http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Unpaid Work: Pitch Invasion versus Killing a Cyclist en Sun, 31 May 2026 20:12:06 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-224051 Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:42:38 +0000 Nelly 224051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>First I must admit an interest - I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road and was at the cup final - I didn't go on the pitch !</p> <p>Fans know that it is illegal to enter the field of play. However to do so as a celebration is - to me - small beer.</p> <p>This guy did something stupid, he had no reason to confront Foderingham and has been hammered for it - in part because of his aggressive actions, and in part (in my opinion) because of the reaction of Sevco PR people in the immediate aftermath. Hibs banning order seems penal, but the club has to do all it can to dampen this down and limit further action / fines from the SFA.</p> <p>As to the comparison with the dangerous driving punishment, is it not the case that for different offences, there are parameters for punishments and its up to the individual Judge to decide?</p> <p>Is that not why some judges are deemed more severe than others? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-224020 Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:47:16 +0000 Cyclingmollie 224020@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>In any case, it would appear running on some turf and giving disrespect to a Sevco player in view of television cameras, the press or Sevco fans' mobile phones is a heinous crime before HM justice system. Whereas killing someone with a motor vehicle attracts lesser punishments. </em></p> <p>A version of this gets played out on the roads: driver nearly lamps cyclist, cyclist swears at driver, driver threatens cyclist for swearing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223962 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:00:04 +0000 kaputnik 223962@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Speaking of intent, how did the defending advocate communicate it in legalese that his client's intention was not to cause harm to the Rangers goalkeeper but merely to inform him in the vernacular to "get it right up himself" (or, <em>girfieuxét</em> as they say in France) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223950 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:31:18 +0000 crowriver 223950@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Wilmington's Cow, not only that, the Hibs fan "must also stay in his home between 20:00 and 06:00 for two months."</p> <p>So home curfew. Is that an electronic tagging order?</p> <p>In any case, it would appear running on some turf and giving disrespect to a Sevco player in view of television cameras, the press or Sevco fans' mobile phones is a heinous crime before HM justice system. Whereas killing someone with a motor vehicle attracts lesser punishments. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223940 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:53:22 +0000 Ed1 223940@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Its both intent and outcome (Culpability and harm).</p> <p>English but similar principles apply</p> <p><a href="https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/MCSG_web_-_October_2014.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/MCSG_web_-_October_2014.pdf</a></p> <p>(Dangerous driving has some relation to intent)<br /> To determine if dangerous or careless may also consider culpability, as well harm etc.</p> <p>The dangerous or careless may have some relationship to intent, culpability, the death by, the outcome the harm. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223937 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:42:42 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 223937@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not <em>strictly</em> true. F'rinstance Causing Death by Dangerous Driving has heavier penalties than Dangerous Driving, but the intent (and (lack of) standard of driving) in both is the same.</p> <p>Or attempted murder carries a lower penalty than murder. Intent in both is the same, outcome determines the range of penalty. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223934 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:37:24 +0000 Charlethepar 223934@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In some defence of the legal system, punishment has to be related in some way to intent. If recklessly overtaking a bus was a custodial offence, we'd need more gaols. The hibbie"s intent was all too clear, if mystifying to normal folk. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223929 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:33:16 +0000 kaputnik 223929@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When you put it like that, it's effectively the legal system equating the punishment required for defendant A giving the finger (or other rude gesture) at victim A and defendant B killing victim B. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223919 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:19:20 +0000 Big_Smoke 223919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Predictable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16575#post-223901 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:51:29 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 223901@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Okay, so they are only two recent examples, but it just seems such a stark comparison.</p> <p>A teenage Hibs fan was done for his part in the cup final pitch invasion. He made 'offensive' gestures to the Rangers keeper, indulging in activity likely to incite trouble.</p> <p>240 hours unpaid work.<br /> Plus Hibs have banned him from their matches indefinitely.<br /> He has also lost his job.<br /> <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36607936" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36607936</a></p> <p>Man kills cyclist after losing control of his car while overtaking a bus, going over a central reservation into the oncoming lane, and ending up on its side, giving no explanation as to how he lost control in 'unremarkable' conditions.</p> <p>225 hours unpaid work.<br /> 3 year driving ban.<br /> <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-36561871" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-36561871</a> </p>