http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Help ban pavement parking on Scotland’s pavements in 2016" en Mon, 06 Apr 2026 00:34:59 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028&page=2#post-234424 Thu, 20 Oct 2016 16:34:50 +0000 crowriver 234424@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep, pretty much.</p> <p>A bit like:</p> <p>"We are giving full and due consideration to working in partnership with all stakeholders towards the shared vision."</p> <p>(Active travel/cycling). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028&page=2#post-234419 Thu, 20 Oct 2016 13:49:57 +0000 ih 234419@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"...undertake a full review and stakeholder consultation later this year...." is the long grass. "...taking account of the complexities of implementation and enforcement." is, you can forget it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-234418 Thu, 20 Oct 2016 13:19:39 +0000 Morningsider 234418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Footway Parking and Double Parking (Scotland) Bill fell on dissolution of Session 4 of the Scottish Parliament – ending its progress through Parliament. </p> <p>There was some debate as to whether the Bill was within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. This was cleared up by the Scotland Act 2016, which devolved regulation of parking on roads, as set out in the Road Traffic Act 1988, to the Scottish Parliament. </p> <p>The Scottish Parliament now has the power to legislate on matters such as pavement parking, double parking and parking in front of dropped kerbs. </p> <p>The Scottish Government's "Programme for Government 2016-17" contained a commitment to:</p> <p>"...undertake a full review and stakeholder consultation later this year to develop the necessary legislation to promote responsible parking for all, taking account of the complexities of implementation and enforcement."</p> <p>Is that long grass I see over there? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-234414 Thu, 20 Oct 2016 12:09:48 +0000 gibbo 234414@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was giving the transport minister stick on twitter for this a month or so ago. He implied the bill is still live and the SNP are pushing it through.</p> <p>Attach to that whatever hope or cynicism you want. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-234402 Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:09:27 +0000 chdot 234402@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Previously </p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6749" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6749</a></p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14848" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14848</a></p> <p>Don't know if this is 'true' or it's been revived/updated/replaced</p> <p>"</p> <p>A Bill for an Act of the Scottish Parliament to make provision for the restriction of parking on footways and at dropped footways, and double parking. </p> <p>Current Status of the Bill</p> <p>This Member's Bill was introduced by Sandra White MSP on 21 May 2015. The Bill fell on 23 March 2016, following dissolution of Session 4 of the Parliament.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/89353.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/89353.aspx</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-234400 Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:00:32 +0000 Stickman 234400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At last night's Corstorphine Community Council there were a lot of comments about the problem of pavement parking. Frank Ross said "don't worry, in two months the parliament will have made it illegal and it can be dealt with*". </p> <p>I've not heard anything about this bill recently - does anyone know what's going on? </p> <p>*making the assumption that the law will be enforced </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-215136 Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:47:32 +0000 Charlethepar 215136@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In celebration of the public debate about pavement parking, this morning at the Scottish Government, they bring you a car parked on the pavement* (*not technically a pavement in law, but the symbolism of a car invading space set aside for pedestrians is clear.)</p> <p><img src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByVRgsWd9ioSQUFBb19fcXRZQU0/view?usp=sharing"><br /> <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByVRgsWd9ioSQUFBb19fcXRZQU0/view?usp=sharing">pic</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213376 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 18:17:07 +0000 crowriver 213376@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih, yes it's all too reminiscent of the SNP government's attitudes towards "targets" in certain areas, e.g. climate change, active travel.</p> <p>They either redefine target into "vision", then "shared ambition". or they say it's a matter for local authorities to implement. All the while enacting policies centrally which have the opposite effect.</p> <p>In a nutshell, it's paying lip service to policies they know they "ought to be doing something about" but which are not part of their core beliefs, have no political support, and therefore are seen as a "nice to have" or even a mildly irritating irrelevance foisted upon them by other parties or previous administrations.</p> <p>Pretty sure pavement parking will, once more, fall into this category... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213344 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:33:37 +0000 mgj 213344@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@edd1e_h there is another way; illegally parked cars could be fair game for neds to take out their windows and wing mirrors, or walk straight over them. Not to be covered by insurance or the police. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213320 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 00:36:19 +0000 ih 213320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I happened upon this blog post which tells the story of how a ban on pavement parking was passed into law in 1974, but never implemented and then finally repealed. It's worth getting to, or skipping to, the Postscript which explains that it isn't even illegal to park in a <u>mandatory</u> cycle lane; does anyone know if it is illegal in Scotland? The main story doesn't bode well for any legislation being considered now.</p> <p><a href="http://pedestrianliberation.org/2011/08/07/the-sorry-tale-of-the-road-traffic-act-1974/" rel="nofollow">http://pedestrianliberation.org/2011/08/07/the-sorry-tale-of-the-road-traffic-act-1974/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213284 Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:22:12 +0000 neddie 213284@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>...it hasn't stopped pavement parking there</em></p> <p>The only chance we've got of this legislation actually having an effect is if the ban on pavement parking can be enforced by regular traffic wardens. Otherwise, nothing will change. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213282 Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:07:07 +0000 ih 213282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Stephan Your two 'dropped kerb' situations highlight some of the problems with definition.</p> <p>Seems to me that the law could say there is NO parking by ANY dropped kerb. Simple definition, but the counter-argument will be that it is too restrictive.</p> <p>So if you try to define a set of exemptions to allow people (and their permitted visitors) to park and block their own driveway, you immediately run into complications that will make enforcement practically impossible. And furthermore, the road authorities do not want to allow anything which could give householders the idea that they had any proprietorial rights over that bit of road outside their own house.</p> <p>London has a ban on pavement parking (and also Aberdeen??) Not sure how this problem was finessed in London, but I know from observation that it hasn't stopped pavement parking there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213253 Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:59:39 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 213253@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih "Two, the definition of dropped kerb. Does it include the drop outside someone's own driveway? If it does, would the occupant or their visitors be able to park on the road by that drop. (...) that means no one can park there."</p> <p>I seem to remember reading in the English proposals that there was a provision that property owners can allow people to park at dropped kerbs in front of their house. </p> <p>Reading that, I actually had the opposite concern. Two situations: Outside my house is a dropped kerb for crossing the road (it's not my driveway). So could I just allow some random person to park there and block the pedestrian path? The legislation would have to be clear how to define somebody's "private" dropped kerb from a "public" dropped kerb in front of the house.</p> <p>Second: I know a couple of paths that don't have dropped kerbs at the end but one can use the dropped kerb of the neighbouring properties' driveways. So these "private" dropped kerbs are actually very important and shouldn't be blocked. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213228 Tue, 01 Mar 2016 22:01:54 +0000 ih 213228@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wholeheartedly approve of this legislation but having read the SG report, posted by Klaxon upthread, I can see two issues that will kick it into the long grass.</p> <p>One, the scourge of parking is so bad now that if cars were to park on the road (as opposed to the pavement) there would be no space for moving vehicles on many urban roads, and we know that is all-important don't we?</p> <p>Two, the definition of dropped kerb. Does it include the drop outside someone's own driveway? If it does, would the occupant or their visitors be able to park on the road by that drop. That might seem reasonable, but the authorities are hugely resistant to giving any occupant any idea that they have a right to that bit of kerbside outside their house, so that means no one can park there.</p> <p>I can't see any solutions to these issues. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-213225 Tue, 01 Mar 2016 21:15:39 +0000 crowriver 213225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Holyrood backs bill to ban pavement parking</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35702721" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35702721</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212910 Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:38:16 +0000 threefromleith 212910@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They'll implement something with so many exemptions that to all intents and purposes they'll legalise pavement parking. Just you wait and see..</p> <p>(Or perhaps I'm feeling a tad too cynical and pessimistic today!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212873 Thu, 25 Feb 2016 00:28:28 +0000 acsimpson 212873@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Let's hope they use the powers once they have them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212854 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 19:50:23 +0000 HankChief 212854@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35648872">Holyrood to be handed powers to tackle problem parking</a></p> <p>Looks positive... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212846 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:42:24 +0000 urchaidh 212846@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The porty facebook group has a thread... </em></p> <p>Abandon all hope ye who enter here. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212843 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:37:16 +0000 HankChief 212843@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"</p> <p>You have previously contacted the Scotland Office on the subject of irresponsible parking on pavements.</p> <p> </p> <p>As you are aware, there have been several attempts to take forward legislation in the Scottish Parliament to deal with the issue of inconsiderate and irresponsible parking. However these have been unsuccessful due to questions over the legal competence of the Scottish Parliament in this area.</p> <p> </p> <p>The Secretary of State for Scotland has been committed to resolving this matter, and the UK Government and Scottish Government officials have been working together to discuss the detail of this issue.</p> <p> </p> <p>As a result of positive discussions the UK Government has tabled amendments to the current Scotland Bill in the House of Lords. These amendments, which will be debated at Report stage later today are designed to answer the questions of legal competence, by making it clear that the Scottish Parliament has the powers necessary to take forward future legislation relating to parking in the way that it sees fit.</p> <p> </p> <p>I hope that you find this information useful.</p> <p>"</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212839 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 12:57:10 +0000 jonty 212839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting stuff. Working link (for me) below :)</p> <p><a href="http://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?q=select%20col20%3E%3E1%20from%201BjNJk7u1-D2Xl4Fm9IsFxEg_yZ7znt6_NerCBFY4&amp;viz=MAP&amp;h=false&amp;lat=55.86475894977276&amp;lng=-4.235756078613235&amp;t=1&amp;z=11&amp;l=col20%3E%3E1&amp;y=2&amp;tmplt=2&amp;hml=GEOCODABLE" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?q=select%20col20%3E%3E1%20from%201BjNJk7u1-D2Xl4Fm9IsFxEg_yZ7znt6_NerCBFY4&amp;viz=MAP&amp;h=false&amp;lat=55.86475894977276&amp;lng=-4.235756078613235&amp;t=1&amp;z=11&amp;l=col20%3E%3E1&amp;y=2&amp;tmplt=2&amp;hml=GEOCODABLE</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-212750 Tue, 23 Feb 2016 14:30:45 +0000 rust 212750@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The porty facebook group has a thread running on the local implications for this - boils down to it already being difficult to park so we can't possibly stop people parking on pavements. </p> <p>It did however mean someone posted a link to this map: <a href="http://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?q=select%20col20&#038;gt;&#038;gt;1%20from%201BjNJk7u1-D2Xl4Fm9IsFxEg_yZ7znt6_NerCBFY4&amp;viz=MAP&amp;h=false&amp;lat=55.86475894977276&amp;lng=-4.235756078613235&amp;t=1&amp;z=11&amp;l=col20&#038;gt;&#038;gt;1&amp;y=2&amp;tmplt=2&amp;hml=GEOCODABLE" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?q=select%20col20&#038;gt;&#038;gt;1%20from%201BjNJk7u1-D2Xl4Fm9IsFxEg_yZ7znt6_NerCBFY4&amp;viz=MAP&amp;h=false&amp;lat=55.86475894977276&amp;lng=-4.235756078613235&amp;t=1&amp;z=11&amp;l=col20&#038;gt;&#038;gt;1&amp;y=2&amp;tmplt=2&amp;hml=GEOCODABLE</a></p> <p>Showing car ownership data. You can click for more details. It's interesting that although not every household has a car the average number of cars per household tends to one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211353 Mon, 08 Feb 2016 13:47:11 +0000 crowriver 211353@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"20. Double parking was also highlighted as blocking the visibility of pedestrians when crossing a road and pushing cyclists further out into the road. Many respondents, however, suggested that double parking is less of a problem than it was several years ago."</p> <p>Not on my street it isn't! It has got much worse.</p> <p>Is Leith Walk better or worse than a few years ago for double parking?</p> <p>"26. In its written submission, Police Scotland notes that the law relating to double parking is covered by the Police Vehicles (Construction and Use Regulations) 1986 and Roads (Scotland) Act 1984.15 Again, we note that this is a criminal offence and consequently not a power available to parking attendants in decriminalised parking enforcement areas."</p> <p>There we have it. Double parkers are CRIMINALS.</p> <p>However:</p> <p>"33. We note that there is some existing legislative provision to restrict parking on a footway, adjacent to a dropped kerb or double parking. We do consider, however, that the legislative landscape on this issue is complex and confusing. We agree that the consolidation and clarification of legislation is required. We also consider that the law needs to be amended so that both Police Scotland and local authority parking attendants have the same powers to tackle this issue."</p> <p>Finally...</p> <p>"101. The Minister confirmed—<br /> Following agreement with the United Kingdom Government, we are working to resolve the issues via the Scotland Bill. The intention is to introduce suitable exceptions to the list of reserved matters in schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 in order to remove any doubt about legislative competence in the area. […] However, it is extremely unlikely that any legislative competence alterations will be in force before the Scottish Parliament is dissolved in March 2016. Therefore, it is my strong preference that, while we work to resolve the legislative competence issues, the focus should now shift to the development of a Scottish Government bill, to be introduced in the next parliamentary session, once the legislative competence issues have been resolved."</p> <p>In other words, go ahead and propose this, but we can't do anything just now because Westminster reasons. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211351 Mon, 08 Feb 2016 13:13:41 +0000 Luath 211351@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Klaxon, thanks for the link. I'm flabbergasted by two comments in there:<br /> "the RHA [Road Haulage Association] also questioned whether the 20 minute allowance was enough, highlighting delivery drivers are now often required to connect up, or assemble, goods they have delivered."<br /> Well, as soon as you've unloaded the goods you can move your vehicle to where it's not causing an obstruction and then return on foot to connect and assemble.</p> <p>"We [the committee] consider that 20 minutes is not an unreasonable length of time for someone who needs to use a dropped kerb to cross a road to wait for a delivery vehicle to move on."<br /> 20 minute wait to cross a road is not unreasonable?! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211341 Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:13:20 +0000 Klaxon 211341@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/96529.aspx">Report on the online/written consultation is out</a></p> <p>It's pretty jargon free and accessible, so good for a quick skim. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211340 Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:04:32 +0000 crowriver 211340@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"One caller did crash into the consensus to point out that pavement cycling was a far greater priority"</p> <p>That's just a diversionary tactic from a driver feeling the pressure. "It's not we drivers who are the bad ones, it's perfectly reasonable to park on the pavement, especially when you consider the dire shortage of parking immediately adjacent to where we want to go. Anyway, look over there at that evil <em>cyclist</em> on the pavement! Outrageous!" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211329 Mon, 08 Feb 2016 11:46:58 +0000 LaidBack 211329@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Radio Scotland morning phone-in just covered this.<br /> 90% supportive of the bill to ban pavement parking with legal action. </p> <p>Sandra White MSP was on and spoke a lot of sense.</p> <p>One caller did crash into the consensus to point out that pavement cycling was a far greater priority. Just shows you the 'fear of cycling' mood - Louise White had told her before that this was not the subject for discussion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211215 Sat, 06 Feb 2016 16:37:19 +0000 I were right about that saddle 211215@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"they need to be scrapped....(with the driver in them or not)"</p> <p>The <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15710#post-203577">ravens </a>applaud this bold new move. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211109 Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:22:59 +0000 mgj 211109@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Towing vehicles is not enough; they need to be scrapped if found illegally on the pavement (with the driver in them or not).</p> <p>Anyway, isn't a car parked on a pavement just enabling dual use? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16028#post-211070 Fri, 05 Feb 2016 12:00:30 +0000 neddie 211070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The important thing here is that it needs to be enforced by regular traffic wardens by means of tickets.</p> <p>If it is left up to the police to enforce, then nothing will change. </p>