http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Minister for trunk roads en Thu, 14 May 2026 04:16:44 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254210 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 23:21:25 +0000 LaidBack 254210@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This thread seems to be leaving for a political overview of where we are currently as we progress to 'who knows where'.<br /> So I'll give a snapshot from Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp's article in today's National.</p> <p>Picture: Deliveroo riders protest at London HQ</p> <p>Theme: New divisions will run deeper than left or right (yes and no).</p> <p>Content: The new class system only has two castes. Those whose income is secure and those whose income is insecure.</p> <p>Real jobs don't exist in the Deliveroo Economy... If you think that's bad the Uber Economy has no workers at all.<br /> (Or plans to have no workers?)</p> <p>Going to post Rab Wilson's 'Mair fowks should be oot thair gettin on thair bikes' to cheer you all up! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254176 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:27:48 +0000 cc 254176@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Re unemployment and the 1970s. I recall the Tories in the late 70s made an enormous fuss when the number of unemployed people (*) went over the shocking figure of one million. </p> <p>When the Tories got into government in 1979 they lost little time in sending the unemployment figures to well over three million, and inflation up to 35%.</p> <p>(*) actual unemployment, then, not just those who hadn't been excluded from eligibility to claim the resulting benefit </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254173 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:17:35 +0000 Cyclingmollie 254173@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The recession that was the worst was in the early 1980s</em></p> <p>At school in the 70's it was assumed you could walk into a job if you had a degree. I graduated in 1982 and after over 100 job application rejections did a teacher training course. I got my first full-time post in 1988. So yes, it was pretty bad.</p> <p>Edit: maybe an English degree wasn't the best choice. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254172 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 14:20:42 +0000 crowriver 254172@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The one guy in my primary class everyone thought was fat would barely count as normal weight now. We really have changed."</p> <p>It's true. It's global too, not just Scotland, though we are one of the most obese societies on the planet.</p> <p>"Don't worry, the way things are going this country will soon be back in a recession like the one in the 1970s - people will lose their jobs, starve, and no longer be able to afford to eat in restaurants"</p> <p>There's this myth about the 1970s that there was this huge recession. It's not true. We might not have had full employment like the 1960s but it wasn't so bad. There was an energy (oil) crisis, there was industrial unrest. The Empire finally came to end. There was some unemployment, but not that bad. </p> <p>The recession that was the worst was in the early 1980s, as a result of Thatcher's monetarist policies, in particular the abolition of exchange controls in 1979 which led to an exodus of capital, and resulting in very high interest rates which destroyed huge swathes of manufacturing industry. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254154 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 12:26:48 +0000 Ed1 254154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think when duelling a road cycle lanes should always be added with a small wall as when the road is duelled people think you cant cycle on it </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254102 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 08:18:55 +0000 I were right about that saddle 254102@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Stickman</p> <p>It's amusing (to me anyway) to think that the A9 is actually the King's Road from Dunkeld to Fort George (the old one in Inverness that the Jacobites engaged a French engineer to blow up) built by General Wade in the late 1720s.</p> <p>The costs are hard to compare but it was a big expense and a huge project for back then, made for the purpose of 'Establishing an order in those Parts and Reducing the Highlanders to a more due submission to Your Majesty’s Government'. This was to be done by i) getting troops north to crack heads and ii) getting highland recruits south in volume. It demonstrated the power of the new state in its last lawless region.</p> <p>I would say that the road still has a political function in demonstrating to the inhabitants of the north in concrete fashion that the south (wherever that is) still cares about them. It's a Mitterand-style project whose importance goes beyond its strict utility.</p> <p>I can't think of any other reason why the dualling would be done when the traffic flow does not justify it and the average speed cameras have already dealt with the bulk of the safety issues.</p> <p>Over-engineering can go wrong of course - the French sapper who mined the old Fort George was so keen on his work that the resulting explosion killed him. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254099 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 08:00:18 +0000 chdot 254099@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>The £8 billion total is breathtaking, even if some of the work has been awaited for decades.</p> <p>...</p> <p>For the A9 and A96, it is true that the railway lines which largely follow them are also being upgraded - but the estimated combined cost of some £400m is a fraction of that being spent on the new dual carriageways. </p> <p>In fact, the planned widening of an 11-mile section of the A82 beside Loch Lomond could cost almost as much, while spending that much on cycling might give ministers a glimmer of hope of getting anywhere near their “vision” of 10 per cent of journeys by bike.</p> <p>"</p> <p>War on (potential) cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-254097 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 07:51:15 +0000 Stickman 254097@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/alastair-dalton-scale-of-road-building-is-cause-for-thought-1-4490547" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/alastair-dalton-scale-of-road-building-is-cause-for-thought-1-4490547</a></p> <p>Laid out like this it is staggering how much is being spent on road projects. I thought we were living through austerity?</p> <p><em>Since a stretch south of Aviemore of just five miles, due to be completed by August, has cost £35m, that could mean a series of big bills all coming in at the same time.</em></p> <p>5 miles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-253866 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:43:32 +0000 neddie 253866@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>discounted back to 1970 to allow for sedentary lifestyles and overeating</em></p> <p>Don't worry, the way things are going this country will soon be back in a recession like the one in the 1970s - people will lose their jobs, starve, and no longer be able to afford to eat in restaurants*</p> <p>*Except Inner-Circle members. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=3#post-253862 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:39:38 +0000 I were right about that saddle 253862@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>They ran a campaign like this down in England fronted by Anton Du Beke and Dale Winton</em></p> <p>Dante Alighieri missed a trick in never detailing that particular circle of Hell. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253860 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:32:36 +0000 chdot 253860@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"If you can't fit through the '1970 Gate' then you are banned from driving and must walk or cycle until you can fit through the Gate."</p> <p>If only!</p> <p>Of course there is a real societal issue here -</p> <p>How much is it desirable/acceptable/justifiable to blame individuals for 'wrong' choices?</p> <p>For decades there has been massive encouragement (with substantial incentives) to buy/use cars, consume more (especially manufactured foods with substantial fat/sugar content). </p> <p>Now governments are seeing the disadvantages of obesity/congestion and saying 'YOU should change YOUR behaviour - eat less, take the bus'. </p> <p>Not so much is being done to address (and counter) the forces that (in general) initiated the problems. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253859 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:28:15 +0000 Roibeard 253859@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>You are all being very obtuse.</em></p> <p>Only the posters who ride "normal" bicycles. The recumbent riders have an acute profile.</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253857 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:23:11 +0000 AKen 253857@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They ran a campaign like this down in England - fronted by Anton Du Beke and Dale Winton. I think the slogan was "Bring on the Wall!". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253856 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:19:21 +0000 I were right about that saddle 253856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@fimm</p> <p>An excellent proposal. I concur. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253855 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:12:10 +0000 fimm 253855@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh I see. I have to fit through a gate based on the average 45-year-old woman in 1970.<br /> Mind you, it should be the other way round. If you can't fit through the '1970 Gate' then you are banned from driving and must walk or cycle until you can fit through the Gate. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253854 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:10:26 +0000 chdot 253854@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"You are all being very obtuse"</p> <p>Obtuse is a useful CCE trait. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253853 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:47:18 +0000 I were right about that saddle 253853@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You are all being very obtuse. The '1970 Gate' is based on what you, now, at your current age but discounted back to 1970 to allow for sedentary lifestyles and overeating.</p> <p>The one guy in my primary class everyone thought was fat would barely count as normal weight now. We really have changed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253830 Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:00:32 +0000 fimm 253830@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> If you're wider than you would have been in 1970 you can't use the pavements.</em><br /> I didn't exist in 1970... oh well I'll just have to cycle everywhere. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253828 Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:14:14 +0000 Morningsider 253828@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Approx. £2m a mile to design an upgrade to the trunk road between Huntly and Aberdeen:</p> <p><a href="https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/multi-million-pound-contract-awarded-for-a96-dualling/" rel="nofollow">https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/multi-million-pound-contract-awarded-for-a96-dualling/</a></p> <p>This £50m design contract could easily pay for the construction of a complete Edinburgh cycle superhighway network. Still, Edinburgh might win the next 15 years worth of Community Links + competitions... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253689 Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:50:28 +0000 dougal 253689@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe someone needs to promote the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape">Ape</a> here as the alternative to the White Van? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253687 Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:42:21 +0000 AKen 253687@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I also like the silhouette gate idea for pedestrians. If you're wider than you would have been in 1970 you can't use the pavements.</em></p> <p>I was 2 in 1970. I'm never going to fit through that now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253648 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 18:34:49 +0000 crowriver 253648@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"cue traffic chaos"</p> <p>Ahem. It's MAYHEM these days, ye ken. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253631 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 14:41:27 +0000 I were right about that saddle 253631@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I also like the silhouette gate idea for pedestrians. If you're wider than you would have been in 1970 you can't use the pavements. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253628 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 14:07:34 +0000 gembo 253628@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ed1 also think th mini-shaped gates is good idea. Imagine if that happened - cue traffic chaos </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253626 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 13:24:48 +0000 crowriver 253626@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I do like the idea of "old mini shaped gates" everywhere"</p> <p>Sounds a bit like the "old BMX" shaped gates/chicanes dotted around the UK's cycle path network. Any bike longer or wider cannot get through... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253625 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 13:18:33 +0000 neddie 253625@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ed1 - I do like the idea of "old mini shaped gates" everywhere </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253624 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 13:11:39 +0000 Ed1 253624@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well there may be more friverlous journeys yes with a wider road I supose it should have been widened but made an offical secrete so no one would know. A car could be wide but small and with a small engine and pay little tax. A new mini look as wide as an old land cruiser a new festa wider than a old seria cars with small names have been getting wide. The council should have a gate with an old mini shaped gap that they close at peak times and old cars that fit through the old mini shaped gate allowed to drive through wide cars banned at peak time </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253620 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 10:59:31 +0000 chdot 253620@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe 'don't drive, it just gives money to the Government' might appeal to some... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253619 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 10:54:40 +0000 steveo 253619@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Cars should be taxed by width, height, weight and engine capacity in urban areas anyway. </em></p> <p>But then they already are, big bulky, heavy vehicles with poor aerodynamics such as the current craze for s(udo)uv's, have terrible fuel economy compared to a micro and as everyone knows the bulk of fuel is tax. </p> <p>IMO more tax isn't the answer. Far more dramatic action might start to change behaviour but otherwise people who can afford to run these large vehicles will simply write off the tax a the cost of comfort or whatever excuse they currently use for not getting the likely far cheaper bus. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14793&page=2#post-253616 Sun, 25 Jun 2017 09:44:50 +0000 gembo 253616@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cars should be taxed by width, height, weight and engine capacity in urban areas anyway. My commute if on main road is past a static stream of very wide, very tall, big engined four tonne Chelsea tractors. All with only one occupant. Drivers should have to pay to drive a single occupant vehicle into Edinburgh.</p> <p>Fiat 500, Smart cars. And those tiny daihatsu sports cars take up about half the space and only have two seats. </p> <p>These should be the only cars allowed into Edinburgh, well ok, minis too (if they are actually small). </p>