http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: BBC Scotland Investigates: Car Sick en Sun, 31 May 2026 21:40:32 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-211090 Fri, 05 Feb 2016 13:31:32 +0000 HankChief 211090@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just one week left to view this on iplayer.</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06wgw4d/bbc-scotland-investigates-2015-11-car-sick">http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06wgw4d/bbc-scotland-investigates-2015-11-car-sick</a></p> <p>Maybe you want to ensure your elected representatives or electoral hopefuls watch it before it is too late... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208653 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 11:53:34 +0000 Stickman 208653@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tulare: didn't the programme say that something like 60% of Copenhagen politicians used bikes to get around? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208644 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 05:07:21 +0000 Tulyar 208644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely Edinburgh should have taxis of such high quality that the Council can dispense with the need to run a special limousine which sits idle and I presume has a standing post for a driver, and simply call for a taxi to move its great and goods and their guests around the city. For shorter and less onerous trips the city's bike share bikes would be available, and for large groups there should be no shame associated with simply using a scheduled bus service or getting an additional vehicle on the route to handle the surge in demand presented by an official party. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208639 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 00:36:20 +0000 LaidBack 208639@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Do they use a Daimler now? Something black like that heads up from City Chambers anyway.</p> <p>I look forward to the walk and cycle day that the green party suggests Holyrood should have. They'd have to close roads off for safety of MSPs though. Cycling anywhere near Holyrood park is only for advanced bike users!</p> <p>Finally was thinking about the problem of out of town commuters and the 'why don't they live closer to their work?" question. In the case of my Borders example his partner is on call at Borders General so that influenced choice. The diverse nature of work and relationships means that couples often are divergent on transport choice. A lot of bike use is to free up a car for other partner. Ideally both would cycle but in our household it's bike versus walking/bus/tram.<br /> We'll know we're winning the normalisation of cycling when people don't use the phrase 'I had to cycle as husband/ wife got to the car first'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208622 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 21:29:39 +0000 chdot 208622@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>1981 (while I was looking for something else!)</p> <p><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1493/24401313955_785d22e953_o_d.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208619 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 19:53:55 +0000 crowriver 208619@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I linked to that page as it contains a host of other links, including this one which shows that cycling spend may be adversely affected by the way the budget has been structured:</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2015/12/scottish-budget-councils-cycling-hit/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/2015/12/scottish-budget-councils-cycling-hit/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208618 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 19:30:35 +0000 sallyhinch 208618@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is perhaps the better Spokes link for an actual budget breakdown <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2015/12/budget-roads-up-rail-down-cyclingwalking-unclear/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/2015/12/budget-roads-up-rail-down-cyclingwalking-unclear/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208614 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 18:50:53 +0000 crowriver 208614@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Spokes have done an analysis, I believe.</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/01/scottish-budget-a-realistic-proposal/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/2016/01/scottish-budget-a-realistic-proposal/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208612 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 18:30:33 +0000 Stickman 208612@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Are there details of what this £39m is bring spent on? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=3#post-208611 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 18:18:52 +0000 chdot 208611@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>It was Spotswood et al (2015) who reminded us a year ago, that we must take a more holistic look, to overcome the current deadlock. We must fully operationalise the authorities’ mantra of “wanting to get more people cycling, more often”. The city makes its own cyclists. In effect, please be my guest and blame the city government if you do not like the cycling culture. </p> <p>The role the individual is able to play is much overplayed.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://katsdekker.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/blood-on-invisable-hands" rel="nofollow">https://katsdekker.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/blood-on-invisable-hands</a></p> <p>("Yes, Ger(wo)man in Geordie Toon tweetin' in her own capacity. CEng EurIng. PhD research at Northumbria Uni in spatial fairness for urban cycling. Degenderising.") </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208606 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:24:52 +0000 chdot 208606@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>@copenhagenize: @RantyHighwayman Denmark had a massive car assembly industry for Scandinavia. And yet we cycled @KlausBondam</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208605 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:18:34 +0000 chdot 208605@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>@RantyHighwayman: @RantyHighwayman Scotland, your transport chappie really does talk cobblers. 1.9% of transport budget. Sheesh</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208584 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:29:30 +0000 crowriver 208584@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"British people are driving less (really?? REALLY???)."</p> <p>Does not apply to Scotland, here we're driving more than ever before (except Edinburgh). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208583 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:27:45 +0000 crowriver 208583@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Min "On the theme of cognitive dissonance"</p> <p>Please add this to the relevant thread! :-)</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15918" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15918</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208570 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:33:40 +0000 Stickman 208570@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm assuming that this is covering <em>licensed</em> drivers. Given the high costs of lessons and insurance, how many are just skipping the formalities and heading out on the roads? I think the estimate of uninsured drivers is into the millions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208569 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:20:39 +0000 Min 208569@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Thought it was established that 'young people' would rather play with their smartphones than drive(?)</em></p> <p>A great many current motorists also would rather play with their mobile phones than drive of course! </p> <p><em>Though being able to afford both may come into it. </em></p> <p>This seems the most likely explanation. Car manufacturers are of course trying to solve this problem by building cars that connect to Facebook but people still need to do this when they are not driving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208561 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:00:04 +0000 chdot 208561@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"apparent fact that British people are driving less"</p> <p>Thought it was established that 'young people' would rather play with their smartphones than drive(?)</p> <p>Though being able to afford both may come into it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208557 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:10:50 +0000 Min 208557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the theme of cognitive dissonance, on the BBC website today there is an article bemoaning the apparent fact that British people are driving less (really?? <em>REALLY???</em>). </p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35242514" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35242514</a></p> <p>There is not even the slightest hint that it might then be a good time to start switching to other modes of transport. No, the "problem" is only that it is going to be hard to predict when people will start driving more, so we may as well just keep on going with massive road building schemes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208544 Fri, 15 Jan 2016 09:35:52 +0000 gibbo 208544@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"It's about behavioural change as well."</em></p> <p>Ah, the fantasy of "behavioural change".</p> <p>I guess to people like Derek Mackay, the correlation between the cities with high bike use and the cities with good cycling infrastructure is just coincidence.</p> <p><em>"It's about the culture we want to deliver. That is about encouraging more people on to Active Travel: walking &amp; cycling"</em></p> <p>You know what "encourages" the masses to cycle? Segregated bike routes.</p> <p>You know what I saw from a bus yesterday? A car parked in the cycle lane of the downhill lane on N Bank St.</p> <p>Basically, as soon as a cyclist turned the corner at Coda, they'd have to see the car and slam on the brakes, and hope they don't skid.</p> <p>That's dangerous parking... dangerous AND <u>legal</u>.</p> <p>What are cyclists expected to do? Suddenly filter? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208530 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:55:57 +0000 unhurt 208530@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"ensuring infrastructure is there; That there are facilities if people want to use it"</p> <p>And how are those facilities going to appear if they aren't funded? Infrastructure fairies? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208528 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:13:53 +0000 HankChief 208528@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@amir I agree it's depressing...</p> <p>I starting transcribing what the minister said but it's so tepid it's hard to keep the will to live.</p> <p>"Are our Councils and political leaders doing enough to protect us?"</p> <p><em>"Well, I think that emissions and clean air is certainly more of a topic now than it was before. I hope that local authorities reflect on that.<br /> We've had a consensual debate in parliament about action that should be undertaken and that now has to work their way through local government as well.<br /> There are a range of powers that can be deployed to make an impact locally and I'd encourage leaders to take this very seriously."</em></p> <p>-------</p> <p>"So how much are we spending now?"</p> <p><em>"In terms of Active Transport it's a record level of £39m. That's the highest ever investment in Active Travel."</em></p> <p>"1.9% of your budget. Is that right?"</p> <p><em>"It's still £39m. It's still at a record level. It's about behavioural change as well. It's not just about throwing money at certain projects. It's about the culture we want to deliver. That is about encouraging more people on to Active Travel: walking &amp; cycling; ensuring infrastructure is there; That there are facilities if people want to use it also"</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208527 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 22:00:04 +0000 amir 208527@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm watching the programme now. I find it depressing that despite the many good reasons backed by hard facts the politicians don't do anything serious to move people in the necessary direction and much of the public have their heads in the sand </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208521 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 20:57:20 +0000 LaidBack 208521@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We have one forumer (at least) living in the Borders. He does use train sometimes but it actually makes sense for him to use car share. Knock on of ever cheaper fuel versus train fares that are inflating.<br /> Even if he does use train he has 12 miles to drive which on smaller roads would take as long to get over Soutra.<br /> Now the A68 has the Dalkeith bypass takes you to edge of Edinburgh in 25mins from where he lives. Of course it takes longer to get in from city limit and he does use Park and Ride too. Cycled from Sherrifhall a bit too.</p> <p>The woman interviewed didn't seem to want to consider car share.<br /> Many forumers cycle to avoid being squeezed in with other people on buses and trains so although we have differences with intense car users (and motorbikers) we do like the idea of 'personal' transport.</p> <p>Basically what annoys us on the CCE forum is the assumption that a car is what everyone would want to own and drive. Will watch Google / Tesla for semi-automatic car developments though! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208494 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:37:39 +0000 crowriver 208494@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"And annoyingly, the BBC had to 'balance' the piece with the driver who "has" to commute by car."</p> <p>Actually I think the journalist was having a sly dig at her intransigence. The repeated incredulity that she had not even considered trying the train, even for fun, was telling.</p> <p>Of course, keen motorists won't get that, they'll just see confirmation of their own choices. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208493 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:35:48 +0000 crowriver 208493@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aye, but that's not going to happen. After all, the SNP are committed to spending £3 billion+ on duelling the A9 even when traffic volumes cannot possibly justify it. Completing the M74 when cities around the world are demolishing urban motorways. </p> <p>Etc. ad nauseam.</p> <p>It's just buying off their core supporters in the SNP heartland, nothing more. </p> <p>Don't expect any vision from the SNP other than "everything will be great after independence".</p> <p>Until then, business as usual. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208478 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:26:17 +0000 neddie 208478@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If I were mayor, I'd go further than gibbo:</p> <p>- 25% of the transport budget maintaining existing roads (no new roads, no junction 'improvements', no £1m electronic gantry signs telling you the bl**ding obvious, etc)<br /> - 25% on public transport<br /> - 50% on active travel &amp; public realm improvements</p> <p>(I doubt that 'only' 15% on active travel would be enough to ever catch up with the Netherlands/Denmark - sorry gibbo) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208475 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:16:57 +0000 neddie 208475@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And annoyingly, the BBC had to 'balance' the piece with the driver who "has" to commute by car.</p> <p>No mention of her:<br /> - moving closer to where she works<br /> - moving closer to a train/bus station<br /> - finding a job locally, etc.</p> <p>A brief mention of parking &amp; riding, but no, that would be too inconvenient for her.</p> <p>Another point missed by the BBC: Basically, people who don't want to drive their commute set their lives up so they don't have to (and vice versa)! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208470 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:12:46 +0000 crowriver 208470@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Luckily the execrable Alan Douglas won't always be here. He's looking unhealthily overweight, like so many keen motorists seem to once they reach a certain age. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208468 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:06:43 +0000 neddie 208468@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>the 'execrable Alan Douglas' got my back up when he started saying, "Well, the motor car is here to stay... And it's always gonna pollute... And well pollution's just gonna happen..." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15885&page=2#post-208452 Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:04:30 +0000 crowriver 208452@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Having done drink driving and smoking in public places, you'd think there would be more concern/willingness to take 'active travel'/more restrictions on car use seriously."</p> <p>Neither of these were done by the SNP. Labour in both cases, I think. The only ban imposed by the SNP was on singing certain songs/using certain language at football matches. Symbolic, be nice to each other and behave politics.</p> <p>"As the ex-mayor said - 'Denmark didn't have a car industry'"..."</p> <p>Denmark didn't discover oil in the North Sea either. That factor has helped Scotland become such a motor vehicle dominated place, that and geography (outside the central belt at least).</p> <p>In Denmark cycling rates are lower outside Copenhagen. There are even variations in the Netherlands: Rotterdam "only" 16% modal share for example (similar to Cambridge). </p> <p>So I think we need to make a distinction between Edinburgh and the rest of Scotland. Glasgow is trying some good things, but at the moment Edinburgh is exceptional in terms of cycling modal share. Plummeting oil prices (feeding through to lower fuel prices) mean that is not about to change any time soon. </p>