http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "The bike business is about to be disrupted on a grand scale" en Sun, 31 May 2026 15:35:18 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-276600 Sat, 03 Mar 2018 01:27:30 +0000 Stickman 276600@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/alastair-dalton-prepare-for-the-electric-bike-revolution-1-4698923" rel="nofollow">https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/alastair-dalton-prepare-for-the-electric-bike-revolution-1-4698923</a></p> <p><em><br /> the big change will come when e-bikes become widely and cheaply available to sample with the launch this summer of Edinburgh’s bike hire scheme, which will include at least 100 e-bikes.</p> <p>Could this be the start of a revolution? And where could it lead? Perhaps one day commuters will leave their cars in park-and-cycle sites and pedal off into a transformed city?"</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-257076 Sat, 12 Aug 2017 08:59:58 +0000 dessert rat 257076@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>beautiful people riding bikes</em></p> <p>they must be been to a PY / not-PY </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-257074 Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:31:59 +0000 paulmilne 257074@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If car companies do decide to go all out for bikes the real game changer is likely to be the increased marketing (ubiquitous Ford/Volvo/Toyota/etc bike adverts showing beautiful people riding bikes in deserted cities) and also the political pressure on government to build infrastructure so more people will feel safe and normal riding bikes and so remove a big barrier to increased sales.</p> <p>I know, a year late to the conversation ... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-257069 Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:09:40 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 257069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"It will become possible to register e-bikes in Northern Ireland from Monday, as is required by law, according to officials."</p> <p><a href="http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dvla-to-register-ebikes-in-northern-ireland-from-monday-36022369.html" rel="nofollow">http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dvla-to-register-ebikes-in-northern-ireland-from-monday-36022369.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-221289 Sat, 28 May 2016 13:43:38 +0000 chdot 221289@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe...</p> <p><a href="http://semcon.com/en/Stories/Case-stories/Case-studies-All/Smart-engine-turns-any-bike-electric" rel="nofollow">http://semcon.com/en/Stories/Case-stories/Case-studies-All/Smart-engine-turns-any-bike-electric</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-220079 Mon, 16 May 2016 14:21:15 +0000 chdot 220079@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Now, after eight years and several failed tries, the manufacturer is readying the biggest change to the basic form of the bike since, well, ever. An electric assist motor co-developed with F1 racing team Williams is on the way. It will include a portable front-pack battery that can also charge your laptop or phone. All that while keeping the bike’s prime advantage — portability — intact.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.ibtimes.com/iconic-brompton-folding-bicycle-going-electric-purists-get-over-it-2369089" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibtimes.com/iconic-brompton-folding-bicycle-going-electric-purists-get-over-it-2369089</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389&page=2#post-219942 Sat, 14 May 2016 18:13:52 +0000 chdot 219942@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"E-bikes change it because people are willing to pay more, the technology is more complex, and existing companies like Bosch have an advantage as they know everything about electric motors."</p> <p>Well yes.</p> <p>It remains to be seen if other companies will join Bosch <em>and also</em> if the existing motor industry will feel the need/desire to join the e-bike market and (try to) expand it significantly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219939 Sat, 14 May 2016 17:37:02 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 219939@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot I can see the point that the bike industry will be shaken up when car manufacturers get involved, but I feel this is very much linked to the question whether e-bikes transform transport. </p> <p>Car companies (or any other big business with the resources to throw huge development teams at a design problem) will only get involved if it pays. They haven't got involved in bicycles in the past because they are too cheap and it would be difficult to recover the development costs. </p> <p>And here I think we are back to the "problem" that a bike is a low-tech machine, and outside performance sports few people are willing to pay much money for minor improvements. It's not that the current designs are perfect, but they are good enough for the job, so there isn't much economic pressure. Cars are also highly regulated, all the environmental and safety laws already require huge research effort, whereas bikes are almost completely unregulated without legal pressure to be perfect.</p> <p>E-bikes change it because people are willing to pay more, the technology is more complex, and existing companies like Bosch have an advantage as they know everything about electric motors. </p> <p>But I can't really see these companies interested in the production of normal bicycles. I can imagine that we'll see a lot of innovation in bicycle parts as spinoff from e-bike development, perhaps finally a proper fully sealed maintenance-free drivetrain etc. but there is a good chance that smaller and medium-sized businesses will continue to play a huge role (for other components and also for assembly).</p> <p>Personal story: One Bosch factory is half a kilometer behind my parents' house. A friend who studied electrical engineering had a summer job there and got hold of a whole box of various motors that hadn't passed their quality control, so we tried to build our own e-bikes by attaching sprockets to the motor and powering it with a huge car battery. It never really worked, but it was fun. </p> <p>That factory now produces various wind turbine parts - another example where car parts manufacturers like Bosch moved in when the industry was big enough to sustain them, after all the small renewable energy tech startups in the 1980s. But Bosch isn't dominating the wind turbine market, there is still a range of companies of different sizes that contribute their bit somewhere. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219930 Sat, 14 May 2016 14:38:30 +0000 chdot 219930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not forgetting a previous car company/bike designer collaboration-</p> <p><a href="http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/chris-boardmans-world-beating-lotus-pursuit-bike-158486" rel="nofollow">http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/chris-boardmans-world-beating-lotus-pursuit-bike-158486</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219925 Sat, 14 May 2016 13:51:11 +0000 jdanielp 219925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just saw a Nissan advert in which the car driver chases a mysterious dark figure on a bicycle through a city and out into the countryside where the cyclist (who managed to stay ahead the whole time) jumps off the bike and a cliff and then paraglides to the ground where the car driver somehow catches up with him, only to be amazed when the cyclist/paraglider removes his helmet and turns out to be the driver. Hmm. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219921 Sat, 14 May 2016 12:44:37 +0000 jdanielp 219921@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just saw an advert for Gtech eBikes during the Formula 1 qualifying programme on Ch4. I can't remember seeing a TV advert for a specific bicycle previously, but probably for general bicycle sales at the likes of Halfords. This was clearly inspired by car adverts albeit with an infomercial element. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219903 Fri, 13 May 2016 22:35:24 +0000 LaidBack 219903@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Blueth <em>'I don't accept his premise that bicycles today are more durable than those of the 1950's, far from it.'</em></p> <p>I agree to a degree. </p> <p>Race bikes 'consume' 11 speed chains and blocks. Carbon rims wear out. Electronic gears will fail eventually or suffer from lack of spares. Every year STI shifters get re-styled so if you damage one you can't get a matching single etc.</p> <p>Practical bikes though can use drum brakes and have Nuvinci hubs and covered chains. Of course ideal bike would be a folding, lightweight electric assist option model with wheels that never went out of true. Built in lights of course and central locking. Some of these were incorporated here. I've seen a couple in Edinburgh.<br /> <a href="http://gocycle.com/g3/" rel="nofollow">http://gocycle.com/g3/</a></p> <p>Designed in London. £3k each</p> <p>This though could be bought via finance (if you wanted one) - something that the automotive industry uses and encourages all the time. This is not a good thing of course. Lots of people don't own their car and sure parts of the bike industry would love to have people spend their lives buying and re-buying versions of the same slightly 'improved' bike in the same way as they 'buy/rent' cars.<br /> Basically I think that most people don't spend car sized chunks of money unless they are going to replace a car with something that does same job.<br /> This could be one of a diverse choice of new vehicles - some of which may be bicycles or possibly tricycles of some sort. All sorts of concept stuff is out there as any reader of the fabulous Velo Vision <a href="http://www.velovision.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.velovision.com</a> will know. (Copies available at LB!)</p> <p>I put together a book of my favourite non-standard bike designs jut to show that bikes in 2016 can be different from 1916. Issuu link here. </p> <p><a href="https://issuu.com/davidgardiner0/docs/lb_cycling_horizons_3hr/1?e=0" rel="nofollow">https://issuu.com/davidgardiner0/docs/lb_cycling_horizons_3hr/1?e=0</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219791 Fri, 13 May 2016 12:03:50 +0000 Blueth 219791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't accept his premise that bicycles today are more durable than those of the 1950's, far from it.</p> <p>If the motor industry is going to have teams of 50 super developers working on bikes then bike prices will have to rise by some multiple - I can't see a lot of "ordinary" people being willing to pay up (You know the usual - "I paid a lot for a bike, it cost a hundred pounds"). </p> <p>Even with an electric motor it will still be "just a bike" in terms of what they are prepared to pay, to many. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219781 Fri, 13 May 2016 10:56:36 +0000 dougal 219781@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I daresay it'll see as much use in single-occupancy cars, if not moreso... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219777 Fri, 13 May 2016 10:17:41 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 219777@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Love it. You can see the Vauxhall social media crew were prepared for people saying it's a terrible idea, as they've got their mantra ready of, "It's not for the driver, it's to keep the passengers entertained".</p> <p>And then they've ignored the perfectly reasonable query asking what safeguards they have on the system to stop drivers connecting to it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219776 Fri, 13 May 2016 10:11:24 +0000 chdot 219776@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"In a sense, what makes the bicycle so attractive as a transport solution is that it is so simple and doesn't require much technology, although GPS and bike computers / apps can be added easily."</p> <p>Apologies for this as it's an advert, but getting comments from bicycle riders!</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/vauxhall/status/730056615651467264" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/vauxhall/status/730056615651467264</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219771 Fri, 13 May 2016 10:00:45 +0000 chdot 219771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"So I can't see e-bikes on their own as a game changer either"</p> <p>The idea behind the article (at least my interpretation) is that the actual 'game changer' would be the automotive industry getting involved with its engineering, design, manufacturing and marketing expertise.</p> <p>Whether that happens remains to be seen.</p> <p>Whether the actual products sell - and get used - very much remains to be seen.</p> <p>History is no guide...</p> <p>"</p> <p>In December 1977, Volvo in Gothenburg wanted to produce minicars and investigated conditions and designs. In January 1978, it proposed plastic composite materials in many parts of the car. Other products were considered, the bicycle one of them. In October 1978, a grant of SEK 54,000 from the Swedish National Board for Technical Development financed a prototype plastic bicycle.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_bicycle" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_bicycle</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219770 Fri, 13 May 2016 09:52:06 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 219770@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I'm not sure if e-bikes really encourage many non-cyclists onto bikes unless they are already interested in trying out cycling and it's only a hill that stops them.</em>"</p> <p>From the experience of my own parents, neither of whom were cyclists in the past, yes, they do encourage it. My mum hires one on an annual holiday in the Lakes so she can go out with her granddaughter; my dad (who has been allergic to most forms of exercise for at least the last 30 years, but used to be an excellent swimmer and squasher) is cruising websites looking to buy one.</p> <p>"<em>So I can't see e-bikes on their own as a game changer either</em>"</p> <p>Yep, exactly my point. Far more complex than <em>one</em> gamechanger. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219768 Fri, 13 May 2016 09:33:21 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 219768@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My impression in Germany was that e-bikes are very popular and common now, but most people I talked to used normal bikes before and moved to e-bikes so that they could continue when they got older or had health problems.</p> <p>I'm not sure if e-bikes really encourage many non-cyclists onto bikes unless they are already interested in trying out cycling and it's only a hill that stops them.</p> <p>So I can't see e-bikes on their own as a game changer either, although they may contribute to making cycling accessible and interesting to more people. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219762 Fri, 13 May 2016 09:02:34 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 219762@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>the gamechanger isn't e-bikes, its joined-up dedicated infrastructure</em>"</p> <p>The gamechangers isn't <em>any one thing</em>. The trouble is in looking for a magic bullet. I'd say a joined up, dedicated infrastructure will have more impact, for sure, but there are still some legitimate reasons that even with that people won't take up cycling, and so an e-bike might be <em>their</em> final push into it.</p> <p>I'm not about to start waffling about holistic approaches to synergies, but we do need to focus on interactions between <em>all</em> good ideas, and not say, 'well this idea is better and <em>that</em> is what's going to get <em>everyone</em> cycling'.</p> <p>I have to say, the WalkCycleVote event I went to was very much along those lines, really encouraging people to work out how many different factors kept people from cycling, how it affected different demographics, and how to change lots of different things to achieve a tipping point.</p> <p>(I'm a fan of e-bikes, I've come across HankChief's silver fox, and just laughed when he breezed alongside me. Loved seeing an older couple on Alpe d'HUez as well, he in club kit, she dressed much more relaxed, he on his carbon fibre lightweight machine, she cruising uphill on the battery). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219751 Fri, 13 May 2016 07:57:34 +0000 Stephan Matthiesen 219751@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@bax "i like the idea of some auld boomer keeping pace with me up the queensferry road, on an electric assist bike"</p> <p>That happens in Germany all the time, they are everywhere.</p> <p>E-bikes are very popular with elderly people, and they are really ideal for active pensioners who find hills a bit hard on the lungs/heart/knees but otherwise enjoy being out.</p> <p>Good infrastructure is the key. E-bikes are still bikes and cycling in motor traffic is still too unpleasant for many. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219740 Thu, 12 May 2016 23:11:26 +0000 chdot 219740@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"so infrastructure the catalyst for e-bikes the gamechanger"</p> <p>Very likely!</p> <p>Just need car companies to press for segregated infrastructure for 'their' e-bikes'! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219739 Thu, 12 May 2016 22:59:24 +0000 minus six 219739@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>one requires government the other would be a product of the 'free market'</em></p> <p>ok, so infrastructure the catalyst for e-bikes the gamechanger</p> <p>can't see it vice versa</p> <p>but i'd buy that for a dollar </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219738 Thu, 12 May 2016 22:45:15 +0000 LaidBack 219738@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>He mentions Bosch as an example of a game changer. As the provider of the electric assist on the Urban Arrow I would say he's right.<br /> He also mentions that others can and will compete. Shimano Steps motor is one - another crank assist system.<br /> Bosch of course re-purposed a starter motor from truck industry into their e-bike range. When we sold our first UA, Bosch didn't have an e-bike division. Since then things have expanded greatly. One worry with too much tech though is wasteful upgrades.<br /> The non e-bike industry aims to sell more expensive lighter components which don't last as long. (Eg 11 speed). 11 speed does offer a bigger almost 400% of increment without double or triple chain rings so not just fashion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219737 Thu, 12 May 2016 22:39:59 +0000 chdot 219737@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the gamechanger isn't e-bikes, its joined-up dedicated infrastructure"</p> <p>Mmm </p> <p>"joined-up dedicated infrastructure" would be better than any significant increase in e-bikes, but one requires government the other would be a product of the 'free market'. </p> <p>I'm not suggesting that there will be an 'e-bike revolution' - that's what the writer of the article thinks. </p> <p>There's probably more chance of significantly more e-bikes than a mass move to e-cars any time soon. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219735 Thu, 12 May 2016 22:32:20 +0000 crowriver 219735@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"No it doesn't he is talking about places with high car use (which may or may not still have 'mass cycling')."</p> <p>No he didn't. He talked about large cities and a growing world population, i.e.. there won't be any space for cars in the mega-cities of the developing economies. Kowloon walled city was his vision of the near future. </p> <p>"That's his point - any gamechanger (if it happens) won't be coming from the bicycle industry."</p> <p>The reason I searched for Bosch is because they were his example of a non-cycling company getting into cycling. The rest was just speculation, "what if x car companies..." Yeah but they haven't, as yet. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219734 Thu, 12 May 2016 21:52:48 +0000 minus six 219734@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>is this the chap?</p> <p><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Barry_on_the_Schwinn_Tailwind_%283248944250%29.jpg/220px-Barry_on_the_Schwinn_Tailwind_%283248944250%29.jpg"></p> <p>does he mutter "its time to raise the rents" as he passes? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219730 Thu, 12 May 2016 21:24:34 +0000 HankChief 219730@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bax - I regularly get overtaken by a silver fox on an ebike heading West on Glasgow Road... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219729 Thu, 12 May 2016 21:03:35 +0000 minus six 219729@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>i like the idea of some auld boomer keeping pace with me up the queensferry road, on an electric assist bike</p> <p>i could shout "judas !" and see if they clock the dylan reference</p> <p>but this is all idle futurism</p> <p>the gamechanger isn't e-bikes, its joined-up dedicated infrastructure</p> <p>we're still decades away from that in the provinces </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16389#post-219727 Thu, 12 May 2016 20:46:25 +0000 chdot 219727@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"But his model breaks down when we look at places where there is still a mass market for bikes as transport"</p> <p>No it doesn't he is talking about places with high car use (which may or may not still have 'mass cycling').</p> <p>"A quick search on 'Bosch bicycle' reveals some pretty conventional, if electric assisted, steeds."</p> <p><em>That's</em> his point - any gamechanger (if it happens) won't be coming from the bicycle industry. </p>