http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Andrew Burns unfairly treated on youtube en Tue, 19 May 2026 08:46:39 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-227731 Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:55:46 +0000 chdot 227731@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Yup, something finally got him fed up enough I think."</p> <p>Suspect a variety of things, though the 'I didn't intend to be a politician forever' sounds true.</p> <p>He made it clear early on that he no MP/MSP ambitions.</p> <p>I'm sure there will be people who imagine that the idea of not winning next year is the 'main reason', but I suspect that's just one of many factors.</p> <p>Does change the 'shape' of the next CEC election - not least around transport/cycling policies. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-227727 Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:29:33 +0000 spytfyre 227727@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-37116752">Edinburgh council leader Andrew Burns to stand down</a></p> <p>"I want to now move on; to focus on a different phase in my life. A phase that once again will not involve front-line politics, in any shape or form - whatsoever."</p> <p>Yup, something finally got him fed up enough I think. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-227717 Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:24:25 +0000 Rosie 227717@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sad news. Cllr Burns is not going to stand for re-election. </p> <p>That's a blow, as he's been a sturdy enabler of better infrastructure. </p> <p>"But, I am personally proud of the last 4-years ... and when it comes to local policy delivery, all I would ask is for a relevant amount of focus to be paid to, for example:<br /> •Educational attainment for all our students<br /> •Transport-mode usage figures<br /> •Particularly, growth in cycling spend and general usage"</p> <p><a href="http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/thank-you-edinburgh.html" rel="nofollow">http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/thank-you-edinburgh.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226633 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 13:26:21 +0000 slowcoach 226633@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih - I think it isn't crossing the stop line that is/was the offence: - it is failing to stop for the signal. The lines tell you where you have to stop, so if vehicles (including cycles) don't stop before the relevant line when the light is red the driver/rider has failed to comply with the signal. Also, I think regulation 10 lists offences that can lead to disqualification, and it can be an offence to contravene signs that are not listed but without leading to possible disqualification. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226620 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 11:15:38 +0000 ih 226620@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>" As various FoI requests have shown, no drivers have ever been ticketed!"</p> <p>Could be because this was never actually an offence!! (Probably due to a drafting inaccuracy)</p> <p>If you look at the regulation in the 2002 regs that lists those road markings where crossing the Stop Line becomes an offence,</p> <p><a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/10/made" rel="nofollow">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/10/made</a></p> <p>you will see that the ASL diagram, 1001.2, is missing from the list.</p> <p>This likely means that not only was Cllr Burns not committing an offence, but also that cars entering the ASL were guilt free too! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226617 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 10:48:15 +0000 chdot 226617@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"there's not enough done to make it clear to drivers that they need to stay out"</p> <p>There is a leaflet -</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/streetsahead/download/downloads/id/177/advanced_stop_lines.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/streetsahead/download/downloads/id/177/advanced_stop_lines.pdf</a></p> <p>It was part of a campaign a few years ago, I think there were back of bus ads too.</p> <p>Joint CEC and Police (and others) campaign. </p> <p>As various FoI requests have shown, no drivers have ever been ticketed! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226614 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 10:28:40 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 226614@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry, poor choice of words on my part - been keeping tabs on the thread, so I knew about the rules changes. I think the terminology is still a little out of whack, and there's not enough done to make it clear to drivers that they need to stay out (not sure 'how' this can be done, as I'm not keen on more and more signs). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226613 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 10:20:46 +0000 NiallA 226613@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>WC - the overhaul has in fact happened - the Traffic Signs etc rules now in force have removed the feeder lane/ break in solid line requirements, so some 14 years on from the original situatin, we can now legally use ASLs in the way we have all used them all along... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226611 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 10:12:09 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 226611@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I responded to "you post videos of car drivers that you are not happy with - what's the difference?". Also deleted</em>"</p> <p>Yeah, I'm 'citycycling' on there, so thought I was being asked a direct question to respond to.</p> <p>@acsimpson, I always thought the advance stop line, was the stop line that is in advance of the actual stop line, so you come to it first. But looks like I was wrong on that. Rules on use of the boxes really does need a massive overhaul! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226609 Mon, 08 Aug 2016 10:00:59 +0000 acsimpson 226609@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>His text is also wrong. He says that cyclists may not cross the advanced stop line while the light is red. Now I could be wrong but the advance stop line is surely the front of the two and therefore the one which cyclists (such as Andrew Burns) stop at. So the video doesn't even show this rule being broken. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691&page=2#post-226579 Sun, 07 Aug 2016 19:08:40 +0000 Rob 226579@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I responded to "you post videos of car drivers that you are not happy with - what's the difference?". Also deleted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226573 Sun, 07 Aug 2016 18:11:40 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 226573@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd posted on this about the stalking angle, to which he responded, asking more questions. I then replied, at length, but in a measured way. That reply has been deleted. So you can tell the type of person being dealt with.</p> <p>Ah well, the world keeps turning. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226551 Sat, 06 Aug 2016 13:49:35 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 226551@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not long until a lot of the ASLs disappear due to a complete lack of maintainence.</p> <p>If motorists can't see them clearly they will have a good excuse for driving into them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226549 Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:42:03 +0000 gibbo 226549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was going to post one I was waiting in this morning, but a check on google maps showed it had about 1m of narrow bike lane on the left. (That I didn't even see because I was to the right in order to turn right.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226548 Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:33:41 +0000 Arellcat 226548@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>some boxes had a white line all the way to the kerb without even the smallest gap.</em></p> <p><a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9198405,-3.2403744,3a,75y,7.42h,72.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6qQMkqLqDHmKY2dsGo_Ghw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en">Exhibit A</a><br /> <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9242308,-3.2460033,3a,75y,263.66h,58.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdG8BjT_BqeRayTzCQDJITg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en"><br /> Exhibit B</a> - though I suppose you could have 'gone around' on the red lines! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226542 Sat, 06 Aug 2016 09:14:49 +0000 chdot 226542@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"And what about the majority of ASLs that don't have a bike lane leading to them?"</p> <p>It's a good point - in that there really ought to be proper lead-in lanes to enable filtering. </p> <p>The discussion about 'getting into the box' (apart from the nonsense about - previously - bikes not being allowed to cross a white line into an area supposedly reserved for them) was that some boxes had a white line all the way to the kerb without even the smallest gap. </p> <p>There were even some lead-in lanes that ended at the white line!</p> <p>Now the regulations have caught up with 'sense'. </p> <p>Bikes can cross the first line and cars can't (if the lights are red). </p> <p>Looking forward to the police doing an awareness campaign - followed by fines... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226539 Sat, 06 Aug 2016 08:17:32 +0000 gibbo 226539@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"I'm struggling to find anything backing up his assertion that you MUST enter the box via the bike lane."</em></p> <p>And what about the majority of ASLs that don't have a bike lane leading to them? </p> <p>How did cyclists legally stop in one of those? Were those merely decorative until the law was changed?</p> <p>I remember, years ago, someone on here claiming that all ASLs were meant to, by law, have feeder lanes into them. (e.g. like the one on Holyrood Park Rd.)</p> <p>Maybe there could have been a time when, because of the lack of cycle lanes, cyclists had to break the law to use most ASLs? Then, because it was stupid, the law was changed?</p> <p>I don't know. But to post a video where two cars are clearly breaking the law - a very well-known law... and to ignore that in order to jab your finger about a cyclist breaking, at most, a now-repealed law...</p> <p>Just laughable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226529 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 19:29:02 +0000 Stickman 226529@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The cops finally got Capone on tax evasion; maybe Andrew Burns will be brought down by the interpretation of Regulation 43 (2) of the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226528 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 19:21:38 +0000 chdot 226528@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also</p> <p><a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/43/made" rel="nofollow">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/43/made</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226527 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 19:20:12 +0000 chdot 226527@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe it's been ok since 2002!</p> <p>"</p> <p><em>Regulation 43 (2) of the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002' states: -<br /> Where the road markings (in reference to advanced stop lines) has been placed in conjunction with light signals, the "stop line" in relation to those light signals means -</p> <p>(a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that line; or</p> <p>(b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane.</em></p> <p>What this means is that is an offence for a motor vehicle not to stop at the first stop line if the lights have changed to red. If the light changes to red whilst the vehicle is between the two lines, then the vehicle must stop before the second line. Bicycles are exempt from stopping at first line.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/streetsahead/info/10/cycling_campaigns/74/drive_safe_cycle_safe_advanced_stop_lines" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/streetsahead/info/10/cycling_campaigns/74/drive_safe_cycle_safe_advanced_stop_lines</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226525 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 17:25:15 +0000 algo 226525@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Klaxon - thanks yes I read that - I was referring to the predating exemption to which ih referred in the subsequent post... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226524 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 17:19:58 +0000 Klaxon 226524@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Algo: reference was made in the first line</p> <p>2016 edition of TSRGD</p> <p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-regulations-and-general-directions-2016-an-overview" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-regulations-and-general-directions-2016-an-overview</a></p> <p>Bible of all the signs, signals and markings allowed to be used on UK roads </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226523 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 17:03:20 +0000 algo 226523@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih - in common sense world it really doesn't matter, but for the sake of interest do you know when that exemption came into place and is there a reference to it somewhere? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226521 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:27:24 +0000 Ed1 226521@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Has Andrew burns position become untenable after this cycle-gate charging in to An ASL -) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226517 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:20:24 +0000 ih 226517@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Stickman There was actually an exemption for ASLs before the regs update!</p> <p>Agree, filming this is very pervy, and the guy really needs to get a life - a bit like me, so I'm out of this thread. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226516 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:05:10 +0000 Stickman 226516@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I posted ih's comment on YouTube below the video. Apparently these were filmed in 2014 so the regs hadn't changed. </p> <p>Isn't there something very creepy about stalking someone's usual route to work, filming them and holding on to the videos for two years before publishing them?</p> <p>Some seriously unhinged people out there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226514 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:49:24 +0000 algo 226514@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih :-) Thanks for keeping us all up to date! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226511 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:39:06 +0000 chdot 226511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih thanks!</p> <p>Sense at last!</p> <p>"Advanced stop lines can also be provided at signalised stand-alone crossings."</p> <p>Presume that means pedestrian crossings(?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226503 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:38:43 +0000 ih 226503@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 says; </p> <p>17.25 The definition of an advanced stop line has been changed to allow cyclists to cross the first stop line at any point along its length. A new variant is also prescribed in diagram 1001.2B that omits the lead-in lane or gate completely. Advanced stop lines can also be provided at signalised stand-alone crossings.</p> <p>So kudos to Andrew Burns for keeping up with the trivia of road traffic regulations. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16691#post-226496 Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:04:40 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 226496@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Especially when cars drive into the ASL box </p>