http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: GSR - 1,500 Housing Estate - Planning 6th Nov Deadline en Tue, 19 May 2026 04:47:35 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-359418 Wed, 06 Apr 2022 12:57:37 +0000 Tulyar 359418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Worth noting that the Ember electric coach services between Edinburgh &amp; Dundee that deliver journey times easily as fast as driving &amp; parking, with the prospect in a few months of not having the added costs of entering the LEZ in Edinburgh and Dundee, now 'serve' Edinburgh Airport but avoid the major time penalty of actually using the cul de sac via the main terminal, and stop at the laybys on the A8 by Gogar Station Road, leaving the option of catching the tram or walking/cycling to the Airport </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-359399 Tue, 05 Apr 2022 17:48:29 +0000 HankChief 359399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Full decision available here</p> <p> <a href="https://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/Document.aspx?id=841302" rel="nofollow">https://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/Document.aspx?id=841302</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-359395 Tue, 05 Apr 2022 11:20:17 +0000 HankChief 359395@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well done to @Greenroofer for his efforts on getting the cycle path built into the conditions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-359394 Tue, 05 Apr 2022 11:18:46 +0000 HankChief 359394@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I got a email from the DPEA this morning and the Scottish Minister's have approved the Garden District site off Gogar Station Road.</p> <p><em><br /> "Scottish Ministers’ Decision<br /> 5. Scottish Ministers have carefully considered all of the evidence presented and the Reporter’s conclusions. For the reasons given below, Scottish Ministers grant planning permission in principle for the proposed development subject to the conditions set out in the annex to this notice. References to paragraphs in the sections below, unless stated otherwise, are to the Reporter’s report (dated 13 January 2020).<br /> "</p> <p>"<br /> 5. No development shall take place on the development site until full details of a<br /> scheme of work for provision of the cycle route to and through the development,<br /> starting north of the M8 overbridge on Gogar Station Road, have been submitted to<br /> and approved by the Council. Those works shall thereafter be implemented in full<br /> and be available for use on or before the occupation of the first residential property within the development hereby approved. These details shall:<br /> a) Include a cycle path heading North East across the field immediately to the North<br /> of the M8 overbridge on Gogar Station Road and connecting with the Eastern end of<br /> the Gogar Station Road spur, near the distribution warehouse and continuing from<br /> there over the railway to the Southern Underpass;<br /> b) Include details of connection points from the new route into the existing cycle<br /> networks to the north and south of the site so as to demonstrate how it will provide a genuine alternative to Gogar Station Road, and beyond that, onto RBS Gogarburn (including the RBS Business School); and<br /> c) Demonstrate that there is control over all land required for the works</p> <p>Reason: In order to ensure that there is a suitable means of cycle access to and<br /> through the development site that provides a genuine alternative to Gogar Station<br /> Road prior to the first occupation of any part of that development."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328909 Sat, 02 May 2020 20:08:01 +0000 wingpig 328909@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Worried it might end up something like NCN1 between Dalmeny and South Queensferry, where the signs and direct-looking path leads to weird residential dead-ends. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328908 Sat, 02 May 2020 19:57:32 +0000 Morningsider 328908@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot - The approval, which is subject to the conclusion of a legal agreement between the developer and the council on issues including affordable housing, transport etc, is for planning permission in principle. This means that many of the detailed elements of the scheme are yet to be agreed.<br /> <a href="http://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/Document.aspx?id=683584"><br /> Condition 5 attached to the approval</a> requires the developer to submit plans for the cycle path to the Council for final approval. The council should be able to insist on a high quality design, certainly something that meets Edinburgh street design guidance - which is actually pretty good. Is this guaranteed to happen? No - but it should. </p> <p>Is there a requirement for consultation on these detailed designs (part of a process known as "approval of matters specified in conditions"). Again, no. These decisions are almost always made by planning officers and without public consultation. The developer could choose to consult, but that would be unusual. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328907 Sat, 02 May 2020 19:21:57 +0000 chdot 328907@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“The problem comes when their definition of an acceptable cycle route meets ours.”</p> <p>Well yes but no. </p> <p><em>Presumably</em> CEC has some sort of say - maybe it’s just in some legislation (and vague with it??)</p> <p>Morningsider will know. </p> <p>Perhaps this is where Spokes comes and helpfully encourages developers to do something iconic and world leading (to go with whatever grand greener is in the various hype messages). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328904 Sat, 02 May 2020 18:13:35 +0000 Morningsider 328904@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>So that is a legal requirement and not in doubt.</blockquote></p> <p>Ah, Greenroofer - let me introduce you to Section 42 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 - "Determination of applications to develop land without compliance with conditions previously attached".</p> <p>If a developer doesn't really fancy complying with a condition, they can apply to the Council have it removed. The usual approach is to wait to the development is at an advanced stage, argue there is some unforseen issue and ask if the Council would be so kind as to remove this onerous burden.</p> <p>Applications aren't always successful, but it is an option. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328895 Sat, 02 May 2020 16:42:10 +0000 Greenroofer 328895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot So the permission they've been granted includes some conditions (which they accepted at the hearing), which includes the building of a cycle route. So that is a legal requirement and not in doubt.</p> <p>The problem comes when their definition of an acceptable cycle route meets ours. We will want X, they will want Y (which will no doubt be cheaper than X). We need to make sure they don't get too much of their own way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328886 Sat, 02 May 2020 13:47:42 +0000 chdot 328886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“so that they don't wriggle out of this commitment”</p> <p>Do you mean ‘legal requirement’ - or has anyone actually accepted the findings? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328885 Sat, 02 May 2020 13:44:00 +0000 Greenroofer 328885@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Frenchy et al. I don't hold out much hope that the rough bit of path that @MediumDave experienced will be improved for the final cycle path between the canal and Gogarburn. The developer, I am sure, will choose to interpret 'continues' as meaning that it follows that route, rather than it is included in what they have to build. I think the Reporter recognised this in the report too.</p> <p>It's entertaining to read that final report and see verbatim cut-and-paste from the submission I wrote three years ago laying out the route and the requirement for it to be usable. I suspect I got crossed off the Murray Estates' Christmas card list around that time...</p> <p>What we need to do now is collectively hold to account Murray Estates and the successor developers, so that they don't wriggle out of this commitment. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328851 Fri, 01 May 2020 15:56:09 +0000 MediumDave 328851@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Inspired by this thread I rode through the southern underpass today while on State Approved Exercise. The surface is indeed exciting.</p> <p>Surely a candidate for a section 75 contribution from the developer to resurface, even if the developer doesn't do it themselves. </p> <p>Spooked a heron fishing in the burn then spent 10 minutes extricating myself from the creepy empty maze that is Edinburgh Park. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=6#post-328848 Fri, 01 May 2020 15:29:23 +0000 gembo 328848@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Frenchy - Exactamundo </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328840 Fri, 01 May 2020 13:08:47 +0000 Frenchy 328840@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo - does this link work? And is it where you mean?</p> <p><a href="https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/caseDetails.do?caseType=Application&amp;keyVal=Q4I1Z8EWG6N00" rel="nofollow">https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/caseDetails.do?caseType=Application&amp;keyVal=Q4I1Z8EWG6N00</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328837 Fri, 01 May 2020 12:49:56 +0000 gembo 328837@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anyone know what the field top of balerno on the A70 bend is all aBOUT. THEY have been up there years landscaping but nowt else. Actually have smashed into their own gate. Stream runs off the site down a70. Has roads now but made of rubble </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328834 Fri, 01 May 2020 11:52:47 +0000 I were right about that saddle 328834@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Buy field, get planning permission, sell development site, trouser cash.</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/andywightman/status/1256171320699686918" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/andywightman/status/1256171320699686918</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328832 Fri, 01 May 2020 11:12:18 +0000 Frenchy 328832@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't parse condition 5a in any way other than "You need to make sure a cycle path is built on the bit of land currently outwith your control." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328830 Fri, 01 May 2020 10:43:13 +0000 HankChief 328830@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Report published </p> <p><a href="https://www.gov.scot/publications/planning-decision-nod-edb-002/" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.scot/publications/planning-decision-nod-edb-002/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328803 Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:10:25 +0000 HankChief 328803@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmmm. Now reading the rest of the 112page report (which I assume will be put on the DPEA website shortly) and we now get this comment by the Reporter about the rough track</p> <p><em>"5.72 In regard to active travel routes, I have noted in the previous chapter that the site is well located to take advantage of nearby pedestrian and cycle routes. The proposal would provide for linkages to those routes, and would include the provision of a north-south active travel route through the site. Part of that route outwith the site, linking to Gogar Station Road, is not in the applicant’s control, meaning that there is no certainty that its surface could be improved. In my experience that would not deter walkers and some cyclists. For others there would remain the option of cycling along Gogar Station Road."</em></p> <p>That seems at odds with the condition in 5a above </p> <p>I'm going to take "continuing" in this condition to mean they have to make the path of continuous quality.</p> <p><em>"connecting with the Eastern end of the Gogar Station Road spur, near the distribution warehouse and <strong>continuing</strong> from there over the railway to the Southern Underpass;"</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328776 Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:04:03 +0000 HankChief 328776@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I should say a big thank you to @greenroofer &amp; Spokes for sticking with this campaign over the years and getting significant concessions for Active Travel. Bravo. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328775 Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:45:05 +0000 HankChief 328775@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't see anything on the widening of GSR's Pavement South from Gogarburn which is a shame... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328769 Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:06:57 +0000 HankChief 328769@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is good as it makes them take control of the rough track to the Southern underpass which they don't currently own.</p> <p><em><br /> 5. No development shall take place on the development site until full details of a scheme of work for provision of the cycle route to and through the development, starting north of the M8 overbridge on Gogar Station Road, have been submitted to and approved by the Council. Those works shall thereafter be implemented in full and be available for use on or<br /> before the occupation of the first residential property within the development herebyapproved. These details shall:</p> <p>a) Include a cycle path heading North East across the field immediately to the North of the M8 overbridge on Gogar Station Road and connecting with the Eastern end of the Gogar Station Road spur, near the distribution warehouse and continuing from there over the railway to the Southern Underpass;</p> <p>b) Include details of connection points from the new route into the existing cycle networks to the north and south of the site so as to demonstrate how it will provide a genuine alternative<br /> to Gogar Station Road, and beyond that, onto RBS Gogarburn (including the RBS Business School); and</p> <p>c) Demonstrate that there is control over all land required for the works</p> <p>Reason: In order to ensure that there is a suitable means of cycle access to and through the development site that provides a genuine alternative to Gogar Station Road prior to the first occupation of any part of that development.</em>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-328765 Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:48:18 +0000 HankChief 328765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It has been approved according to the reporters Report...</p> <p>No extra overbridge of the A8 :-(</p> <p>"8.8 I note that the conditions agreed between the applicant and the council require further investigation of the Lesser Millburn, and that further details of the north-south cycle route are required. I have concluded in Chapter 5 that an active travel overbridge would not<br /> be a reasonable requirement, and accordingly such a condition would not meet the test of necessity or reasonableness." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-318063 Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:06:39 +0000 HankChief 318063@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"*Case Update 21 October 2019* The report for this case was submitted to Scottish Ministers on 6 February 2019. The application has been returned to DPEA for further process and the case will be re-opened with a view to providing a further recommendation to Ministers. The re-opening of the case will be focused on housing land supply, including up to date information published through the City of Edinburgh Council housing land audit. The appointed reporter has invited further submissions from key parties."</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/CaseDetails.aspx?id=117562" rel="nofollow">http://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/CaseDetails.aspx?id=117562</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-287045 Mon, 16 Jul 2018 21:16:50 +0000 HankChief 287045@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"the immediate priorities for the business are our sites in West Edinburgh – the Edinburgh Garden District and the International Business Gateway.</p> <p>The West of Edinburgh is a strategically important development area for the whole Scottish economy given the importance of the city, the airport, the university, and the pressing need for quality homes. We are working with partners to secure support for a very significant investment in housing, commercial property, and civic amenity and enhancement."</p> <p></em></p> <p><a href="https://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2018/07/murray-capital-group-report-steady-growth/" rel="nofollow">https://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2018/07/murray-capital-group-report-steady-growth/</a></p> <p>As an aside: we are due to hear this month* whether the Garden District is going ahead or not...</p> <p>*it has already been put back several times so who knows... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-274978 Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:23:21 +0000 chdot 274978@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>But plans may now be given the go-ahead when they are presented to ministers later this month after SASA reached an agreement with Murray Estates in October 2017.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/d-day-as-msps-decide-on-david-murray-garden-district-plan-1-4687412" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/d-day-as-msps-decide-on-david-murray-garden-district-plan-1-4687412</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-274933 Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:35:24 +0000 HankChief 274933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15987591.Sir_David_Murray__39_s___450m_Edinburgh_village_plan_called_in_by_Ministers/?ref=appshr" rel="nofollow">http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15987591.Sir_David_Murray__39_s___450m_Edinburgh_village_plan_called_in_by_Ministers/?ref=appshr</a></p> <p>"<em>Royal Bank of Scotland, which owns the adjacent Gogarburn Campus, is supportive of the development after Murray Estates agreed to minimise disruption to the 6000 people who work at the bank’s HQ.</p> <p>It paves the way for ministers to consider a proposal which carries the substantial support of city councillors and is set to deliver up to 1,350 new homes of various types, including 330 much needed affordable homes.</em>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-222333 Tue, 07 Jun 2016 17:55:57 +0000 I were right about that saddle 222333@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo</p> <p>THAT IS EXACTLY THE WORLD WE LIVE IN. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-222326 Tue, 07 Jun 2016 17:05:47 +0000 gembo 222326@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Imagine a world of Nicola sturgeon clones spreading up railway and water corridors </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15631&page=5#post-222285 Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:56:40 +0000 I were right about that saddle 222285@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Vote Leave for proper British Knotweed. </p>