http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Van driver with 8 convictions for using his phone kills a cyclist en Mon, 18 May 2026 06:24:09 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230282 Fri, 09 Sep 2016 14:46:40 +0000 Firedog 230282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@stickman. I regularly see this too - and our car was shunted last year while stationary waiting to turn at a junction : strongly suspect the driver behind was distracted by her phone.</p> <p>It's getting to the point where if given the choice between sharing the road with someone who'd been drinking and someone who uses their phone, I'm not sure which I'd prefer. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230274 Fri, 09 Sep 2016 12:58:19 +0000 slowcoach 230274@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A <a href="http://www.nzta.govt.nz/safety/driving-safely/driver-distraction/driver-distraction-advertising/mobile-phones">campaign</a> on mobile phone use by drivers with passengers, from New Zealand ... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230236 Fri, 09 Sep 2016 08:58:52 +0000 jonty 230236@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I noticed a car ahead of me drifting in and out of the bike lane while I was filtering down Rodney Street yesterday evening so carefully passed it, stopped and turned round to see the driver staring down at her phone. I mouthed something and she saw me, got a fright, raised her hand in apology and put the phone down immediately. Probably a good result but on reflection I think she probably just thought "oops, you got me!" rather than realising she could have knocked me off my bike if I'd been beside her when she drifted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230235 Fri, 09 Sep 2016 08:31:03 +0000 Stickman 230235@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I filtered past 15 cars this morning at the roadworks on St John's Road. 12 were single occupancy; 8 drivers were looking at their phones. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230230 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 23:15:33 +0000 crowriver 230230@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Remember when the main problem was sound leaking out of headphones?!"</p> <p>Oh that would be civilised in comparison! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230228 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:35:48 +0000 jonty 230228@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Remember when the main problem was sound leaking out of headphones?! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230227 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:31:40 +0000 Min 230227@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well that is only going to get worse.</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37303181">Apple dodges <strike>tax </strike>putting in earphone jacks</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230224 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 20:33:51 +0000 crowriver 230224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I'm genuinely not able to remember the last time I went a day without seeing a driver texting. It's weeks ago, at least. Normally have the first spot before 8am."</p> <p>Part of the disruptive influence of technology. Leads to breakdowns of traditional decorum and acceptable behaviour in public.</p> <p>Currently I'm on a train. Several rows back a woman is watching Corrie on her laptop. Across the aisle a guy is listening to Off The Ball podcast on his tablet. How do I know this? Neither of them using headphones and it's bloody LOUD.</p> <p>There was a time when I would have asked them to shush. Now it's such a commonplace it almost feel unacceptable to do so. What a world we have inherited! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230221 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 19:56:52 +0000 Cyclingmollie 230221@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From a year ago on this thread - interaction with texting driver at lights: <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3748&amp;page=119#post-188121">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3748&amp;page=119#post-188121</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230217 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 19:16:02 +0000 Frenchy 230217@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>When the bypass is backed up on winter mornings about half of drivers' faces are lit by the pale blue glow of the Facebook screen.</em><br /> I'm genuinely not able to remember the last time I went a day without seeing a driver texting. It's weeks ago, at least. Normally have the first spot before 8am. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230131 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 07:55:52 +0000 Min 230131@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have just watched a programme about laws and freedom of speech and stuff and although I can't remember the details, xty hundred years ago it was determined that juries could overrule laws that they think are stupid. Therefore you can charge killer drivers with whatever you want, the jury can just overrule it and find them not guilty anyway like they currently do anyway. So until the zietgiest of it being fine to drive however you want and woe betide anyone who gets in your way, a law change is a waste of time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230130 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 07:44:06 +0000 crowriver 230130@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No such offence as manslaughter in Scots law. Culpable homicide up here.</p> <p>If someone is actually convicted of Death by dangerous driving, it's quite often a custodial sentence. This guy got nine years in prison. People have been given less for culpable homicide / manslaughter. Presumably his flagrant disregard for his recent conviction was an aggravating factor.</p> <p>Death by careless driving on the other hand.....slap on the wrist and told how naughty you are, usually. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230129 Thu, 08 Sep 2016 05:36:32 +0000 twq 230129@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@morepathsplease I believe "Death by Dangerous Driving" was introduced as juries were very rarely convicting people of manslaughter for killing people with their cars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230126 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 22:13:57 +0000 morepathsplease 230126@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would it be seen as more serious if it were Manslaughter rather than Death by Dangerous Driving? There might be more longer-term consequences for the driver if they carried a conviction for manslaughter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230091 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:51:12 +0000 jdanielp 230091@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This case was discussed on the Today Programme on Radio 4. It is currently available online: <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0473bdx">Should reckless drivers face tougher sentences?</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230028 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 09:32:20 +0000 Min 230028@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>That's the same with Russian roulette. Most of the time, when you pull the trigger, you don't blow your brains out.</em></p> <p>And your chances of survival are even better when it is someone else's brains at risk. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230024 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 09:20:04 +0000 wingpig 230024@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"It all comes back to the same thing: that the right to drive is seen as some "human right" that should only ever be taken away in the most serious of circumstances."</em></blockquote></p> <p>In the early days of the motor carriage most observers probably didn't imagine everyone needing one and the roads eventually being full of the things, driven by people demanding the right to drive around everywhere and park where they liked. Normal people in the 1980s (except those who had read HHGTTG or watched <em>Tomorrow's World</em>) did not anticipate a future in which everyone had a portable electric telephone in their pocket. Now people are considering it a basic human right to be able to use mobile broadband on their portable telephone whilst propelling their personal motor-carriage. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230023 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 09:19:48 +0000 fimm 230023@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Contrast</p> <p><a href="http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/13639133.Dalmarnock_lorry_driver_handed_20_year_ban_over_dangerous_driving/">Dalmarnock lorry driver handed 20 year ban over dangerous driving</a></p> <p>The headline is misleading; the driver "<em>was stripped of his HGV licence until at least 2035 - when he will be 75 - "in the interests of road safety"... after the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland, Joan Aitken, warned she would not wait for him to kill or injure someone before ending his career as a lorry driver."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230017 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 09:00:02 +0000 gibbo 230017@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>'Fortunately most of time no consequences' (mobile use)</em></p> <p>That's the same with Russian roulette. Most of the time, when you pull the trigger, you don't blow your brains out. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230016 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:58:58 +0000 gibbo 230016@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>'Should be more pressure to make it unacceptable' </em></p> <p>And start with the judges. The laws are in place. We don't need to change the laws, we just need to apply them.</p> <p>Anyone texting and driving (or reading texts) is putting people's lives in danger. The rights of those people should be regarded as more important than the inconvenience of a ban and a fine/community service.</p> <p>It all comes back to the same thing: that the right to drive is seen as some "human right" that should only ever be taken away in the most serious of circumstances. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230014 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:56:25 +0000 I were right about that saddle 230014@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When I young it was a badge of honour to learn to drive. Neither my niece nor my nephew have learned. In part, it seems, they don't see the point of an expensive travel mode where <em>you can't even use your phone!</em></p> <p>When the bypass is backed up on winter mornings about half of drivers' faces are lit by the pale blue glow of the Facebook screen. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230012 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:43:56 +0000 chdot 230012@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Fortunately most of time no consequences' (mobile use)</p> <p>'Should be more pressure to make it unacceptable' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230011 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:41:49 +0000 chdot 230011@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Dangerous driving serious offence, can be up to 14 years.' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230010 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:41:02 +0000 dougal 230010@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Assuming he hadn't killed anyone but continued to use his phone and be caught for it, repeatedly, how many more times could this cycle recur before somebody said "oh hang on a minute, this isn't a viable strategy"? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230009 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:40:14 +0000 chdot 230009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Causing death by dangerous driving now main tool. No evidence that manslaughter would result in longer sentences'</p> <p>'Got to keep sense of proportion with other offences.' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230008 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:37:50 +0000 chdot 230008@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dominic Grieve on now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230007 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 08:26:29 +0000 chdot 230007@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Being discussed at length on BBC R4 Today.</p> <p>Family members of this cyclist and a pedestrian wanting such to cases to involve charges of manslaughter. </p> <p>Former Attorney General to be interviewed in half an hour. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230002 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 07:13:10 +0000 gibbo 230002@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At his previous conviction, </p> <p><em>"he pleaded with magistrates to keep his licence claiming it would cause 'excessive harm' to his family"</em></p> <p>Typical. </p> <p>Rather than point out that, if you need your license, it's your job to make sure you don't lose it, the courts removed all responsibility from him and let him continue to roll the dice on other people's lives. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16837#post-230001 Wed, 07 Sep 2016 07:08:56 +0000 gibbo 230001@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Van driver with eight convictions for using his phone at the wheel killed a cyclist after reading a text"</p> <p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/05/van-driver-with-eight-convictions-for-using-his-phone-at-the-whe/"><br /> <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/05/van-driver-with-eight-convictions-for-using-his-phone-at-the-whe/" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/05/van-driver-with-eight-convictions-for-using-his-phone-at-the-whe/</a></a></p> <p>Just yet another example of a driver who's proved he can't be trusted behind the wheel of a car being allowed to continue to drive - until the inevitable happens.</p> <p>Cyclist had a wife and 2 daughters (12 and 15yo). </p>