http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Grammatical errors that great en Sun, 31 May 2026 23:12:15 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195731 Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:47:08 +0000 Roibeard 195731@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As I understand it "you" is already plural - "thou" is the singular! But we really do need a you (pl) in English, so I will resort to an (norn-)ironic "youse" or pedantically "you plural".</p> <p>In terms of teaching English, I think the benefit is in learning what's localised and what is standardised, so that one can modify vocabulary and usage to aid communication. That is, to speak so that people understand! If you don't know that something is parochial, then you can lose people or at the least distract them from the message. Or one can add flavour, variety or catch people's attention with a well placed local alternative!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195687 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 15:42:24 +0000 The Boy 195687@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've always written it as 'yous' rather than 'youse' (you is singular so add an s to pluralise, innit), though have seen both.</p> <p>'Use', though, is madness regardless of context. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195686 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 15:20:56 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 195686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"we definitely "got wrong" if we misbehaved."</p> <p>Yay! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195684 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 15:17:09 +0000 fimm 195684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Quite sure. He starts an email to a group of people "Folk's". (He really wants to start it "Gent's" but I cramp his style...)</p> <p>I haven't come across "how" for "who" but my parents are from Lanark and Kelso and I grew up in England - in southern Northumberland/just north of Newcastle where we definitely "got wrong" if we misbehaved. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195678 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:42:10 +0000 Pocopiglet 195678@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Through ben' is still in use in our family as is 'come ben' and 'ben the house' . A lot of my friends also use the phrases. I spent 15 years in Aberdeen and it was in common usage up there and was particularly freely used by the farming community. However, I learned the phrase when I was young and lived in the Falkirk area. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195666 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:55:31 +0000 chdot 195666@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Youse sure hes' rong? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195665 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:54:11 +0000 chdot 195665@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195663 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:47:24 +0000 fimm 195663@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Love the poem.</p> <p>Am I allowed to rant about my line manager who insists on writing "folk's" instead of "folks"? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195662 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:43:37 +0000 steveo 195662@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Through ben" thats one that seems to have died with a generation. My Granny also used it to refer to the kitchen or the back room, context was everything. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195660 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:42:42 +0000 steveo 195660@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My Geordie boss is partial to youse often conflating singular and plural, this can cause great confusion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195659 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:40:26 +0000 threefromleith 195659@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot And written down as "use" rather than "youse" :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195658 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:39:00 +0000 chdot 195658@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I was referring to it being used in formal business writing at work!"</p> <p>Ah!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195657 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:38:33 +0000 threefromleith 195657@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Since my granny died in the late 80s, I've never heard or seen the phrase "Through ben" used (except in Oor Wullie books).</p> <p>'Ben' usually referred to a back room in the house, though she did also use it when referring to something being in the kitchen when we were sitting right outside it in her living-room. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=3#post-195656 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:36:42 +0000 dougal 195656@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aye 'youse' is standard Scots second person plural I believe. I'm heartened to see that despite disapproval people will carry on speaking how their community speaks. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195655 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:36:30 +0000 chdot 195655@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm told -</p> <p>'Youse is more accepted in Irish English than Scottish English' </p> <p>Can be a useful plural. </p> <p><a href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/learner/youse" rel="nofollow">http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/learner/youse</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195654 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:34:57 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 195654@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I love this forum.</p> <p>Or indeed, I love youse guys. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195653 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:34:45 +0000 threefromleith 195653@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@The Boy - no problem with people saying "Yous" or "Youse", but I was referring to it being used in formal business writing at work (where it's written as 'use')! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195652 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:33:55 +0000 kaputnik 195652@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My great aunt spoke a fairly-close-to-Scots sort of a dialect of English and would use "yin" and "yince". She was of rural Midlothian and the West Coast incomers on my Gran's side would use "wan" and "wance".</p> <p>"Youse" as a plural of you seems fairly endemic inwith central belters. A colleague from Norniron also used to use youse. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195651 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:28:36 +0000 The Boy 195651@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'yous', not 'use'.</p> <p>Fine, imo. Though depending on the company.</p> <p>See also: 'yince' instead of 'once'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195650 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:27:48 +0000 kaputnik 195650@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"How?"</em></p> <p>Also, "How no?" instead of "Why not?" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195647 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:22:02 +0000 threefromleith 195647@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But back on topic - my teeth are set on edge at work by things like:</p> <p>"aswel" for 'as well'<br /> "Myself" for 'me' - eg "Please speak to myself".<br /> "use" for "you" (plural)- "Use need to resolve this issue"<br /> Misuse of "did" and "done" - "Use done a good job" / "I've did a good job".</p> <p>Then there's the random use of apostrophes in lists of plurals:</p> <p>"Apples, orange's, grape's and limes"</p> <p><strong>Arrgghhhhhhh!</strong></p> <p>*and breathe* :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195646 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:13:11 +0000 threefromleith 195646@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I remember much anger when the representative from the SQA, talking about the new Curriculum for Excellence to parents at James Gillespie's, used the phrase "Exemplification will be provided by the practitioner".</p> <p>When asked to say it again, but in plain English, he simply repeated the phrase to much derision from the audience.</p> <p>I believe he meant to say "Teachers will give examples".... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195644 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:07:51 +0000 Nelly 195644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Poor spoken english doesnt really bother me too much, for many pretty clever people its all down to regional variation.</p> <p>However, what really grinds my gears is some of the truly appalling english and grammar following (one presumes) editing and proof reading in magazine adverts - Your/You’re, There/Their/They’re, It’s/Its are some of the usual suspects.</p> <p>Might seem petty, but I have a self imposed a ban on purchasing any product where the advert appears to be written by a two year old. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195643 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:59:16 +0000 Darkerside 195643@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@WC re earlier question on Unspeak. It has a decent chunk on business jargon, but it also includes things like ethnic cleansing not being a synonym for genocide. </p> <p>(The use of cleanse as a verb of cleaning has implications of improvement, religion and purity. In describing acts of genocide with such language, we imply that the actions are justifiable.)</p> <p>The best sentence I read yesterday was a (justified) complaint that a report was overly complex. The sentence read (without irony) "could you verbalise the answer in plain English?" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195642 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:58:11 +0000 Gresham Flyer 195642@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Scottish bank customer: Can I withdraw 500 pounds please?<br /> Bank Clerk: How do you want it?<br /> Scottish bank customer: Because I'm going on holiday. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195641 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:57:15 +0000 dougal 195641@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Linguistics is a really complex and fascinating science. I encourage any interested layman to read <a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/">Language Log</a>, a group blog written by linguists from various fields and the world over (including an Edinburgh Uni grammar guy, Geoff Pullum) which always throws up something interesting.</p> <p>I grew up in East Lothian and 'how?' for Standard English 'why?' was in the local dialect. So, just east coast (from Aberdeen to Dunbar) or all over Scotland? Not sure but I bet someone's researched it.</p> <p>As for teaching grammar - well, we all reach school being able to speak already. By the time you sit down to "learn English" you're a fluent and competent speaker (albeit with a small vocabulary). The question is how much do we need to know to have an introspective knowledge of our language? The difference between a noun/verb/adjective is basic and the kind of thing that is fundamental to using a dictionary. Which is good for essay reading and writing, then later on for learning foreign languages. I haven't much of a clue what a dative or an accusative is nor what a copula is. Do I need this information? It's a bit specialised and too obscure for most people to value.</p> <p>Instead I think emphasis should be made (and there's good work being done on this) that "home tongues" are not wrong and that what you learn in school is just a lingua franca.</p> <p>Kidspoem/Bairnsangs (Liz Lochhead)</p> <p>it wis January<br /> and a gey dreich day<br /> the first day Ah went to the school<br /> so my Mum happed me up in ma<br /> good navy-blue napp coat wi the rid tartan hood<br /> birled a scarf aroon ma neck<br /> pu'ed oan ma pixie an' my pawkies<br /> it wis that bitter<br /> said noo ye'll no starve<br /> gie'd me a wee kiss and a kid-oan skelp oan the bum<br /> and sent me aff across the playground<br /> tae the place Ah'd learn to say<br /> it was January<br /> and a really dismal day<br /> the first day I went to school<br /> so my mother wrapped me up in my<br /> best navy-blue top coat with the red tartan hood,<br /> twirled a scarf around my neck,<br /> pulled on my bobble-hat and mittens<br /> it was so bitterly cold<br /> said now you won't freeze to death<br /> gave me a little kiss and a pretend slap on the bottom<br /> to the place I'd learn to forget to say<br /> it wis January<br /> and a gey dreich day<br /> the first day Ah went to the school<br /> so my Mum happed me up in ma<br /> good navy-blue napp coat wi the rid tartan hood,<br /> birled a scarf aroon ma neck,<br /> pu'ed oan ma pixie an' ma pawkies<br /> it wis that bitter.<br /> Oh saying it was one thing<br /> but when it came to writing it<br /> in black and white<br /> the way it had to be said<br /> was as if you were posh, grown-up, male, English and dead. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195640 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:52:11 +0000 jdanielp 195640@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"I'm going into town."</p> <p>"How?"</p> <p>"By bicycle."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195639 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:48:09 +0000 ih 195639@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I believe that there is no 'right or wrong', and it's the transmission of information that matters. What helps immeasurably though is learning when to use language in a particular way - the context or register. That's the tricky bit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195637 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:42:20 +0000 steveo 195637@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I think the "How?" is short for "How come?</em></p> <p>It doesn't help though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15278&page=2#post-195636 Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:41:13 +0000 steveo 195636@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I used to use "how?" in that context as a youngling and I'm born and bread Edinburger. </p> <p>I think it was beat out of me (figuratively) by my dad who gets unduly annoyed at speak of that ilk. Though swears like a (para) trooper when it suits him. </p>