http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: This weekend's carnage en Sun, 31 May 2026 22:28:55 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204108 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 22:57:56 +0000 crowriver 204108@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it isn't just down to the amount of traffic on the roads - other factors are involved (which may be easier to change?"</p> <p>Sure, that's why road deaths are lower than in the 1970s or 1980s, despite an increase in traffic. However I wonder if any significant decrease from this point is possible with current traffic volumes? That is, without a radical change in the way roads are used, especially in urban areas. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204103 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 18:50:42 +0000 slowcoach 204103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver re the GB figures for 12 months to end of June 2015, similar data for Scotland isn't published yet. But from the Police management info it seems as if road deaths in Scotland fell by 3.6% compared with 2% for GB for that period. I don't know if the change is statistically significant though and random change or part of a trend.<br /> the point I was trying to make is that it isn't just down to the amount of traffic on the roads - other factors are involved (which may be easier to change?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204099 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 16:54:03 +0000 Stickman 204099@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yet another. </p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34766792" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34766792</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204073 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 11:54:58 +0000 neddie 204073@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>...but traffic is flowing normally on Gorgie Road</em></p> <p>Ah well, everything's alright then... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204072 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 11:53:02 +0000 Stickman 204072@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/man-struck-by-bin-lorry-in-gorgie-1-3941455" rel="nofollow">http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/man-struck-by-bin-lorry-in-gorgie-1-3941455</a></p> <p>Just another day on the roads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204068 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 11:03:52 +0000 neddie 204068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>EEN scum have left the comments enabled on another cycling death </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709&page=2#post-204016 Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:01:00 +0000 minus six 204016@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/call-for-traffic-calming-after-brooke-bagley-death-1-3940554#axzz3qpV3en5G">residents have repeatedly raised concerns that motorists driving through the town are not adhering to the 30mph speed limit</a></em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-204014 Sat, 07 Nov 2015 18:47:47 +0000 Stickman 204014@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Two separate incidents in West Calder, days after the 10 year old girl was killed. </p> <p><a href="http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/call-for-traffic-calming-after-brooke-bagley-death-1-3940554" rel="nofollow">http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/call-for-traffic-calming-after-brooke-bagley-death-1-3940554</a></p> <p><em>The village is a mile long – if you drive through ten miles above the speed limit, how much time do you save? A few seconds.</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203999 Sat, 07 Nov 2015 13:54:50 +0000 Stickman 203999@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Two more. </p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34755517" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34755517</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34752606" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34752606</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203946 Fri, 06 Nov 2015 16:20:47 +0000 crowriver 203946@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@slowcoach, those are the GB figures. I was talking about the Scottish figures you linked to earlier. It's possible there has been a decrease over the whole UK, but a further rise or standstill in Scotland. Given that the overall road deaths in Scotland have increased as a percentage of those in England &amp; Wales during the past decade (from approx. 9% to over 11%) I suspect this is likely. :-( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203908 Fri, 06 Nov 2015 13:48:09 +0000 slowcoach 203908@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Min - the accident numbers have been higher in the late afternoon/early evening peak than in the morning peak. While there would probably be more deaths in the mornings, those in support of GMT+1 in winter expect there to be more gains in the late afternoon/early evenings than there would be losses in the mornings. I'm not convinced by either side yet. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203868 Fri, 06 Nov 2015 08:03:44 +0000 gembo 203868@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Soon it will be dark in morning and evening. Well it is at the moment. Dark</p> <p>Any change causes accident spikes - rain, wind, earlier darkness or as min says - darkness early. Morning ( we had wee plastic white helmets with red light bulb on top in early seventies experiment but no actual traffic back then)</p> <p>The series of small holes dug in the ground at the moment also causing chaos. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203866 Fri, 06 Nov 2015 00:09:24 +0000 Min 203866@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I just don't see how that is possible. You don't get any extra light. They would just kill more people in the morning, surely? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203865 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:52:10 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 203865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents estimates that changing to Central European Time, which would give us an extra hour of evening daylight both summer and winter, would save 80 lives and prevent 212 serious injuries each year</em></p> <p>I remember when we didn't put the clocks back. Don't know if there were more accidents or not but I remember the outcry about children going to school in the pitch black. We were all given reflective armbands to wear and my school changed to a 9:30 start. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203864 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:37:53 +0000 slowcoach 203864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/473850/quarterly-estimates-april-to-june-2015.pdf">New provisional figures</a> just out today, suggesting that although traffic has gone up again in year to end June 2015, casualty numbers have come down after the rise in year to end June 2014.<br /> For cyclists there was a decrease but the numbers remain well above the previous average, unlike other groups.</p> <p>What would be an acceptable number of people killed?<br /> See the <a href="https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/tac-campaigns/tac-latest-campaigns#towards-zero">'towards zero'</a> campaign from TAC Victoria, Australia. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203859 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:11:06 +0000 chdot 203859@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents estimates that changing to Central European Time, which would give us an extra hour of evening daylight both summer and winter, would save 80 lives and prevent 212 serious injuries each year </p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/joyce-mcmillan-high-time-we-had-lighter-nights-1-3939111" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/joyce-mcmillan-high-time-we-had-lighter-nights-1-3939111</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203853 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 22:08:28 +0000 crowriver 203853@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hm. Perusing the figures in more detail, there seems to be a close correlation between the economy and traffic levels (vehicle distances travelled). See Table 40. We can observe "peak traffic" around 2006-7, then a decline over a few years to around 2010, then it depends on geographical area, but in most a gradual rise, until by 2014 levels are almost at the peak, but not quite: maybe 2015 is the year where they have reached once again "peak traffic" levels? We shall see.</p> <p>In Edinburgh there is a noticeable spike in traffic levels in 2014: economic recovery coupled with the end of the tram disruption perhaps?</p> <p>Overall the rise in traffic levels would help to explain the overall rise in road deaths compared to 2013. </p> <p>If it carries on like this the only way to better protect pedestrians, cyclists and vulnerable road users will be giving more priority to them, and less to motor vehicles, across the country's roads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203849 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 21:35:27 +0000 crowriver 203849@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So from those data sets it seems road deaths have decreased (on average) between 2004-8 and 20010-14. Except for Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, where they have gone up! Shocking really: a function of increased prosperity and higher car ownership, more lorries trundling inadequate road infrastructure, etc.?</p> <p>Will the various dual carriageways being built in those parts reduce road deaths, or merely increase the amount of traffic and average speeds, leading to more carnage? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203847 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 21:14:16 +0000 crowriver 203847@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"RoSPA often says changing the clock causes extra casualties around this time of year."</p> <p>I'm not surprised. It's suddenly dark during evening peak homeward stampede time, plus as commented in threads passim, driving suddenly seems to get more aggressive as a result. Maybe it will settle down: I hope so! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203834 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 17:19:38 +0000 slowcoach 203834@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>data for 2014 and earlier is available at <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/reported-road-casualties-scotland-2014-datasets">Reported Road Casualties Scotland 2014 - Datasets</a><br /> Tables 6 and 27-29 give data by month and separately by time. Other details are available<br /> RoSPA often says changing the clock causes extra casualties around this time of year. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203819 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 14:04:07 +0000 chdot 203819@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"This weekend seems to have been particularly bad"</p> <p>Is any of this related to the clocks going back?</p> <p>Are there (preferably for Scotland) crash/casualty breakdowns by month - and also time of day? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203791 Thu, 05 Nov 2015 12:09:52 +0000 Stickman 203791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>81 year old woman killed by a taxi. </p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34732523" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34732523</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203675 Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:37:34 +0000 minus six 203675@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Boy of six, seriously injured on Aberdour High St</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-34720665" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-34720665</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203637 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:08:49 +0000 Stickman 203637@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yet another:</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34709603" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34709603</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203613 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:27:12 +0000 Edinburgh Cycle Training 203613@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Another bairn killed</p> <p><a href="http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/greenock/articles/2015/10/29/545981-latest-fatal-greenock-accident-boy-named/" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/greenock/articles/2015/10/29/545981-latest-fatal-greenock-accident-boy-named/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203609 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:41:51 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 203609@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hadn't heard of that one, unhurt - another tragedy:</p> <p><a href="https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/islands/738333/man-charged-with-causing-death-of-vet-by-dangerous-driving/" rel="nofollow">https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/islands/738333/man-charged-with-causing-death-of-vet-by-dangerous-driving/</a></p> <p>Driving a Maserati &amp; accused of failing to provide a sample of breath - hmmm. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203605 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:13:53 +0000 unhurt 203605@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Strathy death is another sentient vehicle I see. </p> <p>There was a vet killed last week on Mull in a two car collision too: <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34667112" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34667112</a> (I saw the P&amp;J paper report thus the vet detail). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203594 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:45:10 +0000 neddie 203594@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Very sad to hear about the girl.</p> <p>Another one that occurred last weekend, not reported until Monday:</p> <p>Driver dead:<br /> <a href="http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34698124" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34698124</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203592 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:30:02 +0000 Stickman 203592@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/boy-10-taken-to-hospital-after-being-hit-by-car-1-3936120" rel="nofollow">http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/boy-10-taken-to-hospital-after-being-hit-by-car-1-3936120</a></p> <p>"...he did not remain at the scene"</p> <p>At what point do people say enough is enough? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15709#post-203583 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:15:18 +0000 minus six 203583@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Extremely sad news.</p> <p>Nothing whatsoever in response from local MSPs or Council chiefs on twitter.</p> <p>The Scottish media's fatalist taboo surrounding safety for vulnerable road users must end. It is sickening. </p>