http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Suggestions for other pedestrianised spaces en Fri, 22 May 2026 04:01:33 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195780 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:53:41 +0000 chdot 195780@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://flic.kr/p/xggSUD"><img src="https://farm1.staticflickr.com/300/20519905181_3ed949a842.jpg"></a></p> <p>Once St. S. St. was a hip (perhaps hippy) shopping 'destination' (before that word was in commercial use!).</p> <p>Would be <em>so</em> much better without cars - but wot about the residents... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195779 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:50:26 +0000 chdot 195779@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Charles St. looking south to George Sq. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195775 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:43:53 +0000 ih 195775@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot What road is your latest photo taken on please? I just can't make it out! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195773 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:43:06 +0000 cc 195773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They're there this week at least, and we appear to be in Peak F Period just now </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195766 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:25:39 +0000 chdot 195766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ cc are those barriers expected to be there for 4 weeks or just for get in/out? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195764 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:21:54 +0000 cc 195764@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And so convenient when you need to cross that road! Grrrrrr</p> <p>PS in the days/weeks before and after The F Period - what you might call the mantling and dismantling time - it's thick with HGVs, with vans weaving in and out of them at high speed, or trying to.</p> <p>Yes, it would be wonderful if it were traffic free. As it is though it often has lorries and vans parked totally on the pavement, even outside The F Period. Hence the barriers?<br /> Now if only those barriers could be redesigned to allow for people travelling east-west as well as north-south... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195714 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 22:52:38 +0000 chdot 195714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice bit of car-free road -</p> <p><a href="https://flic.kr/p/wYeFHp"><img src="https://farm1.staticflickr.com/435/20327096869_e3c95827e6.jpg"></a></p> <p>Oh, pedestrian-free too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195612 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:26:28 +0000 cc 195612@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also, Holyrood Park; The Meadows; Bruntsfield Links; all the parks. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195601 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:45:37 +0000 wingpig 195601@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It should be within the realms of current computable possibility to present a computer with a map of a city where the population-per-door is encoded alongside road-width/turn-radius and so on and have it devise a road-direction and permeability plan to maximise access for the most people in the most rat-run-minimising way, closing off street-ends and limiting junction-direction-choice and so on to stop the wrong roads becoming de facto arteries, just to see what it looks like compared to the half-evolved/half-coerced layout we currently have. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195596 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:24:05 +0000 neddie 195596@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some clever software dude/dude-ess needs to make a version of SimCity that is not geared toward the grid-like and car-centric American idea of a city. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195594 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:17:55 +0000 fimm 195594@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ha. If you're going to be radical, why not be properly radical? ;-)<br /> I would like to actually make a map and have a proper speculate about what something like that would look like, sometime. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195589 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:49:40 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 195589@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed. Utopia is a nice place to visit :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195584 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:46:27 +0000 neddie 195584@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What fimm said </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195572 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:56:52 +0000 fimm 195572@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The whole of the city centre. Princes Street, George Street, Lothian Road, Leith Street. You want to drive from Leith to Brunstfield? Go to the bypass, go round, come back in again. Or cycle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195557 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:43:43 +0000 Fountainbridge 195557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anybody noticed if these other pedestranised city's have a "grid" street pattern or are they totally unplanned as per Edinburgh?</p> <p>Close a street in Glasgow there's plenty ways round. Close a street in Edinburgh there probably isn't an way way round.</p> <p>In 2013 there was a plan to totally reorganise the streets around tollcross and Fountainbridge. Not sure what happened to it but that would have allowed more pedestrian space.<br /> <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/massive-city-centre-traffic-shake-up-approved-1-2154163" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/massive-city-centre-traffic-shake-up-approved-1-2154163</a></p> <p>New suggestion</p> <p>Niddry Street or Blair Street. both are same one way direction from approximately the same place.</p> <p>Cockburn Street - Jeffery Street being an easy diversion route </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195509 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:56:10 +0000 chdot 195509@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, but "numbers", "evidence"? - UK politicians (mostly) aren't brave enough to just do it because 'it seems to work in other places'. </p> <p>Even the footfall and 'how did you get here' stats for George Street aren't enough to get <em>that</em> pedestrianised! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195505 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:45:00 +0000 Kim 195505@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.uitp.org/news/where-car-no-longer-king">A growing number of European cities are kicking cars to the curb</a>. Loads of other evidence on the internet... ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195502 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:38:37 +0000 cc 195502@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@WC: interesting, but as you say, what about Glasgow - Sauchiehall Street, Buchanan Street, Argyle Street for instance - they've got to count as at least one major pedestrianised area if not two or three. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195483 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:25:42 +0000 PS 195483@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>thoughts on why the Scandinavians and Dutch are so far down?</em></p> <p>I suspect cycling/pedestrian culture is one explanation. Also, street design - medieval roads are narrow and the streets are designed (brick paving, no pavement, little if any facilitation of driving) to suggest that they are for people rather than vehicles. And purposely using one-way streets/no entries to make driving across the centre of town the sort of thing that only an idiot would do.</p> <p>As a result, the centres of, eg, Utrecht, Bruges, etc <em>feel</em> pedestrianised even when they aren't. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195473 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:40:26 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 195473@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No. of (major) car free areas by country league table (from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car-free_places">Wiki</a>) - for reference Edinubrgh is listed with the Royal Mile stretch and Rose Street, which combined counts as major) - thoughts on why the Scandinavians and Dutch are so far down? Just cycling culture is better so no need?:</p> <p><strong>60</strong><br /> US of A</p> <p><strong>30</strong><br /> France</p> <p><strong>26</strong><br /> Switzerland</p> <p><strong>22</strong><br /> Germany</p> <p><strong>20</strong><br /> Italy</p> <p><strong>16</strong><br /> Canada</p> <p><strong>15</strong><br /> Spain</p> <p><strong>14</strong><br /> UK (Scotland 1, though I'm starting to suspect this list cos what about Glasgow?)</p> <p><strong>13</strong><br /> Poland<br /> Australia</p> <p><strong>9</strong><br /> Portugal<br /> Argentina</p> <p><strong>8</strong><br /> Netherlands</p> <p><strong>7</strong><br /> Greece</p> <p><strong>6</strong><br /> Belgium<br /> Croatia<br /> Mexico</p> <p><strong>5</strong><br /> Austria<br /> Russia<br /> Sweden</p> <p><strong>4</strong><br /> Brazil</p> <p><strong>3</strong><br /> Denmark</p> <p><strong>2</strong><br /> Bulgaria<br /> Finland<br /> Hungary</p> <p><strong>1</strong><br /> Chile<br /> Colombia </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195469 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:32:30 +0000 chdot 195469@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Google Satellite shows old view, StreetView new!</p> <p><a href="http://goo.gl/maps/RjQln" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/maps/RjQln</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195463 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:25:02 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 195463@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, not walked it since that work, must try it (always annoyed me). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271&page=2#post-195460 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:20:05 +0000 paulmilne 195460@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, yes, the sight lines from Sciennes onto Summerhall were vastly improved by that work. Corner radii still too generous, though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195456 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:13:37 +0000 chdot 195456@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it is costing council tax payers a fortune"</p> <p>Yes, are there good examples of detailed costings to point to? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195452 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:02:22 +0000 Kim 195452@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If you look at equivalent sized cities on the mainland of Europe, an increasing number of them are fully pedestrianising their centres. These cities are easy to spot, they are the ones that are thriving, they are saving money by NOT paying large subsidies to private motorists. There are good financial reasons for keeping cars out of the city, it is costing council tax payers a fortune. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195451 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:01:41 +0000 chdot 195451@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the radii on those corners encourage fast cornering"</p> <p>Actually if you (both) mean Sciennes (that road's name) than the kerbs and island were altered fairly recently. (Pic shows revised layout.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195448 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:31:27 +0000 paulmilne 195448@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Wilmington's Cow, yes, the radii on those corners encourage fast cornering. All in all it's a guddle, for cars, pedestrians, and cyclists alike. And the classic bad design of a cycle lane between two lanes of traffic ... sigh. Easier ways to avoid left hooks. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195445 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:12:28 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 195445@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As a pedestrian crossing the two side roads on the left there is a nightmare too - no sightlines, and people driving too quickly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195444 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:07:06 +0000 paulmilne 195444@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, re your photo, perfect example of a junction with high levels of cycle use that is crying out for hard cycling infrastructure/segregated lanes and waiting areas / left turn at all times/all ways green scramble phase for bikes. Plenty of room for all that. I walk across it every day. Far too much room for cars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15271#post-195443 Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:03:37 +0000 paulmilne 195443@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've advocated closing that length of road (University/Potterow/Buccleuch Street/Hope Pk Terrace/SummerHall/Cswyside/Ratcliffe Terr) to through traffic for some time now. It would need local access though, but the carriageway is too wide. it would benefit from narrowing the carriageway and widening the pavements in addition to through traffic closure. </p>