CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: PoP16 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: PoP16 en Fri, 22 May 2026 01:11:06 +0000 HankChief on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=10#post-219109 Sat, 07 May 2016 07:37:00 +0000 HankChief 219109@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The annual POP inspired song... It's rather good. <a href="https://youtu.be/H1kjxQqWuSY" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/H1kjxQqWuSY</a> gembo on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=10#post-218564 Tue, 03 May 2016 07:39:33 +0000 gembo 218564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @barnton to town So many issues with SNP 1 and 2 but I am guessing from your willingness to ignore the other threads discussing the complexity of local politicians in Edinburgh not toeing party line (roseburn segregated route etc) that there would be little point in trying, also a bit late in the day with two more days left. This forum has focused on party politics around transport with a general consensus that in Edinburgh the greens win that debate easily with labour maybe a good way off in second. I am not a fan of basing today's decisions on what might happen in the future. Vote SNP 1 and 2, get a bogus mandate for another referendum, get the country to give the correct answer this time, get a glorious independent Scotland which will be a land of milk and honey where everyone cycles happily on segregated infrastructure.? Rosie on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=10#post-218560 Mon, 02 May 2016 23:41:08 +0000 Rosie 218560@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I keep on saying this, but I don't think cycling is a particular party thing, except for the Greens. The Tories in Scotland won't do much for it, but Johnson as mayor of London has done a good deal, as his arch party opposite Livingstone did in his time. The Labour leader of Edinburgh council has done a good deal as well. The SNP have shown that when in power they will do the very bare minimum for cycling while making progressive noises. I don't see independence making a blind bit of difference to what is a devolved power as far as they are concerned. As the Scottish party with a huge membership and a disciplined machine post indy they would be likely to be in power for years. acsimpson on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=10#post-218558 Mon, 02 May 2016 23:22:46 +0000 acsimpson 218558@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Barnton to town, while I admire your loyalty I can't agree that the quickest way to progressive transport policies is to vote for a party with (ukip aside) pretty much the most regressive policies available. While I am personally against independence I don't see any logical reason that those wishing for real investment in active travel as per the PoP manifesto but who are pro independence would vote for the road building, car subsidising SNP over the green party. Transport is after all a devolved mater. For the record despite remaining a unionist I am undecided and may yet vote green on the regional list as I don't have a constituency candidate. chdot on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=10#post-218508 Mon, 02 May 2016 13:56:30 +0000 chdot 218508@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "and thereafter, we'll be able to vote in parties who are much more representative of the SCOTTISH political landscape." 'Wrong' thread of course...! Yes but. IF Independence happens it is quite likely that the SNP will split - or at least some people will leave for other, existing, parties and (maybe) new ones. With all that in mind, SNP 1 & Green 2 makes sense to some people (probably more in some constituencies/regions than others). barnton-to-town on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218507 Mon, 02 May 2016 13:48:51 +0000 barnton-to-town 218507@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The unionist parties in Scotland toe the unionist UK party-line. And the UK as a whole does not tend towards progressive transport solutions, other than the occasional reuse of a closed branch-line or painted surface on a road. Regardless of current SNP policies, the quickest route to far better all-round progressive transport policies in Scotland is to use the SNP as the battering ram to gain independence, and thereafter, we'll be able to vote in parties who are much more representative of the SCOTTISH political landscape. SNP 1 & 2 SRD on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218425 Sun, 01 May 2016 09:25:41 +0000 SRD 218425@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ my annual request: Please can you take down any posters you see? and especially any that you put up. thank you!! chdot on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218291 Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:44:54 +0000 chdot 218291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <img src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1552/26614629382_6d1f6a73e8.jpg"> paddyirish on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218162 Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:31:12 +0000 paddyirish 218162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Thanks @DdF, your analysis confirmed that I've done the best I can, given the candidates available in my constituency. crowriver on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218161 Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:23:51 +0000 crowriver 218161@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @DdF, I already know I'll be voting Green on the regional list and Labour on the constituency vote. However it is great to see Spokes' analysis confirms my views from the active travel angle! :-) DdF on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218156 Thu, 28 Apr 2016 01:12:39 +0000 DdF 218156@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @chdot ... From Spokes point of view, I very much agree with chdot's comments a couple of entries above. Mutual support and positivity rather than competition and negativity has worked very well. @paddyirish ... you've voted already, but for those who haven't, see the spokes <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/03/holyrood-election-5-may-2016/#Manifestos">manifestos comparison article</a>. The manifestos are anyway pretty similar to the speeches in their main points on cycling. Also - <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/04/pop-2016/">spokes report on PoP2016</a>. paddyirish on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-218034 Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:15:38 +0000 paddyirish 218034@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I sent in my postal vote for Holyrood today and PoP speeches did lead me to change who I voted for in my constituency vote. chdot on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217972 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:02:51 +0000 chdot 217972@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="http://road.cc/content/news/187721-record-numbers-turn-out-2016-pedal-parliament" rel="nofollow">http://road.cc/content/news/187721-record-numbers-turn-out-2016-pedal-parliament</a> chdot on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217893 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:45:44 +0000 chdot 217893@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I believe that PoP has made lots of little differences. As wingpig points out, it's impossible to work out which bits - the event, the people behind it, the people who took part etc. etc. - caused which effects! I think the threats to the AT budgets were challenged effectively by Spokes more than PoP. The existence of PoP has helped Spokes (and - very much - vice versa). In the great cycling/campaigning world these two groupings could have regarded each other with suspicion or even as threats/enemies. BUT that's not what has happened - great credit to all involved. Similarly the improvements to infrastructure in Edinburgh have (in most cases) been coming for some years and, to a large extent, are due to 38 1/2 years of the continuity of Spokes. However I do think that the existence of PoP and the clear 'backing' of 5000 people (not just 5000 people easily clicking some on-line petition) has made CEC 'bolder'. It must be easier for CEC staff to propose things knowing that there is support beyond 'the usual suspects'. It's also more normal for politicians to be seen with bikes now (not just for photo-ops!) - but that may be more due to Boris, David and Jeremy (Hunt and Corbyn!) than PoP. There are now more politicians - across most parties (maybe not UKIP) - more aware of 'cycling' and pedestrian issues. The SNP still seems strangely 'sceptical', which is something of a problem as they will be in power at Holyrood for another 5 years and possibly CEC too from next May. Of course this is a useful reminder that most politicians believe that most people/voters have/want cars. This may or may not be true, it 'conveniently' ignores the fact that MOST people want to be able to walk around safely and not have to wait ridiculously long at the side of the road. Joining the dots seems to be the difficult part and 'we' now have to deal with sideshows like Roseburn where the logic seems to be 'more bikes = more danger'... kaputnik on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217891 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:44:28 +0000 kaputnik 217891@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ TBH, half of us couldn't spell 'parliament' when we started POP either ... Some of us couldn't spell it on the 5th year of PoP either :P Rosie on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217882 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:10:41 +0000 Rosie 217882@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Well, as someone who has ground away at the Spokes coal face for a few years, POP has really cheered me up, if nothing else. I do remember being on a Spokes stall at the Farmer's Market back in 2011 and being asked if we would mind taking some leaflets. "Oh, that looks good," I thought. Turned up in a north-east March wind and was overwhelmed by the numbers and the family feeling. I can't quantify or work out cause/effect but I have a sense that the momentum is with us cycling folk (and that's in other countries as well - eg New Zealand, the USA) and POP is part of it. wingpig on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217879 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:09:15 +0000 wingpig 217879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ It's the "Pedal" bit they tend to get wrong. They're probably trying to be funny. sallyhinch on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217878 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:06:11 +0000 sallyhinch 217878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "albeit in quotes and mis-spelled" TBH, half of us couldn't spell 'parliament' when we started POP either ... wingpig on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217869 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:43:30 +0000 wingpig 217869@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ If only there was a way of getting information out of the alternative reality where the PoPs never took place we might be able to use it as the control for this one where it did. Maybe their city is now full of painted-on Quality Bike Corridors. I'd love to see the various set relationships between PoP attendees and people-who-have-Written-To-Them and people who have become more involved in stuff and joined Spokes and responded to consultations and formed work BUGs who might otherwise not have, as well as those who were inspired to cycle again. As well as the government 'response' in the form of the Active Travel budget there are things further down the line like the inclusion of PoP as a stakeholder in infrastructure workshops which indicate an ongoing presence. Even EEN commenters make regular references to PoP, albeit in quotes and mis-spelled. HankChief on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217864 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:07:10 +0000 HankChief 217864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @paddyirish "There are reasonable signed routes from the city centre to Edinburgh Park and South Gyle" No, they start at Roseburn. Getting into / out of the city centre & tackling the tram tracks you are on your own... paddyirish on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217863 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:01:34 +0000 paddyirish 217863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Since I started cycling ~5 years ago, I've seen the following on the (reasonably limited) routes I ride. My commute from Fife to South Gyle via the A90 is much improved. If I'd like a change to the A90 route, the A8 paths are improving (too slowly for my liking) Canal paths to Ratho and most of Forth And Clyde have been tarmaced. There are reasonable signed routes from the city centre to Edinburgh Park and South Gyle. There is a nice new path for cyclists between Blackness and Boness I see many more cyclists on my commute and loads on weekends... I know it may not be city centre Edinburgh, but arterial routes are much much better. I know it is evolution and not the revolution that some on here demand, but IMO, it is much, much better. SRD on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217862 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:01:19 +0000 SRD 217862@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Yes, the real test will be when we can commute on segregated infra from KB-GS or Morningside Primary to Princes St! I were right about that saddle on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217861 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:56:18 +0000 I were right about that saddle 217861@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @SRD That would indeed be a wonderful start. SRD on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217857 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:37:54 +0000 SRD 217857@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @iwrats - if Edinburgh's plans go ahead, my kids wil be able to cycle from Cramond to Portobello off-road in a few years. I'd say that's progress? sallyhinch on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217856 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:35:26 +0000 sallyhinch 217856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Dave - it's hard to know for sure, but when we started POP, the budget for active travel was about to be slashed, and now the SNP are trumpeting their record active travel spending. Also, we've heard that it's things like POP that have given councils outside Edinburgh the courage to try taking road space away from cars. Scotland spends about twice per head what England spends on cycling. We're not building a Dutch-style network yet, but all around the country there is more money for a pedestrian and cycling bridge here, a link there - things which can start to add up. Realistically, we won't convert a petrolhead politician overnight through POP - all we can do is make them think 'oh we'd better give the cyclists something or they'll make a huge fuss'. What we can do, is enable a supportive politician to have the courage of their convictions and push something through for cycling, knowing that we'll have their back when it all hits the fan. I were right about that saddle on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217854 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:31:03 +0000 I were right about that saddle 217854@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @SRD Agree wholeheartedly. PoP got cycling on the telly and politicians can't ignore anything on the nation's screens. Thing is, I also worry that @Dave is also right. I haven't noticed any improvement in my experience of cycling in Edinburgh since PoP started other than (on Sunday) some nice tarmac on the canal to Ratho. Some paint has been refreshed (which made things worse as drivists could see the 'lanes') and some solar LEDs went on the canal (which made things worse as dog walkers then went unlit). So I'd say that PoP has most certainly lit the fuse in that it has made campaigners of thousands of us and put our agenda to the fore, but there is a risk it will fizzle out if we don't find a way to make our transport minister afraid they'll lose their job unless things get better for us smartish. My own feeling, as I've hinted before, is that this won't happen unless we recruit a much bigger group or more powerful groups. chdot on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217852 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:21:40 +0000 chdot 217852@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think organisers were *hoping* for 300. I thought more like 1000 was possible - because really a lot of effort had been put in (mostly by CCEers) to promote the IDEA of a ride. Spokes used to organise similar events - usually on sunny mid-summer Sundays - but that was a long time ago so most of the people PoP hoped to attract would probably never have been to an event like this. On the day, about 3000 thought they should support the call for 'better'. SRD on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217851 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:19:37 +0000 SRD 217851@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Not an excuse, but pretty sure that pic went up on story the night before. they then updated the story, but not the pic. In reply to your cheery question, I'd point out that as i noted above, before POP, cycling - much less cycling expenditure/infrastructure - hadn't even been the subject of a debate. Now there is a cross-party-group, and cycling got decent coverage in manifestos, election campaign leaflets that crossed my door, and the lead item on saturday's STV news was the twoparty leaders who didn't attend POp being grilled on their commitments to active travel. not bad? Dave on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217849 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:16:26 +0000 Dave 217849@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ How far have we actually come since the first PoP? It seems to me that apart from Edinburgh's very local cycle budget, things in Scotland are much of a muchness. Perhaps that's unfair? The fact that more than one news outlet covers the event with photos from previous years adds to my sense of unease. Is it really a protest that is having an impact in the way that, say, the same number of doctors or lorry drivers or whatever would have if they turned up at Holyrood? wingpig on "PoP16" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15715&page=9#post-217847 Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:02:22 +0000 wingpig 217847@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <blockquote>"...and we're aiming (ambitious this one...) for about 500 riders..."</blockquote>