http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: At the risk of sparking another h****t debate! en Mon, 18 May 2026 00:23:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16366 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 23:19:31 +0000 kaputnik 16366@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Article in this week's cycling plus about cardboard helmets. Yet to read... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16365 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:32:34 +0000 wee folding bike 16365@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The memsahib's degree is some thing to do with stats so she understands these things.</p> <p>Mostly kids just ask if I cycled in on days when they feel the weather is particularly bad. That's just the first years, those further up the school don't bother to ask.</p> <p>Ohhh and they sometimes ask if I used the bike which doesn't go out in the rain. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16363 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:21:27 +0000 gembo 16363@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't think of a way my not wearing a magic hat can affect other people.</p> <p>The only possible and extremely unlikely way would be the collateral for your family if when you fell off a helmet could have prevented more serious injury</p> <p>all very hypothetical and unknowable as the medics do not collect data on whether or not injured cyclists were wearing a helmet which makes it odd that people at work/legal types/ etc always ask - were you wearing a helmet? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16322 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:06:58 +0000 Claggy Cog 16322@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Min ...I could not possibly comment!! Well, yeah, okay then ...you guessed right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16320 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 15:55:37 +0000 Min 16320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I saw you were cycling without a helmet, well I am never going to speak to you again until you wear one"</p> <p>No great loss I'm guessing.. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16314 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 15:22:45 +0000 Smudge 16314@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I saw you were cycling without a helmet, well I am never going to speak to you again until you wear one".</p> <p>"and likewise I shall not talk to you until you undertake some advanced driver training or pass an advanced test or re-test". (muttering under breath "and then, maybe!"</p> <p>People like to forget, passing "the driving test", does not mean you are in any way a "good" driver, merely that you have reached the <em>minimum</em> standard required to be allowed to contuinue to learn to drive a motor vehicle without direct supervision... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16310 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 14:56:19 +0000 Claggy Cog 16310@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Herding inflatable helmet also looks like it would protect the neck too in the event of a fall or being hit. There is a school of thought about cervical fractures may be more likely to occur when wearing a helmet because as you hit the ground your head is thrust forwards, backwards or sideways further due to the fact that the helmet is normally wider than your head causing at the very minimum a severe whiplash type injury and in the worse case scenario a cervical fracture/broken neck, leading to paralysis. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16309 Tue, 09 Nov 2010 14:42:58 +0000 Claggy Cog 16309@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1192.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1192.html</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=www.cyclehelmets.org&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;aq=t&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=www.cyclehelmets.org&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;aq=t&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a</a></p> <p>Not sure if both of these links work but found them interesting. Particularly the notion that helmets manufactured today are not as good as they were in the early 90's. How making helmet wearing compulsory has caused a decline in cycling.</p> <p>A woman at work said to me "I saw you were cycling without a helmet, well I am never going to speak to you again until you wear one". I won't say what I thought other than thinking it will be a very long time then that she won't be talking to me, and secondly how rude really as I would not/do not criticise people for making a choice albeit one that I may or may not agree with. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16281 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:29:56 +0000 Smudge 16281@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting that the hatless Boris bikers appear not to be attracting outrage.<br /> Mind you, awfully poor manners going out without a hat, I suggest a nice tweed one :)</p> <p>As to the h****t debate, I wear or don't wear dependent on the circumstance, respect others right to do the same and refuse to get upset/excited unless compulsion rears its ugly head. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16278 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 21:12:18 +0000 wee folding bike 16278@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't think of a way my not wearing a magic hat can affect other people.</p> <p>People choosing to wear one can have an affect on me.</p> <p>The assumption that they work should be challenged. Look what happened to dear old John Humphries when he didn't wear one on TV. The comments are much as you would predict.</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/11/flat_pack_bikes.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/11/flat_pack_bikes.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16220 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:36:54 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 16220@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I work with someone whose brother was hit by a car at an estimated 30mph (he's not sure how fast the car would have been going), hit his head of the windscreen leaving a lovely huge dent in it, and walked away without so much as concussion. He wasn't wearing a helmet. </p> <p>But. I don't use this tale to justify my view that, well, people can wear helmets, people can not wear helmets, I don't care and I'm not about to try and evangelise or convince other people to do as I do.</p> <p>Why? Because it's just that, a choice, which people make for all sorts of reasons. I made my choice(s) (plural due to the choice changing depending on the riding) on the back of what I've personally read and what I choose to believe and put strength to. Other people read the same stuff and come to a different conclusion. Fine. </p> <p>I have another friend who hit his head off the edge of a kerb, wearing a helmet, which split on impact (as it was designed to do thereby dissapating the force) and wears one because he's convinced it saved his life that day. That's his choice, and I'm not going to belittle it because it is just as justifiable and valid as the reasons behind my choice.</p> <p>It's basically my philosophy with religion (which has remarkable parallels with the helmet debate, save for the fact we haven't had any wars over helmets. Yet). People can practice what tey want as far as I'm concerned. They can believe in everything from a divine carpenter to alien origins. As long as they don't try to convert me, and respect my decision to follow my path, we'll get along just fine.</p> <p>I don't think someone is stupid for wearing a helmet. I don't think someone is stupid for not wearing a helmet. And I sure as hell am not about to tell them they are 'wrong' <em>and</em> stupid. In much the same way that I'm not going to think less of someone for the type of bike they ride; I'm not going to think less of them for what they do or do not put on their heads.</p> <p>Simple as. Anti-compulsion does <em>not</em> equate to anti-helmet. Life is never quite <em>that</em> black and white. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16205 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 11:34:10 +0000 wingpig 16205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Personally, what I'd like to see is a crash test dummy test scenario involving a pretend cyclist being clobbered on the occipital lobe by the simulated wing mirror of a too-closely-passing public omnibus. Unless the airbag-collar-thing has special proximity sensors or an induction loop to detect the presence of large quantities of metal the accelerometers wouldn't help. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16143 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 22:33:29 +0000 recombodna 16143@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"You have an anecdote. This is not data. Perhaps if the person in question had been looking where they were going, applying brakes or doing something more useful than checking out their speedo then the outcome would have been simpler."</p> <p>ooyah!! no need!!!</p> <p>"I've fallen off a bike with no hat and survived."</p> <p>Ah ha! Now I understand. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16139 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:24:19 +0000 steveo 16139@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just in case any one isn't aware of what folders is talking about with the 12mph rating....<br /> <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1289&amp;page=3#post-11963" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1289&amp;page=3#post-11963</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16133 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 18:24:47 +0000 wee folding bike 16133@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Spitfire,</p> <p>I'd say it shows the power of the meme for those who believe. The same is true of many other totems. An interesting feature of similar memes is that, for some people, the stronger the evidence is against their belief the firmer they cling to it.</p> <p>The 12 mph is part of the design spec of plastic hats. Can you find any manufacturer of packaging material as head gear who will claim anything outwith the 12 mph measurement in their advertising? Can you find any measurable safety claims at all?</p> <p>The equation for kinetic energy is unlikely to be a subject of debate at this point.</p> <p>I've fallen off a bike with no hat and survived. I've seen other people do it too. I don't feel the need to tell everyone about it.</p> <p>You have an anecdote. This is not data. Perhaps if the person in question had been looking where they were going, applying brakes or doing something more useful than checking out their speedo then the outcome would have been simpler. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16129 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 18:09:14 +0000 recombodna 16129@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>you have a were helmet?<br /> do you grow fur when you wear it?<br /> :p</p> <p>You whaaa??? Dunno whaa happen there..........computer madness....or maybe I hit my head on something..... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16124 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:01:24 +0000 spitfire 16124@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>you have a were helmet?<br /> do you grow fur when you <em>wear</em> it?<br /> :p </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16120 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:40:26 +0000 recombodna 16120@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep in a situation where your head hits an object/car./person/ground it is definitely better to have a helmet on than not to have a helmet on. I have a baseball bat and a helmet in my garage and would gladly test this theory on the anti helmet brigade.<br /> ( I have a helmet but I generally don't wear it.....but that's just my choice.)</p> <p>oh no what have I done......... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16119 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:40:26 +0000 recombodna 16119@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep in a situation where your head hits an object/car./person/ground it is definitely better to have a helmet on than not to have a helmet on. I have a baseball bat and a helmet in my garage and would gladly test this theory on the anti helmet brigade.<br /> ( I have a helmet but I generally don't were it.....but that's just my choice.)</p> <p>oh no what have I done......... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16114 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:26:05 +0000 spitfire 16114@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>expensive so you can pose and keep your style<br /> bet nobody would wear one on top of a tshirt</p> <p>friend at work knocked of his bike a few months ago doing 20 down Minto St by a car doing 10 in the oppostie direction, head hit windscreen, broke it, helmet took the blow. He's putting his survival on the fact he wore it.<br /> will that do for those who say above 12mph lids are useless? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16106 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:52:05 +0000 recombodna 16106@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Great idea but at $450 for a single use helmet they're gonna have to get the price down. Or at least make it reusable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16061 Thu, 04 Nov 2010 23:56:43 +0000 Claggy Cog 16061@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The footage does show the "cyclist" going over the handlebars and also falling off sideways, where in both instances the helmet inflates. Ingenious... Also the black box idea is great, I think, that could be very useful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-16019 Thu, 04 Nov 2010 13:53:21 +0000 spitfire 16019@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>makes sense to me<br /> until you think that if you don't get hit from behind is it still as effective? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1643#post-15997 Thu, 04 Nov 2010 11:27:18 +0000 kaputnik 15997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://uk.reuters.com/news/video/story?videoId=163995434&amp;videoChannel=4000">Cycling air-bag helmet!</a></p> <p>now this is just silly! </p>