http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Self-driving cars 'must have driver', regulators insist en Sun, 31 May 2026 06:44:24 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=5#post-375061 Tue, 21 May 2024 09:40:04 +0000 neddie 375061@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You can be sure they won't boost safety and they'll bully other road users out of the way just like current drivers do.</p> <p>How else is a car supposed to work in a city, if it can't bully, intimidate and take all the available space? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=5#post-375054 Mon, 20 May 2024 22:40:29 +0000 chdot 375054@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Transport Secretary, Mark Harper, said: </p> <p>Britain stands at the threshold of an automotive revolution and this new law is a milestone moment for our self-driving industry, which has the potential to change the way we travel forever. </p> <p>While this doesn’t take away people’s ability to choose to drive themselves, our landmark legislation means self-driving vehicles can be rolled out on British roads as soon as 2026, in a real boost to both safety and our economy. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/news/self-driving-vehicles-set-to-be-on-roads-by-2026-as-automated-vehicles-act-becomes-law" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.uk/government/news/self-driving-vehicles-set-to-be-on-roads-by-2026-as-automated-vehicles-act-becomes-law</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-369425 Wed, 26 Jul 2023 10:08:23 +0000 neddie 369425@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>It warned that the technology used by AVs – which includes lidar, radar, cameras, AI – as well as other advanced sensors and semiconductors, can all be used to collect data on American citizens and infrastructure that could be shared back to China</blockquote></p> <p><a href="https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2023/07/chinese-driverless-vehicles-present-spying-risk-us-transport-chief-warns" rel="nofollow">https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2023/07/chinese-driverless-vehicles-present-spying-risk-us-transport-chief-warns</a></p> <p>No mate, ALL MODERN CARS ARE A POTENTIAL SPYING RISK</p> <p>They all contain cameras, GPS, sensors, radar and feed data back to their manufacturers (and potentially governments, others) via the internet</p> <p>Of course, this is really about American protectionism - they just don't like it that China is getting "ahead"</p> <p>(I put "ahead" in quotes because more cars and more internet-connected stuff isn't really progress) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-350725 Sat, 15 May 2021 18:41:00 +0000 chdot 350725@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/15/tesla-fatal-california-crash-autopilot" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/15/tesla-fatal-california-crash-autopilot</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-317468 Fri, 08 Nov 2019 20:02:25 +0000 unhurt 317468@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Driverless Tesla coasting along mall parking lot raises questions, causes confusion<br /> <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/driverless-tesla-richmond-b-c-1.5349855" rel="nofollow">https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/driverless-tesla-richmond-b-c-1.5349855</a></p> <p>"Video of a driverless Tesla moving at a brisk walking pace at a mall parking lot in Richmond, B.C. — sometimes in the wrong lane — raises questions about what is and isn't legal when regulations don't come close to capturing the advances or potential dangers of self-driving vehicles." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-308759 Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:23:06 +0000 toomanybikes 308759@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Autopilot is a fancy lane keeping and merging device. It's a long way off being self driving, especially in cities. Tesla probably have a few iterations with more features, but they're remaining internal for the foreseeable future. </p> <p>The only company remotely close to launching a self driving service to the public is Waymo (Google). Here's it dealing with a very classic cycle lane problem. Even when they launch it'll be in Arizona, which is all wide highways with good sight lines and sunny weather. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG_O4RyQqGE" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG_O4RyQqGE</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-308754 Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:53:08 +0000 EdinburghCycleCam 308754@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I think it did recognise the cyclist, but not quick enough"<br /> No - it saw the cyclist after the driver took control (you can see in the bottom left screen) but then "lost" them. The reason the car slowed down is because of the oncoming car. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-308750 Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:38:19 +0000 neddie 308750@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is scary:</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0eZRVw9x4&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;t=923" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0eZRVw9x4&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;t=923</a></p> <p>.<br /> From about 15:23 on.</p> <p>It seems to have no hazard awareness and is constantly trying to "push" up to the maximum speed set by the user.</p> <p>No hazard awareness shown of the following:<br /> - a cyclist<br /> - a school<br /> - speed bumps<br /> - "keep clear" markings </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-302673 Wed, 06 Mar 2019 19:27:00 +0000 sallyhinch 302673@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I forget where I read it - it was a long time ago, back when airbags were first becoming widespread - but apparently an airbag designed to save the life of a 6' 200lb man not wearing a seatbelt will decapitate a 4'10" woman (i.e. many Asian women, especially older ones). I remember thinking then, perhaps let's not prioritise the life of the guy who can't be bothered to buckle up ... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-302671 Wed, 06 Mar 2019 19:02:30 +0000 unhurt 302671@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well, that the design / testing process is shaped by structural racism. (Kinda like structural sexism - the stuff in the recent Criado-Perez book about design that assumes a "standard" body based on a somewhat limited standard: saw some excerpts that noted women drivers are more likely to die than a man in a similar vehicle &amp; impact because e.g. they tend on average to be seated closer to the steering wheel and lean back less in order to see / reach.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-302668 Wed, 06 Mar 2019 18:33:45 +0000 crowriver 302668@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>New study suggests autonomous vehicles might be racist.</p> <p><a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/self-driving-car-crash-racial-bias-black-people-study-a8810031.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/self-driving-car-crash-racial-bias-black-people-study-a8810031.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-298835 Tue, 08 Jan 2019 11:27:31 +0000 neddie 298835@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"level 5" autonomy will never exist says Waymo CEO:</p> <p><a href="https://medium.com/radical-urbanist/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-limited-even-the-industry-leader-admits-it-c5fe5aa01699" rel="nofollow">https://medium.com/radical-urbanist/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-limited-even-the-industry-leader-admits-it-c5fe5aa01699</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-298372 Thu, 27 Dec 2018 14:26:04 +0000 chdot 298372@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Will people intentionally walk out in front simply”</p> <p>Probably - once. </p> <p>“because they know the vehicle will detect them and stop before horribleness occurs?”</p> <p>Ah well, depends on speed. </p> <p>Car <em>might</em> react faster than a human driver. </p> <p>Car may brake with ‘perfect efficiency’ - ie no skidding - but physics still requires relatively fixed stopping distances related to speed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-298371 Thu, 27 Dec 2018 14:16:44 +0000 Arellcat 298371@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perhaps they should build in a certain amount of random deviation from algorithms with safety as the prime directive.</p> <p>I was thinking the other day, when I used a lift at work, that we humans think nothing of thrusting a hand between the closing doors of the lift in order to delay its imminent departure and buy us time to board. It's only because we know the doors won't crush us to DETH. Do passengers on the London Underground do the same? No, because the doors only detect an object once it obstructs a pressure strip, and by then you're sorely reminded that these door closing mechanisms are really quite strong.</p> <p>Will people alter their behaviour, to encompass what would otherwise be risky, around automous vehicles? Almost certainly, if they can tell that such-and-such a vehicle is autonomous. Will people intentionally walk out in front simply because they know the vehicle will detect them and stop before horribleness occurs? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-298370 Thu, 27 Dec 2018 13:35:28 +0000 crowriver 298370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Why People Keep Rear-Ending Self-Driving Cars</p> <p>"California crash reports make clear that humans expect other humans to bend or break traffic rules, rolling through four-way intersections, accelerating to make a yellow light, or cruising over the speed limit. But his robots won’t follow suit."</p> <p><a href="https://www.wired.com/story/self-driving-car-crashes-rear-endings-why-charts-statistics/" rel="nofollow">https://www.wired.com/story/self-driving-car-crashes-rear-endings-why-charts-statistics/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-298358 Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:32:45 +0000 chdot 298358@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/self-driving-vehicles-to-be-tested-against-scotland-s-wandering-sheep-1-4848664" rel="nofollow">https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/self-driving-vehicles-to-be-tested-against-scotland-s-wandering-sheep-1-4848664</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-295796 Wed, 14 Nov 2018 21:33:36 +0000 wingpig 295796@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/cars-drivers-ethical-dilemmas-machines?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/cars-drivers-ethical-dilemmas-machines?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard</a></p> <p>"Above all, however, it will be directly life-saving. Around the world, more than 1 million people are killed in car accidents each year, most because of driver error. The driverless car won’t go to the pub, won’t get distracted by its mobile phone, won’t become drowsy at the wheel." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294356 Sat, 27 Oct 2018 11:57:02 +0000 neddie 294356@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Great blog on the “trolley problem” con:</p> <p><a href="https://visionzerolondon.wordpress.com/2018/10/25/the-trolley-problem-is-a-big-con/" rel="nofollow">https://visionzerolondon.wordpress.com/2018/10/25/the-trolley-problem-is-a-big-con/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294222 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 20:27:58 +0000 Blueth 294222@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Probably, wingpig, because these guys will be "the average driver" who seldom looks far enough ahead to see developing situations and, on suddenly finding themself in the middle of one, just slams on the brakes.</p> <p>The ideal way to avoid an incident is to analyse what is going on ahead (it'd be nice to think a self driving car could do this) and just avoid it but otherwise there are four options: braking, acceleration, change of course or some combination of those three. At least two of these never seem to occur to most drivers.</p> <p>However, provided there's no injury, it can be entertaining watching someone press on regardless in to a situation they should have seen developing from way back.</p> <p>And cyclists can be just as guilty. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294207 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:08:58 +0000 acsimpson 294207@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If minor transgressions put you on the hit list for automated cars then the standard of driving for the remaining manual vehicles should show a marked improvement.</p> <p>The whole thing is as usual a minor detail though the number of lives saved will be vast compared to the unfortunate incident where a human is hit by a self driving car. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294200 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 17:10:46 +0000 crowriver 294200@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Walking in the road is not illegal, at least in this country. "</p> <p>Indeed not, but I'm betting the software is being written in North America. </p> <p>I wager many drivers would sacrifice people who "looked at me in a funny way" too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294146 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:14:59 +0000 wingpig 294146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"Surely the occupants of the vehicle should be the first "to be sacrificed" given that it was their choice to use the vehicle."</em></blockquote></p> <p>One rendition of this story I read had replies from the people involved in the programming of the self-driving cars, whose response was that a car would always try to brake first before swerving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294139 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:20:24 +0000 Blueth 294139@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely the occupants of the vehicle should be the first "to be sacrificed" given that it was their choice to use the vehicle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294121 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 09:11:19 +0000 wingpig 294121@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"...cars should favour law-abiding citizens over those that might be walking in the road."</em></blockquote></p> <p>Walking in the road is not illegal, at least in this country. Maybe they meant "people walking in the road wearing a mask over their eyes with a VCR tucked under their arm". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294118 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 07:00:13 +0000 gembo 294118@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Unlike Brexit, this survey cannot have had a dominant grey demographic.</p> <p>Choosing humans to live in The human - animal scenario also throws up the dilemma that no animals were surveyed? (For @jdanielp, the animal in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe has been bred to want you to eat it) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-294109 Wed, 24 Oct 2018 21:21:46 +0000 crowriver 294109@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SELF-DRIVING CAR SURVEY SHOWS WHO EXACTLY THE WORLD WANTS AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES TO SACRIFICE</p> <p>Animals and the old chosen to be killed in huge survey</p> <p>Also, people who "walk in the road". No mention of cyclists, but I presume that doesn't even need to be mentioned, it's a given...</p> <p><a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/self-driving-car-autonomous-vehicle-survey-kill-death-road-crash-study-a8599981.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/self-driving-car-autonomous-vehicle-survey-kill-death-road-crash-study-a8599981.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-286479 Fri, 06 Jul 2018 21:57:14 +0000 chdot 286479@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Last par of Stickman’s link -</p> <p>“</p> <p>This pursuit of the driverless car dream is therefore not only crowding out better ways of improving transport, but also stymying scientific development. Of the 20 or so exhibitors I spoke to, not a single one believed autonomous cars would be on our roads within a decade. There are a myriad problems, ranging from insurance issues to the limitations of the technology and the resistance of the public to travelling in them. Rather than swallowing the fatuous statements from politicians about how driverless cars are going to change our lives, we need a sober assessment of their potential benefits, if any, and, crucially, of their downsides.</p> <p>“ </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-286475 Fri, 06 Jul 2018 17:39:33 +0000 acsimpson 286475@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://newatlas.com/wayve-autonomous-car-machine-learning-learn-drive/55340/">If we can't build them they'll have to learn it themselves!</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-286423 Fri, 06 Jul 2018 08:23:26 +0000 Stickman 286423@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/the-dream-of-driverless-cars-is-dying">The dream of driverless cars is dying. </a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15862&page=4#post-285916 Thu, 28 Jun 2018 13:26:13 +0000 wingpig 285916@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"BP buys UK's biggest electric car charger network for £130m"</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/28/bp-buys-uks-biggest-electric-car-charger-network-for-130m?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardcode" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/28/bp-buys-uks-biggest-electric-car-charger-network-for-130m?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardcode</a></p> <p>Suspicious. </p>