http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Executive Director – Place Salary: £145,248" en Fri, 22 May 2026 04:54:59 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912&page=2#post-190667 Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:25:37 +0000 kaputnik 190667@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/health/council-chief-told-to-take-leave-amid-overspend-1-3797752" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/health/council-chief-told-to-take-leave-amid-overspend-1-3797752</a></p> <p><em>A SENIOR council official charged with integrating health and social care services in the city has agreed to take time off from work amid concern of overspending in his department.</p> <p>Peter Gabbitas, the council’s director of health and social care, who is believed to earn around £120,000 a year, has gone on annual leave with 
junior officials being appointed on an interim basis to cover.</em></p> <p><em>One council source said they believed Mr Gabbitas would be offered a pay-off to leave his role, adding: “I don’t think Peter will be coming back to the council in any capacity.”</em></p> <p>Underperforming and handsomely remunerated? Why not take a few weeks of paid leave and then get a handsome pay-off for your sterling efforts in not actually being able to do what you were paid to do.</p> <p>If I don't perform in my job, I get stuck on an action contract, if I don't pull myself together, I get demoted or dismissed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912&page=2#post-190137 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:39:02 +0000 Morningsider 190137@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The thing about a senior public sector role is that the buck never truly stops with you - the big decisions are the responsibility of the politicians. Your job is to advise and deliver their wishes, within financial and legal constraints.</p> <p>There used to be a trade off between public and private sector work, at a professional level at least. Public sector workers had lower pay but decent pensions and security of employment. Private sector workers had higher pay but less security.</p> <p>Nowadays, senior public sector officers get high pay and job security, mid-ranks get average pay and less security, the lowest ranks get privatised and employed by cowboys. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912&page=2#post-190131 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:24:29 +0000 steveo 190131@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>where does the buck stop? Three people with responsibility means no one has responsibility and nothing is ever done. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912&page=2#post-190129 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:10:51 +0000 slowcoach 190129@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I know there should only be a limited number of footballers on the pitch at once, but for a Council or a bank would it be better to employ 3 people at £45,000 rather than one at £145,000? Who would do the most work or make the best the decisions? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190128 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:07:28 +0000 chdot 190128@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Meanwhile in Westminster -</p> <p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/04/david-cameron-to-write-to-ipsa-over-mps-pay-rise" rel="nofollow">http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/04/david-cameron-to-write-to-ipsa-over-mps-pay-rise</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190126 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:05:55 +0000 Greenroofer 190126@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@newtoit whether or not you work in the same company as kaputnik, I bet that you,him and me all find that the place we work is very similar to where Dilbert works. All big companies are the same and Dilbert has them nailed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190122 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:42:01 +0000 amir 190122@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Following on from Baldcyclist and newtoit, with regard to markets (which don't always/usually work perfectly), it's a little complex. It not only depends on the number of people "able" and willing to do a role, but the ability and willingness of the employer to pay rates. There is a strong degree of interdependency of course. That's why footballers and bankers get paid so much compared to say top doctors or scientists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190121 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:40:57 +0000 newtoit 190121@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Kaputnik:<br /> "The way it works in out non-car selling company (at my middlingly-lowly grade anyway) is that you don't even get considered for any results-driven pay until you have exceeded all results targets, so the 499-car seller and the 50-car seller get the same. If you make it to 501 cars you might get considered for something at which point they tell you there's not much to go around but thanks for the effort."</p> <p>Wow, do we work in the same place?! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190120 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:33:01 +0000 kaputnik 190120@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>f I appraised someone as under-performing I would still generally expect to give them some of their results-dependent pay. Otherwise, someone who has a target to sell 500 cars but only sells 499 would get the same pay as someone who sold only 50 cars - as both "under performed" and lost their bonus?</em></p> <p>The way it works in out non-car selling company (at my middlingly-lowly grade anyway) is that you don't even get considered for any results-driven pay until you have exceeded all results targets, so the 499-car seller and the 50-car seller get the same. If you make it to 501 cars you might get considered for something at which point they tell you there's not much to go around but thanks for the effort.</p> <p>So you can try hard, meet and/or exceed your performance targets and still end up getting the same at the end of the day as the free-wheeler at the other end of the bank of desks who does the absolute bare minimum to ensure they don't get the sack. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190116 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:27:28 +0000 Min 190116@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>There are only a limited number of senior posts. Not everyone capable of doing them is going to get one of these scarce jobs. </em></p> <p>And yet the claim is that there are so few suitable applicants that they have to pay massive salaries and bonuses just to get anyone, whether capable or not. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190112 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:16:32 +0000 PS 190112@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>There are only a limited number of senior posts. Not everyone capable of doing them is going to get one of these scarce jobs</em></p> <p>Or want one of them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190110 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:12:19 +0000 newtoit 190110@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Damn I wrote far too much.</p> <p><strong>TLDR</strong><br /> A combination of what Baldcyclist and Dave said. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190109 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:09:29 +0000 newtoit 190109@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Remuneration should be commensurate with the knowledge, skill and level of experience required (and delivered). Those criteria determine the scarcity of alternative candidates, and therefore the difficulty of replacing an incumbent. The more difficult to replace someone is, the more they would get paid to try and stop them leaving.</p> <p>Now, that is the theory but in practice that's not always the case. Plenty of people leave to go into jobs with lower pay but have a better quality of life, shorter commute, better company culture etc etc. </p> <p>However another factor has to be accountability. As a junior member of staff you have less accountability than as a director etc. They ultimately take responsibility at a much higher level and <u>should</u> carry the can for failure. As a result of the responsibility and accountability that goes with it there is a higher level of risk to the individual's circumstances so it follows that higher pay is required. The issue seems to be that the accountability often just is not there.</p> <p>Salary as an indication of ability? To an extent, yes. But also as an indication of political savvy, networking, bullshutting, negotiating ability and of course, experience. Remember some people don't necessarily want to climb the ladder, for example somebody at a legal firm may just want to be a good property lawyer, but not be a good salesperson. They therefore may not climb the latter to the top echelons despite being a very good lawyer. They may not get the megabucks for bringing in business, but they are doing something they are good at and enjoy.</p> <p>In terms of public v private sector, it's very hard to compare. It would be very clichéd to say they attract a different sort of person, but in my experience you do encounter differences although the same is true even within the private sector. The argument could be made that a council executive has much less accountability than, say, a director of a FTSE 100 bank. Also there is the case that a public body is likely to want somebody with public sector knowledge, who is well versed in the ways of the council - they would promote within. Therefore it is known what would be a reasonable expectation to get the (possibly already decided) candidate they want. Whereas a large company trying to attract somebody with good knowledge of international cooperation, regulation etc will be coming from a global marketplace with more competition. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190108 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:08:03 +0000 Baldcyclist 190108@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Isn't salary driven by market, rather than personal attributes?</p> <p>The £145K Executive Director will attract a person of 'International bla bla status', in the same manor as a CIO of a private company.</p> <p>I suspect that private, and public sector pay is fairly similar in scale and aligned the 'market value' of specific roles, until you get to senior level where public sector pay is capped.</p> <p>A 'jobbing' joiner, or IT professional, or accountant will earn roughly similar salaries in either domain... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190107 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:06:44 +0000 Dave 190107@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I noticed an article on the BBC yesterday about how bosses still get given enormous bonuses even when they are rubbish.</em></p> <p>With us, your pay consists of two parts, a fixed salary and a results-dependent bit ("bonus") which combined in theory make a competitive package versus A.N.Other company.</p> <p>If I appraised someone as under-performing I would still generally expect to give them some of their results-dependent pay. Otherwise, someone who has a target to sell 500 cars but only sells 499 would get the same pay as someone who sold only 50 cars - as both "under performed" and lost their bonus?</p> <p>* we don't actually sell cars.</p> <p>The article carefully doesn't say what the difference is between under-performing and over-performing managers' pay. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190106 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:05:51 +0000 Morningsider 190106@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In my experience of professional life, most people could easily work in higher managerial roles to the standard of the people currently in post. The fact they don't may simply be down to the job never becoming available, choice, bad luck, lack of contacts, a face that doesn't fit and so on.</p> <p>The alternative is that these senior managers only employ complete incompetents who are incapable of learning new skills. </p> <p>There are only a limited number of senior posts. Not everyone capable of doing them is going to get one of these scarce jobs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190104 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 11:54:23 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 190104@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave, a salary as an <em>indicator</em> to how good someone is at a job <em>is</em> nonsense, you've gone all apple and pears. Just because it's not an indicator doesn't mean in your organisation that the wrong people have been put into those senior, more highly paid, positions. </p> <p>But as a general statement 'if you're highly paid then you must be brilliant' <em>is</em> nonsense. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190103 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 11:52:12 +0000 amir 190103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The CMI said that companies are finding it increasingly difficult to find, recruit and hold on to staff. And it is this skills shortage that could be forcing up wages and bonuses, economists believe."</p> <p>Mmm </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190101 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 11:46:56 +0000 Min 190101@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed you could.</p> <p>I noticed an article on the BBC yesterday about how bosses still get given enormous bonuses even when they are rubbish.</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32985637" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32985637</a></p> <p>The excuse, as always is that it is difficult to find the talent etc. They clearly have a different definition of the word "talent" to most normal people </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190094 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 11:23:38 +0000 Dave 190094@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>In short, salary as an indicator of how good someone is at a job? Nonsense.</em></p> <p>To think that all this time we've been hiring senior staff at a premium to junior staff... we could have saved a packet if we'd only realised! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190085 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:54:04 +0000 PS 190085@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Whereas arguably those who are paid less well in the pubic sector are doing it for other reasons (work/life balance, or because they love what they do, or because the public sector is seen more as a 'helping' sector) which means their focus is less on making money (though business speak is still rife).</em></p> <p>This applies in the private sector too - a lot of very competent people stay at lower management levels (as opposed to pushing for CEO/partner positions] because they prefer doing the actual work/project delivery, like the work/life balance that gives them and do not want to deal with the corporate management headaches and politics that you tend to get in the upper, highly-paid echelons (and indeed the types of folks whom you tend to meet at those rarefied heights). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190083 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:50:48 +0000 chdot 190083@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"It's a skill, certainly, but doesn't make them 'better'."</p> <p>More importantly - from an employer's part of view - does it make the <em>company</em> better - if only in a 'more profitable' sense.</p> <p>Might involve keeping the staff happy/motivated rather than scared. </p> <p>Could also be important to minimise financial and reputational risks.</p> <p>Not <em>just</em> thinking of banking/finance or any <em>particular</em> company... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190081 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:45:20 +0000 steveo 190081@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Has being public spirited and motivated by service rather than huge financial reward make them any better?</p> <p>Edinburgh has shown in so many instances that <em>relatively</em> low pay and doing it for one own reasons hasn't attracted competence, trams, statuary notices, transport in general. </p> <p>Perhaps trying a ludicrous salary and really holding them to account (unlike banking directors fir example) might be worth a try. I doubt it mind... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190076 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:17:02 +0000 kaputnik 190076@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I suppose it depends if people are driven solely by the desire to earn very large amounts of money in the public sector or huge amounts in the private sector. Perhaps the differential is a good thing; encourages those driven by more than just financial gain but also by public service.</p> <p>I know that's most likely wishful thinking though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190075 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:15:20 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 190075@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In my experience (primarily private sector) high pay does not necessarily equate to capability, and the correlation is overstated (IMO). Some of the most competent, capable and effective individuals I've had the pleasure of working with were very much in the lower end of the pay spectrum, but were essentially too nice.</p> <p>The private sector does encourage a different type of mindset, and sometimes (not necessarily all the time) this simply encourages people who are good at 'playing the game'. They can delegate well, they can talk the talk, know the right phrases, dodge bullets. It's a skill, certainly, but doesn't make them 'better'.</p> <p>Whereas arguably those who are paid less well in the pubic sector are doing it for other reasons (work/life balance, or because they love what they do, or because the public sector is seen more as a 'helping' sector) which means their focus is less on making money (though business speak is still rife). Arguably (arguably, <em>arguably</em>) having someone who wants to do the actual job makes them more competent despite that lower pay than someone highly paid but just about keeping hold of the greasy pole by having to do all sorts of things outwith their actual job.</p> <p>Of course there <em>are</em> high and low paid people in all sectors who are both excellent and useless. </p> <p>In short, salary as an indicator of how good someone is at a job? Nonsense. </p> <p>Public sector paying more would attract execs from the private sector? I actually seriously doubt it, unless there's a coincidental kudos that also comes from it, which even if highly paid, I doubt the public sector would manage, compared to being able to say you're the chief exec of some sexy company. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190072 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:02:49 +0000 Dave 190072@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm not going to try and defend executive pay... but just because we think the private sector pays too well doesn't make it less of a problem (that that qualified applicants would have to take a huge pay cut to go into the public sector). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190071 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:01:45 +0000 Cyclingmollie 190071@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://uk.businessinsider.com/llodys-royal-bank-of-scotland-government-share-sale-loss-2015-5">UK taxpayers could lose £13.5 billion on the Royal Bank of Scotland bailout</a>. That makes the bankers' wages look modest. They're obviously doing a good job. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190069 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:50:24 +0000 kaputnik 190069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Stupidly high pay certainly doesn't seem to make them any less likely to be greedy and corrupt.<br /> </em></p> <p>Indeed. Fred Goodwin was a very highly paid man. As is (was) every rate-rigging trader in the City of London. I think there's definitely a big difference in having a talent for earning big money and actually being capable and competent in a given job. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190064 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:27:29 +0000 Min 190064@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stupidly high pay certainly doesn't seem to make them any less likely to be greedy and corrupt. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14912#post-190061 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:22:21 +0000 amir 190061@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"We often bemoan the ineffectiveness of the council. Is it partly down to a failure to attract the best talent? "</p> <p>I am not sure but the public sector does attract a different sort of person (in a good way).</p> <p>The private sector distorts the idea of reward far beyond that of the public sector - I personally am not sure that it's healthy. </p>