http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: New trains for Edinburgh-Glasgow en Tue, 19 May 2026 16:29:03 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260755 Sun, 17 Sep 2017 09:15:02 +0000 Klaxon 260755@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Have only ridden a western region HST once so happy to find out they're better than the ECML ones. The ride has been pretty much my only concern. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260754 Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:40:36 +0000 Arellcat 260754@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I once clocked a HST at 129mph; that was the fastest speed I recorded (with Garmin). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260751 Sun, 17 Sep 2017 01:50:19 +0000 Tulyar 260751@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Or an interesting tendency to the +5% of the +/- 5% as the<br /> GPS speedo app or the Garmin clocks 131mph, as you read off the train speed on your journey (as you do) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260747 Sat, 16 Sep 2017 23:43:00 +0000 Arellcat 260747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can recommend OS Nock's "Two Miles a Minute" if you want exhaustive detail on the story of HST bogie design.</p> <p>(I actually bought it for the APT content, but the HST is pretty much 90% of the book) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260744 Sat, 16 Sep 2017 22:05:03 +0000 Tulyar 260744@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Mk 3 coaches have a coil spring primary suspension and airbag secondary. Coil springs, unlike leaf springs have no 'rubbing effect between the leaves that acts like a damper, so added damping comes in the form of shock absorbers, attached through rubber bushes, and these wear out, some earlier designs faster than others. VTEC especially had 'bad' parts and these deliver a 'zebedee' ride as the carriage pitches as it moves over undulating track. GWR HST's have been using a better model of damper unit </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260724 Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:45:33 +0000 crowriver 260724@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the article:</p> <p>Nigel Harris, managing editor of RAIL magazine, said: "Don't be fooled by all this 'old train' nonsense. The HSTs are great trains as they stand right now. Once they have been refurbished, they will be 'as new' and offer some of the best quality long-distance travel in the UK. They will play a key role in giving Scotland not only the railway it deserves but the best railway it's ever had. If passengers don't love them I'll eat my hat."</p> <p>Good for you, Nigel Harris!</p> <p>I like HSTs personally. Plenty of leg room usually and a good solid feel about them. I Hate the Virgin Pendolinos with a vengeance (though First Class is quite nice). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260700 Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:53:26 +0000 Klaxon 260700@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>He's been quite keen to bang the 40 year old drum the last few days</p> <p>I might sometimes agree the HST/Mk3s are long in the tooth, particularly if you're sat on old bogies I find they ride very badly, but as cascades go this is a top tier catch.</p> <p>Careful what you wish for </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-260698 Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:48:13 +0000 chdot 260698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>It will be used for driver training over the next few months, but has still to be refurbished before entering passenger service.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/40-year-old-train-destined-for-scotrail-catches-fire-1-4559836/amp" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/40-year-old-train-destined-for-scotrail-catches-fire-1-4559836/amp</a></p> <p>Any info on cycle space(s)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-239546 Wed, 21 Dec 2016 11:57:17 +0000 Klaxon 239546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seemingly still time to lobby for improved layouts if necessary </p> <p><a href="http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/testing-begins-with-class-385s-due-in-traffic-next-september" rel="nofollow">http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/testing-begins-with-class-385s-due-in-traffic-next-september</a></p> <p>"<strong>He said that interiors will be finalised in February, and that the first four trains to receive them will be T5 and T6 in Kasado (Japan) and T7 and T8 in Newton Aycliffe.</strong>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216212 Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:40:30 +0000 crowriver 216212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Good that the bike space is equivalent to the 380s. This is what I had assumed, and I find the system quite manageable on the North Berwick or Bathgate services. Also worth noting that sometimes bikes are bungeed to the hand rail near the disabled loos: I've done this before with a bike + tagalong tandem on Bathgate service, no hassle from the conductor either. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216125 Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:25:50 +0000 gembo 216125@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for this info tulyar. Also Easter egg at end. I always wondered how the peloton returned from dunwich which is a long way from London on busy roads </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216123 Sat, 09 Apr 2016 03:30:05 +0000 Tulyar 216123@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Apologies for missing this and niot getting the nudge from @chdot or @arellcat. Tou've just missed a presentation to CRAG by Jon Veitch of Hitachi on the AT200.</p> <p>However an appeal goes out to get a bit more recognition and oompfh behind the Scotrail Cycling Forum - unlike the Anglia and Northern ones it has no regular presence from any Scottish Council, or local cycling groups.</p> <p>Spokes (Ewan) attends and presses the tandems issue, I try to get there for Cycling UK, and we usually see a Cycling Scotland, Paths for All or Sustrans presence but not on such a regular basis.</p> <p>Discussion on the protocol for HST boarding has been taking place, as the access to the van space on the 125mph tramcar (relating to the racket the traction motor drives make - liaka tram only faster and noisier) will not be available at intermediate stations from outside, and through the train without staff unlocking the connecting door.</p> <p>Technically (the PRM TSI regulations) the wheelchair spaces are inviolate and the MUST be 2 per train of more than 2 coaches - that means no bags bikes prams etc can use the space .. in theory. However I'm pretty sure commonsense prevails in most cases - until there is a spat with a PRM (wheelchair user) denied access to the space or a guard ticked off by a nit-picking superior...</p> <p>Scotrail (and Transport Scotland) manage the approvals for Scottish trains, including the safety case for cycle carriage in each type of train (ROGS - Rail &amp; Other Guided Systems). The key issue for safety is controlling excursions within the train, especially in a crash, so that bikes don't fly around and passengers flying around don't land on bikes. </p> <p>The space on the new trains is comparable with that on the Class 380 (5 tip-up seats, roll in access from door vestibule). Layered 'herringbone' this takes 4-5 bikes, and it is long enough for a tandem (2.3-2.5m). </p> <p>Stacking/hanging 2-high may be (unofficially) possible, a detail which might be developed in time. </p> <p>Last year I observed bikes coming of trains at GLQ and counted at least 32 bikes off a 6 coach train, which seemed about right - 12 doorways @ 2 per door and 4 bikes spaces @ 2 per space's</p> <p>For a separate post POP-ing home on 23/04 plus bike carrying coach services.</p> <p>Worth noting too that for the Dunwich Dynamo Abellio tweaks the Norwich-London trains to stop for 10 minutes at Ipswich on that day, where pre marshalled groups of 50 bikes &amp; riders are loaded per train. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216038 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:40:29 +0000 chdot 216038@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I'd like to see a return to "speed whiskers"."</p> <p>White multiple ones??</p> <p><a href="http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Colourful-high-speed-Deltics-futuristic-vision/story-19896865-detail/story.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Colourful-high-speed-Deltics-futuristic-vision/story-19896865-detail/story.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216037 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 17:36:41 +0000 gembo 216037@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I used to work in glasgow and get the second last train back after my shift finished (11pm) Indeed I was often allowed to knock off 15 mins early to catch clockwork orange from hillhead at 10.45 which just about got you on the 11 o'clock, bno gates etc in those days. Because I had been scarred for life by the antics on the last train. [People not getting off at Haymerket if you know what I mean, Pete Kravitz nice londoner who was the new edinburgh review editor trying to eat a fish supper when drunk etc] Horrible images.</p> <p>On the plus side Glasgow had shut up sho, I caught he late train and arrived in Edinburgh just as things were getting going. Liquor licencing being more liberal through here, later opening and selling bevvy in fish and chip shops etc </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216032 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:56:43 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 216032@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tim Peake had a brilliant night out in Wigan, was getting the train to Oldham, and look where he ended up. Now <em>that</em> is a good night. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216030 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:52:37 +0000 The Boy 216030@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely if it's a *really* good night you wake up in a foreign country with no idea of which train you took? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216029 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:51:32 +0000 kaputnik 216029@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interestingly, changes to railway health and safety regulations means that new trains fitted with daytime running headlights no longer need the ubiquitous BR yellow hi-visibility front.</p> <p>I think operators can now put forward front colours of their own choosing, although not sure if these need approved first before we start putting Thomas the Tank faces on them all.</p> <p>Anyway, these could (potentially) be the first new Scotrail trains without a yellow front. I'd like to see a return to "speed whiskers". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216028 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:46:30 +0000 crowriver 216028@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>' If it's REALLY good, you say "Sod it, we'll get the first train home in the morning". '</p> <p>Nah. If you're having a really good time you'll be getting a train back at some point the next afternoon.....or maybe a couple of days later. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-216026 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:26:28 +0000 gembo 216026@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>currently the last train back is very busy. Aim for second last for sure. Also applies to the other trains (e.g. slow train back from Glasgow was mobbed after the Chvrches Gig last sat, bantz great, everyone very high according to eldest daughter who can jazz up a story no end) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058&page=2#post-215984 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:24:14 +0000 kaputnik 215984@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Actually yes that's sound advice for the quieter life; much less last minute drunks on the 2nd to last train, and much less bags of random Burger King foodstuffs being consumed in the carriage. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215977 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:57:28 +0000 cb 215977@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To make it a really good night out you should aim for the 2nd last train home.</p> <p>Nice and quiet and still time for a cocoa before bed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215973 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:29:56 +0000 kaputnik 215973@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Depends on football matches, concerts etc.</em></p> <p>Nah, it depends how good your night out is going. If it's good, you say "Sod it, we'll get the 3AM Citylink bus.</p> <p>If it's REALLY good, you say "Sod it, we'll get the first train home in the morning". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215972 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:18:33 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 215972@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>According to a friend who used to be a Scotrail driver (as well as helicopter pilot and sous chef...) when he did the Edinburgh - Glasgow route they would frequently be told to skip stations when they got full. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215970 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:05:31 +0000 chdot 215970@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I assume the current 'last train' doesn't often or ever get too full to take passengers?"</p> <p>Depends on football matches, concerts etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215968 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:51:26 +0000 cb 215968@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"That will make the Friday night 11:30PM "time, gentlemen please" express back from nights out additionally fun."</em></p> <p>Only if more seats translates to more drunken revellers (which I suppose it could, although maybe not 100 more?)</p> <p>I assume the current 'last train' doesn't often or ever get too full to take passengers?</p> <p>(In fact, does that <em>ever</em> happen (in Scotland)). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215958 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:07:19 +0000 Arellcat 215958@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It occurs to me now that those schematics, and indeed Chic's blog post, are from a year ago, nearly. I have a feeling (correct or otherwise) that the Scotrail schematics in the drop-in sessions had the train layout reversed, with the bike area to the top-left. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215953 Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:50:19 +0000 kaputnik 215953@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice find, Arellcat.</p> <p>I would observe that the new trains have nearly 100 more seats than existing Edinburgh-Glasgow Turbostars, but no new toilets.</p> <p>That will make the Friday night 11:30PM "time, gentlemen please" express back from nights out additionally fun. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-215906 Wed, 06 Apr 2016 18:11:31 +0000 Arellcat 215906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Found a copy of the layouts for the new trains, by way of the RailUK forum.</p> <p><a href="https://chicgibson.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/a-standard-scottish-emu/" rel="nofollow">https://chicgibson.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/a-standard-scottish-emu/</a></p> <p>Bikes go in the carriage marked 'DMS1'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-212094 Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:52:33 +0000 dougal 212094@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is there somewhere with a conversion table from "carriage type" to "picture of bike rack" because even though I get a train daily I have no memory for these things. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16058#post-212090 Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:39:27 +0000 chdot 212090@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, ta! </p>