http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: New hospital built; drivers complain en Tue, 19 May 2026 04:47:37 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943&page=2#post-209104 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:38:52 +0000 Stickman 209104@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I first tasted Bovril as a child on my first visit to Firhill. </p> <p>I don't think I've fully recovered from either experience. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943&page=2#post-209103 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:31:07 +0000 minus six 209103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I'm quite partial to Bovril, though I do not self-identify as a member of a subterranean master race.</em></p> <p>More's the pity, Crowriver !</p> <p>We have a special plan for this world. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943&page=2#post-209093 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:00:16 +0000 crowriver 209093@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"People who got driven to school by their mum kept it quiet for fear of being an object of ridicule."</p> <p>This mirrors my experience in a comprehensive in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Heaven forbid you got dropped off at the front gate: the mortification! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943&page=2#post-209090 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 17:56:05 +0000 AKen 209090@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I went to a fee-paying school in Edinburgh (that shall remain nameless) during the 70s and 80s. People who got driven to school by their mum kept it quiet for fear of being an object of ridicule.</p> <p>Hardly anyone walked to school, most took the train or bus (although this often involved a long walk from the station/stop at either end). Cycling was almost non-existent as a means of transport. We didn't even have bike sheds to smoke behind. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209089 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 17:49:33 +0000 crowriver 209089@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The book was quite popular in the late 19th century, and for a time the word "Vril" came to be associated with "life-giving elixirs". The best known use of "Vril" in this context is in the name of Bovril (a blend word of Bovine and Vril)."</p> <p>I'm quite partial to Bovril, though I do not self-identify as a member of a subterranean master race. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209088 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 17:38:00 +0000 minus six 209088@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Edward Bulwer-Lytton was also famous for his novel <em>Vril: The Power of the Coming Race</em>, as referenced extensively by David Bowie on his legendary track <em>Oh! You Pretty Things</em>.</p> <p>Which brings us back neatly to the 'little darlings' motif. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209086 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 17:11:44 +0000 crowriver 209086@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The great unwashed</p> <p>Meaning<br /> The common, lower classes; the hoi polloi.</p> <p>Origin<br /> This rather disparaging term was coined by the Victorian novelist and playwright Edward Bulwer-Lytton. He used it in his 1830 novel Paul Clifford:<br /> "He is certainly a man who bathes and ‘lives cleanly’, (two especial charges preferred against him by Messrs. the Great Unwashed)." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209081 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:54:48 +0000 PS 209081@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Having said that I regularly see pupils from the High School of Dundee on the train travelling to north east Fife. Whether they then catch a bus at Leuchars/Cupar I couldn't say. </em></p> <p>A few years ago I noticed a lot of Heriots pupils getting off the North Berwick train. They're probably all at uni by now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209080 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:54:28 +0000 GDR 209080@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Crowdriver-do people who catch the bus not wash? Can't say I ever noticed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209075 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:17:26 +0000 crowriver 209075@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"As someone who went to a fee-paying secondary school in Manchester (albeit one with a very aggressive social inclusion policy), I can't say I noticed this. Vast majority arrived on public or private buses."</p> <p>This IS Edinburgh though. 20%+ of school age children (higher % at secondary level) attend a fee-paying school, the highest rate in the UK. The Sustrans stats may not be comprehensive, but they are all we've got: they show 58% travelling by car to independent schools, even if some are dropped off a bit further away than the school gates.</p> <p>"About one in 20 children in Scotland is educated at private schools, although the figure in Edinburgh is closer to one in four."</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/private-school-fees-soar-in-scotland-1-3533180" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/private-school-fees-soar-in-scotland-1-3533180</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209072 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:04:31 +0000 cb 209072@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Murun B, good point and did occur to after I'd posted.</p> <p>£2.60 or something like that for a single between Waverley and Haymarket. Have done it on one or two occasions then got the tram back, but this has been as an exciting activity for a two year old. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209071 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:02:22 +0000 Darkerside 209071@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"It's also quite possible that parents paying fees are more inclined to chauffeur their kids to school than let them rub shoulders with the great unwashed on the bus."</p> <p>As someone who went to a fee-paying secondary school in Manchester (albeit one with a very aggressive social inclusion policy), I can't say I noticed this. Vast majority arrived on public or private buses. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209069 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:54:26 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 209069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Borders &amp; local East Lothian trains terminate at Waverley. It's perfectly possible that many people have inclusive through or season tickets to Haymarket. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209068 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:44:25 +0000 The Boy 209068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's certainly free if you get off before the ticket inspector reaches you (depending which platform the train is leaving from - manned ticket barriers are a major obstacle to such things). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209066 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:37:18 +0000 dougal 209066@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think there's a remarkable number of people that take that train journey @cb. Unless I'm missing something and it's suddenly free for inner-city travel that seems an extraordinary waste of money. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209054 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:54:15 +0000 cb 209054@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was always quite surprised by the number of St George's pupils who would travel Waverley to Haymarket by train.</p> <p>Not sure what they did after that. Walk, or catch a bus?</p> <p>Would have thought that a bus all the way would be quicker (and cheaper). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209050 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:40:27 +0000 crowriver 209050@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Presumably an average trip to an independent school will be further than to a state school so you'd expect walking %s to be smaller (and probably cycling/scootering etc)."</p> <p>Yes, I did mention this upthread. </p> <p>It's also quite possible that parents paying fees are more inclined to chauffeur their kids to school than let them rub shoulders with the great unwashed on the bus.</p> <p>Having said that I regularly see pupils from the High School of Dundee on the train travelling to north east Fife. Whether they then catch a bus at Leuchars/Cupar I couldn't say. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209049 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:37:08 +0000 crowriver 209049@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"is there any criteria for this"</p> <p>I think the difference is that the car doesn't drop the pupil off at the school gates, but rather parks round the corner somewhere, maybe quite a distance away. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209017 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 10:29:36 +0000 cb 209017@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In my experience of answering travel surveys, 'park and stride' (or indeed any journey involving more than one mode of transport) wouldn't be picked up so the stats around this kind of thing may not be accurate.</p> <p>Don't some independent schools put on buses?</p> <p>Presumably an average trip to an independent school will be further than to a state school so you'd expect walking %s to be smaller (and probably cycling/scootering etc). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209011 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 09:55:44 +0000 minus six 209011@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Other modes include "park and stride" i.e.. driving part of the way, walking the rest</em></p> <p>is there any criteria for this - surely all motorists can claim to 'park and stride', even for a relatively short walk up to the destination </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-209007 Wed, 20 Jan 2016 00:48:45 +0000 LivM 209007@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Myreside road was part of my "how do I get to ERI when I'm in labour" route :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208973 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 19:01:13 +0000 Fountainbridge 208973@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Must admit I drove along Myerside Road today. I could have gone via Morningside Road or Glenockhart Road but both would have added a mile on to my journey and probably have added an extra 10 mins. </p> <p>So yes parents will be inconvenienced, but so will other drivers and bus passengers (38). It's part of a road NETWORK - although there isn't much of a network in that area. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208972 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 18:39:07 +0000 crowriver 208972@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Lies, damned lies and statistics I am sure."</p> <p>Looked at another way, 54% of state school pupils walk to school (54.3% secondary, 53.5% primary), compared to just 17% of independent school pupils. So if we take your figures that's 24,246 state school pupils on foot versus 1,870 independent school pupils.</p> <p>Cycling: 2.9% of independent school pupils ride to school; 1.3% of state secondary and 6.2% of state primary school pupils ride. So that's 319 cyclists in the fee paying sector, 213 council run secondary wheelers and 1.668 government funded primary poolers.</p> <p>Lothian Buses have something to celebrate, as 31.4% of state secondary school pupils (5,652) hop on a bus; 16.4% of independent school pupils (1,804); and 3.6% of state primary school pupils (968).</p> <p>This does of course mean that 62.1% of independent school pupils use motorised transport; Whereas only 54.2% of state secondary and 22.9% of state primary school pupils do so. (All % including taxis).</p> <p>On the other hand 67.5% of state primary school pupils use active travel modes (7.8% on scooters/skates); 55.8% of state secondary school pupils stretch their legs on the way to school; and only 22.6% of independent school pupils do so.</p> <p>Other modes include "park and stride" i.e.. driving part of the way, walking the rest. Independent schools lead the way here, at 12.5%; state primaries have 9% travelling this way; state secondaries 2.6%. This last mode is rising year on year, and perhaps will grow further as parking restrictions around primary schools start to come into force.</p> <p>Put another way, this means the motor car plays a part in 58% of all journeys to private schools (6,380), and motorised transport in 74.4% (8,184). This compares to 27.9% (7,505) and 31.5% (8,473) for state primaries; 11.3% (2,034)and 42.7% (7,686) for state secondaries.</p> <p>Or that's 15,919 cars on Edinburgh's streets twice a day ferrying children to and from school (even if some of them walk from round the corner). Nearly 32,000 round trips daily, presumably most of them less than 5 miles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208970 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 18:15:15 +0000 minus six 208970@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>By and large, I like to think of myself as an equal opportunist misanthrope</p> <p>However those range rovers aren't cheap, and neither are the school fees </p> <p>So i'm happy to generalise wildly and regard these parents as elitist morally bankrupt shareholders for the banking sector and arms industry</p> <p>It provides some background colour for my day </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208968 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 17:46:15 +0000 GDR 208968@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Crowdriver-apologies for misquoting you-"darlings" it is. Was actually aiming my comment at an earlier post. Interestingly when I look at Scottish Gov figures and figures from the independent schools themselves for total pupil numbers (i.e. primary plus secondary c44,900 state school pupils in Edi comprising 26,900 primary and 18,000 secondary; c11,000 in independent schools) and applying the percentages you quote, I calculate 6650 state school pupils normally travelling by car and 5005 independent school pupils. Lies, damned lies and statistics I am sure.<br /> I totally agree with the general theme about school runs, parking etc. I just get a bit fed up with people taking cheap shots at independent schools (NOT you) as if the standard of driving or the attitude of drivers is in any way different to that which we all experience more generally. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208965 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:50:10 +0000 crowriver 208965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think I said darlings rather than little darlings (most kids will be teenagers), and cannot recall expressing any snobbery, inverse or otherwise. Simply it's factual that the road is used by Watson's parents, the quotes from the Watson's bursar and former school governor, Tory councillor Mark McInnes confirm that.</p> <p>Also worth noting that pupils at independent schools are far more likely to be driven to school in a private motor vehicle than those attending state schools: transport statistics bear this out, including the 'Hands Up' survey of school children conducted annually across Scotland.</p> <p>"43.8% of independent school pupils said they normally travel to school by car compared to 21.6% of state school pupils."</p> <p>I make that more than double the % of pupils coming in parents' vehicles. That's the national figure, for Edinburgh the comparison is even more stark: 45.5% of independent school pupils arrive by car, compared with just 8.7% at state secondaries and 18.9% at state primaries. Even nursery schools have a lower car driving rate at 38.5%. This may reflect distance from school but it's still worth noting the disparity.</p> <p><a href="http://www.sustrans.org.uk/scotland/what-we-do/schools-and-universities/hands-scotland" rel="nofollow">http://www.sustrans.org.uk/scotland/what-we-do/schools-and-universities/hands-scotland</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208962 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:32:59 +0000 GDR 208962@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I agree that the parking near Watsons is pretty poor, though mainly on the blind corner as one approaches Balcarres Street or comes down the bike lane from Morningside Drive which then gets blocked by parked cars and vans. The cars here are always parked so I suspect it is non-Watson traffic. Also, please refrain from the unthinking tiresome inverse snobbery about Watsons parents and their "little darlings". I have had plenty of close shaves when passing other schools, private or not. It seems to me that ignorance and a sense of entitlement attaches to all sorts of people/parents who drive. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208958 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 15:24:07 +0000 crowriver 208958@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>How is this a "key arterial route" exactly? Or even a "key road"? It's nothing of the kind. Unless you are a parent dropping your darlings off at Watson's, that is.</p> <p>I suppose "handy rat run for Morningside motorists to get to the West End" doesn't make for such an appealing strap line...</p> <p>Does EEN churnalist J Connell live in Morningside? I think we should be told. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208953 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:46:38 +0000 chdot 208953@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Now contractor Morrison Construction has announced that it will be shutting a section of the same road – which runs through the George Watson College campus</p> <p>"</p> <p>Interesting spin by someone.</p> <p>Or 'busy rat run clogged with cars delivering children to a school that happens to have playing fields on the other side and has installed a pedestrian bridge to remove need(?) for parents to stop on this road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15943#post-208949 Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:26:20 +0000 jdanielp 208949@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Headline: "key road shuts"</p> <p>Article: "key city road will be partly closed"</p> <p>The temporary lights provided an opportunity to (fairly) safely filter to the front of the queue, something that isn't always achievable at the Colinton Road junction. </p>