http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Modal shift - potential/reality en Tue, 19 May 2026 08:39:38 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212315 Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:08:19 +0000 crowriver 212315@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Surprised sandal wearing not also included?"</p> <p>You forgot the hand-knitted tofu. Or maybe it would be organic free trade quinoa these days? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212310 Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:01:16 +0000 chdot 212310@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"so I'm taking the local authority levels with a pinch of salt"</p> <p>Well I find this hard to believe -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Cycling locally<br /> Cycling as a main mode of travel is highest in Dundee [4.2%], Edinburgh [4.2%] and Orkney Islands [3.4%].</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212296 Wed, 17 Feb 2016 16:38:16 +0000 sallyhinch 212296@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>the latest Annual Cycling Monitoring report is out <a href="http://www.cyclingscotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2892-Annual-Monitoring-Report-2016-00000002.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cyclingscotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2892-Annual-Monitoring-Report-2016-00000002.pdf</a></p> <p>From what I can see, there has been a miniscule uptick in overall cycling levels and a slightly larger increase in the amount of kms cycled. They do seem to have scratched around a bit to find some statistics that look like success, but perhaps that's me being cynical. The headline measure of '1.4%' appears to be those using cycling as their main/usual mode of travel, rather than actual mode share and it bounces around quite a lot, from year to year, suggesting that there's quite a large margin of error. </p> <p>The figures are mostly based on the Scottish Household Surveys which, if I recall correctly, might only include 100 or so households per local authority area, so I'm taking the local authority levels with a pinch of salt. </p> <p>Overall you could say that there has been a small but noticeable increase in spending on cycling in recent years, which has resulted in a small and possibly illusory increase in cycling levels. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212195 Tue, 16 Feb 2016 22:40:06 +0000 I were right about that saddle 212195@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo</p> <p>I'd come here if I was Polish. Use windmills to battle religion &amp; co. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212065 Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:56:04 +0000 gembo 212065@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surprised sandal wearing not also included?</p> <p>Fascinating article on Poland though. The guy. Who is the president claims Poland is run by former communists and is not free, yet he is the president. When he cannot find enemies at home he looks abroad. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212060 Tue, 16 Feb 2016 08:10:01 +0000 I were right about that saddle 212060@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Modal shift may be slow in Poland where the guv'mint has just condemned;</p> <p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/conspiracy-theorists-who-have-taken-over-poland">'a new mixture of cultures and races, a world made up of cyclists and vegetarians, who only use renewable energy and who battle all signs of religion'</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-212009 Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:05:47 +0000 paulmilne 212009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Mobility issues", see my comment on the other thread about the Equality Act. If protected bike lanes allow disability scooters then making them route the long way around or mixing with traffic could be seen as discriminatory and/or unsafe. Same for disabled people on bikes/trikes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211879 Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:47:50 +0000 crowriver 211879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, but <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15760&amp;page=42">according to economic development supremo Cllr Ross</a>, it's not about cycling, "t's about local communities,the elderly,those with mobility issues, public transport etc."</p> <p>So there. That's us telt. I mean, who can possibly argue against the interests of "local communities,the elderly,those with mobility issues, public transport etc." ? The very idea! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211867 Sat, 13 Feb 2016 14:26:48 +0000 kenny 211867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was reading <a href="http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0048/00488493.pdf">Cleaner Air For Scotland</a> and note on page 42 that if every bus journey (9%) suddenly became a cycle journey (1%), then 10% of journeys would be by bike.</p> <p>This illustrates the scale of the challenge the government faces and highlights how little they're doing to actually achieve the 10%.</p> <p>A nice metaphor for the general public? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211262 Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:28:42 +0000 crowriver 211262@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"If only there was a cure."</p> <p>Apparently, it's electric cars. The methadone of motoring. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211259 Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:26:40 +0000 chdot 211259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"they're very car dependant you know"</p> <p>If only there was a cure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211253 Sun, 07 Feb 2016 13:56:12 +0000 crowriver 211253@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@IWRATS, "I'd guess that the main issue is the association of car use with social aspiration. "</p> <p>Maybe in the 1960s/70s. Nowadays driving a car is just normal. Any other transport mode is abnormal and/or lower status, e.g.. taking the bus, cycling.</p> <p>That said, Edinburgh is a bit exceptional in the Scottish context: walking, taking the bus and even cycling are much more normal than in most other places. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211249 Sun, 07 Feb 2016 13:45:30 +0000 daisydaisy 211249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For modal shift to happen attitudes need to change. It made me smile yesterday, when discussing the new cycle path proposal. My friend said slightly disapprovingly of someone opposed to it -"they're very car dependant you know". My friend's more 'normal' than me, drives sometimes, cycles occasionally, but she gets it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211218 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 16:46:03 +0000 chdot 211218@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"is this how the forum is supposed to work?"</p> <p>Well you'd hope so, but some recent posts should perhaps be here -</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16033" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16033</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211216 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 16:43:08 +0000 chdot 211216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"and a short footpath (along the mud desire line) that connects these to the existing footpaths at Glenallan Drive/Dinmont Drive"</p> <p>ABOUT TIME TOO!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211214 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 16:10:05 +0000 I were right about that saddle 211214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@LaidBack</p> <p>That would be too beautiful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211212 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:45:06 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 211212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Laidback Bridgend community farm will hopefully develop into an alternative. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211211 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:42:22 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 211211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@iwrats maintenance isn't perfect (<a href="https://twitter.com/RangiRevo/status/681835069523234817"> I also took action myself to clear a path...</a>)</p> <p>But compared to when I moved here, it's much much better. Lady Susan's walk didn't exist (at least not the entrance, you had to walk all the way around to the recycling centre to get in), and there were usually a couple of burned out cars that weren't removed for months. Still the occasional motorbike now but no longer the regular gangs every weekend. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=3#post-211210 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:42:18 +0000 LaidBack 211210@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@iwrats <em>First step may be to wrest Inch House from the rather unlikely political party into whose hands it has fallen.</em></p> <p>UKIP? Surely not. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211209 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:31:48 +0000 I were right about that saddle 211209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stephan,</p> <p>Yes, when we're out for a jog or a dander on Craigmillar Hill we do like to play guess the nationality. It is indeed rare for the indigenous population to be taking the air and refreshing to see Polish families out with their kids.</p> <p>"The park definitely has improved a lot also thanks to the Rangers keeping the paths tidy"</p> <p>If you turn right immediately after the entrance to Lady Susan's walk from Old Dalkeith Road there's a path that was blocked by a fallen poplar two years ago. It's on one of my training runs and I got fed up waiting for it to be moved so got busy with a bow saw. Nearly recruited a work crew just from passers-by. The will is there and I would like to see the Inch functioning as a community. First step may be to wrest Inch House from the rather unlikely political party into whose hands it has fallen.</p> <p>"is this how the forum is supposed to work?"</p> <p>You'll soon see that your new thread gets onto a discussion about the relative merits of samphire and quince. <em>That's</em> how the forum is meant to work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211208 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:31:08 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 211208@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So I started an Inch thread now so that this can co back to modal shifts - is this how the forum is supposed to work?</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16033&amp;replies=1#post-211207" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16033&amp;replies=1#post-211207</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211206 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:16:59 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 211206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@iwrats Thanks for the background info, that's also my impression. Interesting to hear about all the "hidden" cyclists - we should form a Inch user group?</p> <p>Interesting you mention European families. A friend (UK native) commented to me at Christmas that Craigmillar Park has become much more lively because of "the Polish families, it's just normal for them to go out to the park with their kids". The park definitely has improved a lot also thanks to the Rangers keeping the paths tidy and the playground, you see lots of people there (although I haven't checked their passports/nationalities...). </p> <p>Lidl is full of Polish people and occasional Germans, and from the Inch it's so convenient to cycle or walk through Craigmillar Park to Lidl.</p> <p>@chdot Crossing Old Dalkeith Road: We will get dropped kerbs at the two little houses at the Recycling Centre Road in the next few months, and a short footpath (along the mud desire line) that connects these to the existing footpaths at Glenallan Drive/Dinmont Drive. It's not perfect, but should make crossing there much much much easier, and you don't have to cycle up ODR to get into Walter Scott Av </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211204 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 14:23:40 +0000 chdot 211204@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Retweeted by Andrew Burns</p> <p>"</p> <p>Rangifer Revolution (@RangiRevo)<br /> 04/02/2016, 13:23<br /> Now sometimes even see cycling in Craigmillar/Inch. Centre is easy, 1950s suburbs real test @AndrewDBurns @StartOnFriday @edinburgh @LAHinds</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211203 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:50:37 +0000 chdot 211203@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Next step a new thread on here - 'cycling around The Inch'.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211202 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:41:23 +0000 I were right about that saddle 211202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Give them an Inch and they'll go for Miles!</p> <p>Forgot to mention - the bike stands at the Walter Scott shops currently have one of the saddest fossilised BSOs I've ever seen. Full-suss 'mountain' bike, with the rear chain stays labelled 'Bose', presumably as a nod to the great Franch brand <a href="http://www.bosmtb.com/">Bos</a>.</p> <p>@Weezee is sometimes spotted on the Urban Arrow in the Inch - must get a fair few odd looks. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211200 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:27:07 +0000 chdot 211200@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting background info </p> <p>"I have no idea what to do about either other than just building proper cycle lanes and letting people find them."</p> <p>A proper walk/cycle crossing of Old Dalkeith Road would be a good start - linking to Craigmillar Country Park and on to the Innocent and back way into RIE. </p> <p>Next step a new thread on here - 'cycling around The Inch'. </p> <p>Make them 'built it' - and the incomers will come! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211199 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:18:00 +0000 I were right about that saddle 211199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>*Waves to Stephan, Roibeard and newtoit*</p> <p>The Inch is a funny old place. It dates from the early fifties and was initially used principally to house people from the Caltongate tennements, but also included special purpose housing for certain professions. There's a street that originally housed only police officers for instance.</p> <p>When it was built it was used as a test-bed for council housing prototypes. It's for this reason that there are rows with copper-sheathed roofs, rows with pan-tiles and rows with slates. The build quality of the houses is superb - hard Niddrie brick - and the garden spaces are generous.</p> <p>The combination has led to a very interesting 'community'. The last of the original inhabitants are still on the go, but ageing. Their children have often inherited the houses after they were sold by the council - very few are still in municipal hands. Because the area has a reputation for being slightly tasty (it's actually anything but) the houses were quite cheap and for a while now professionals have been moving in to get the garden space and good bus links and access to the green spaces. </p> <p>So, you have a mix of old school working class and their kids (often in trades) alongside slightly hippyish bourgeois types. There are many European citizens too. So what of cycling and walking?</p> <p>The original population include some people who used to cycle as recreation, back when cycle clubs were aligned with left-wing politics and associated with the working class. They don't cycle now because they can't or see bikes as low status. Their kids don't seem to cycle at all once they're adult though they do mope about on bikes when they're younger.</p> <p>Beside that there are several hard-core bicylist households. I know of six, but there will be many more. They're all 'incomers' as far as I can make out.</p> <p>The Inch is of course perfect cycling distance from town - it's a casual cycle but a long walk. However, there are some real physical obstacles in the shape of the Lady Road junctions and the slope to the south up to Gilmerton. I never see anyone cycling to the high school.</p> <p>I'd guess that the main issue is the association of car use with social aspiration. There's also, I suspect, a feminist issue in the perceived incompatibility of a highly-groomed appearance with wind, rain and chain-oil. I have no idea what to do about either other than just building proper cycle lanes and letting people find them. It would make a great pilot project. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211142 Fri, 05 Feb 2016 19:30:46 +0000 Ed1 211142@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>31. My teenage niece was complaining about the high costs of motor insurance on the Book of Faces. I tried to convince her that in the amount of time it took her to earn the money to pay for the car and all of its requirements, she could walk the same distance.<br /> Needless to say, she didn't get it...”</p> <p>The effective speed concept (time of hours worked to pay for car), the problem with this concept is unless someone can chose the number of hours work a week then the hours walked would be on top of hours worked. It may be that someone would rather have the hours the same and pay a cost. So it may still make rational sense if little flexibility in hours worked if on say a fixed 44 hours a week to spend money on a car to save hours walked/cycled. If someone reduced hours to 38 may have the same amount of time and hours but the employer may not offer this. </p> <p>The concept for most people could be turned as a minus of hours you have spare a week (as little flexibility on hours worked), this would be increased marginal utility of the remaining hours with each loss. The shape of utility function may mean that people will pay several times and hours worked for each hour worked. Imagine in theory a CEO or something working 70 hours a week, what would an hour be worth to them, many times an hours pay quite possibly. The effective speed concept does not take in to account, rigid hours or the or changing marginal utility.</p> <p>Even in the hypothetical if someone can changes hours worked It’s quite possible the utility does not meet on hour for hour basis. Even if made it zero sum game ( in respect to hours the hour worked always equalled hour on bike no gains or losses of hours overall some may rather be at work) there be preference time on bike.<br /> If not zero sum someone that does not like cycling may rather spend an hour and half at work for an hour cycling someone that does not may rather trade 20 minutes of work for an extra 40 minute commute. For some may be how pleasant the hours are, an hour in work someone could be on phone, smoking, eating a sandwich, writing an email, watching tv, whereas on a bike this may be more problematic. For car ownership if consider it a yes or no (car non divisible) , what makes up the utility curve the trade-off have to clear in a narrow window that is commuting distance to work because of the likely variation in curves for many it’s unlikely that would meet in window unless live near work. For example if the car is a yes or no it may be many people would not want to cycle 23 hours to work and have 21 hours at work. Of course if the car was divisible so could have certain amount of car, with hire car or sharing may be bigger window.<br /> If could vary hours worked, distance to work, and how much car you had then could work beautifully. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211133 Fri, 05 Feb 2016 18:28:46 +0000 Rob 211133@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice to know the council are open to suggestions for bike parking. I wonder if they're open to suggestions which are currently used as car parking. Something like the "Solo M/Cs" spaces on George Street but with proper racks.</p> <p>It wouldn't hurt to reduce the amount of car parking anyway, that's what really creates congestion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211124 Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:22:42 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 211124@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot: They were (partly) reinstalled and are now next to the phone box opposite the Scotmid. In my opinion a much better place than the narrow pavement right in front of the shop, so please leave them there... (In fact I suggested this location on Twitter at the time but I don't know if this was the reason for moving).</p> <p>The only issue is to also have some racks on the other end, at the betting shop, and perhaps in the middle. Again i would suggest to have them on the island, not on the footpath, so that they are out of the way and not get damaged again. </p>