p>The Council is planning to make the Loanhead to Straiton Pond section of the former Bilston Glen line into a path (presumably with tarmac!)</p> <p>This is important because the existence of a (working) railway meant that an underpass was created when the bypass was built. The bypass is a real barrier to safe/pleasant travel between Edinburgh and Midlothian by walkers, cyclists and horse riders. </p> <p>Midlothian is fairly keen to encourage tourism. A good link from Edinburgh for non-motorised travellers would help. It could promote itself as "the place to ride". There are plenty of quiet roads and most of The Pentlands is in Midlothian. </p> <p>No doubt there are lots of places to ride horses too - perhaps there should be more (with or without tarmac).</p> <p>One problem is that the bypass is also mostly the boundary between Edinburgh and Midlothian. City of Edinburgh Council is not keen on creating cross-boundary cycle routes because it considers that it's not 'value for money' due to the relatively small number of people that would use it compared with (for instance) MMW. </p> <p>All the more reason for some joined-up-policies on transport and tourism that don't stop at artificial borders. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13889 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:56:46 +0000 steveo 13889@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I always love comments about tarmacing the country side, if there wasn't already a million miles of tarmac running through it then i might agree with them. We could rip up the roads but then they might have to get their Range Rovers dirty. Also i'd have no where to ride the roady..... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13886 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:37:28 +0000 Arellcat 13886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have a feeling it's hard sand that horses like to run on, like that <a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&amp;ll=55.94497,-3.194275&amp;spn=0.206483,0.701752&amp;z=11">long stretch through Hyde Park</a>. That could easily run alongside a tarmac cycle path for much of the route if they resurrected the <a href="http://www.railbrit.co.uk/Peebles_Railway/frame.htm">Peebles Railway</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13883 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 00:50:30 +0000 kaputnik 13883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe we could compromise and have one half tarmac and the other half gravel. Or gold plated. Or whatever it is that horses like riding on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13879 Sun, 03 Oct 2010 23:15:04 +0000 cb 13879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"planning permission for a multi-user path for the Leadburn"</p> <p>As druidh says, it is a shame it is such a twisting route. On the map the former railway trackbed looks largely intact all the way to leadburn which would have created a very fast route.</p> <p>Again, on the Leadburn to Peebles section the old railway would be a great route.</p> <p>Unfortunately not everyone likes the idea of a tarmac path. Did anyone look at the Comments tab on the planning application page (containing 12 Objections)?</p> <p>Jeezo:<br /> - "I cannot see the appeal of miles of tarmac scarring our countryside so please if it aint broke don't fix it"<br /> - "I believe that if this goes ahead it will be a travesty"<br /> - "I see no need for wholesale tarmacing of the countryside"<br /> - "I read with disgust and dismay that this well used route for walkers, horse riders and cyclists is to be turned into a cycle ONLY path and it is to be covered in tarmac!!"</p> <p>and my personal fave:<br /> - "surely people's Human Rights are being infringed by this madness"</p> <p>I guess these outbursts have all come from the same place. I found many of the names on this horsey page:<br /> <a href="http://www.scottishendurance.com/news.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.scottishendurance.com/news.htm</a></p> <p>I think I may add a comment about how wonderful tarmac is and can there be a more wonderful sound than that of a horse-shoed hoof clinking on a tarmacadam surface. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13856 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 16:54:33 +0000 SRD 13856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The road to Peebles wasn't that bad (thread aout that somewhere involving 3 year old, tent, bust gear cable etc), but I would certainly try an off-road route. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13854 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 14:31:08 +0000 druidh 13854@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That planning application has to be some sort of joke. There's around 15 junctions or changes of direction along a route which should be continuous. Given that there's a nice direct road through Howgate, I know which one I'll be using. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13841 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 10:43:07 +0000 Dave 13841@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My mountain bike has a maximum speed of about 10mph unless it's going down a wall. There's no way I'd be able to ride around Glentress after riding it there!</p> <p>(I have thought about hitching a bike-carrying trailer to the lowracer and towing it, but seems a bit unnecessary). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13839 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 10:16:54 +0000 chdot 13839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"SRD's option of the train might be a little costly, getting the line laid, the station built etc but would be nice to have the Glentress Express."</p> <p>Galashiels in 2014(?)</p> <p>ALSO</p> <p>Come across this - </p> <p>"planning permission for a multi-user path for the Leadburn - Roslin Glen section of a path to/from Peebles" just approved. </p> <p><a href="https://planning-applications.midlothian.gov.uk/OnlinePlanning/caseDetails.do?caseNo=09/00337/FUL&amp;caseType=Application" rel="nofollow">https://planning-applications.midlothian.gov.uk/OnlinePlanning/caseDetails.do?caseNo=09/00337/FUL&amp;caseType=Application</a></p> <p>Unfortunately it's not all former railway lines. I assume Leadburn will be reached next year, Peebles by 2020??</p> <p>Finding out timescales. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1459#post-13838 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 09:45:40 +0000 gembo 13838@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is a guy doing this sort of thing already. I see his van most mornings at Gillespie Crossroads. He takes bikes to trails. Personally, I go with cycling and no car but then I am only ever going to do road or low level off road stuff. Sustrans through your back garden kind of stuff. I struggle with the logic of putting a bike on the back of a car. I do of course combine train and bike that is nice.</p> <p>SRD's option of the train might be a little costly, getting the line laid, the station built etc but would be nice to have the Glentress Express. </p>