http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Urgent action is needed to reduce transport, housing and agriculture emissions" en Sun, 31 May 2026 17:32:26 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-247236 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 13:37:19 +0000 chdot 247236@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/scots-fliers-have-enjoyed-13-air-fares-cut-in-the-last-year-1-4423164" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/scots-fliers-have-enjoyed-13-air-fares-cut-in-the-last-year-1-4423164</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-240867 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:00:31 +0000 chdot 240867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-committee-to-examine-plans-to-cut-air-passenger-duty-1-4338732" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/holyrood-committee-to-examine-plans-to-cut-air-passenger-duty-1-4338732</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230964 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:42:59 +0000 Stickman 230964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The Government hope to begin discussions on a framework to put in place a plan to set out our ambitions on how we will aspire to define a vision of a long-term strategy to outline a blueprint for achieving its goals of getting another PR shot of Nicola Sturgeon sitting on a bike" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230963 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:40:22 +0000 chdot 230963@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes...</p> <p>Also (my bold) -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green): </p> <p>This week, the UK Committee on Climate Change highlighted once again that emissions from transport are holding us back and that there are zero actions—zero actions—in the Government’s climate action plan to address that issue. Is it not time for some big and bold ideas? Does the First Minister agree that in order to help cut road casualties, protect the vulnerable and make our communities healthier, low-carbon places to live, we should be saying “Twenty’s plenty” on all Scotland’s residential roads?</p> <p>The First Minister:<br /> We would certainly encourage local authorities to consider that, where appropriate.</p> <p>First, though, I agree with the member. As I think I have just said, we have had considerable success. It has not been easy to achieve, but in the area of climate change and reducing emissions, the further we raise our ambition, the tougher it gets to take action and, indeed, the more controversial some of those actions become. That is where consensus and support in the chamber are going to be so important. <strong>There is no doubt that transport falls into that much more controversial area, partly because it impacts directly on the lives of many people, but if we are going to continue to meet our ambitious targets and see them stretched even further, we are going to have to address it.</strong></p> <p>Finally, I do not argue for a second the fact that the member has real credibility on this issue, but the climate change report that was published this week lauded Scotland as a leader for having met our target ahead of schedule. Yes, it said that we had much more to do, but I think that we should concentrate on the positive as well as pressuring and rightly challenging the Government to go further. I hope that we get some positive endorsement from the Green members of the chamber of the progress that, often with their help, we have managed to make so far.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230960 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:23:50 +0000 Morningsider 230960@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Government is seriously, seriously, serious - about spending most of the transport capital budget on dualling trunk roads. Climate be damned - I need to drive to Inverness sharpish. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230957 Fri, 16 Sep 2016 13:58:02 +0000 chdot 230957@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>NS @ FMQs yesterday -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Very briefly, the member’s second point that I think should be underlined is the importance of our now upping our action in areas such as transport, housing and agriculture. Everybody, even our critics, will accept that we have seen considerable success, although there is still work to do on reducing emissions from electricity generation; however, we must now go into much harder areas such as agriculture, transport and the energy sector more generally. If we are serious—as we are—about not just continuing to meet our current targets but meeting the more ambitious targets that we intend to set in the new legislation, that is what we need to do, and I hope that when we put forward our proposals to achieve that, we will have support from right across the chamber.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=10520&amp;i=96840#ScotParlOR" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=10520&amp;i=96840#ScotParlOR</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230895 Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:22:09 +0000 acsimpson 230895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Eddie, rather than a timer I would have a second thermostat set a degree or two warmer than the primary one so that it will always turn on at say -15 or 6 degrees. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230834 Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:14:55 +0000 kaputnik 230834@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No-one has hacked our central heating. Yet. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230817 Thu, 15 Sep 2016 10:09:56 +0000 neddie 230817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Internet-connected smart fridges &amp; freezers will be hacked and defrosted when you're away</em></p> <p>Not sure how serious you were being, IWRATS, but it should be easily possible to design one that can't be defrosted even if it does get hacked.</p> <p>This could be achieved by simple means of a hardware timer, that prevents the fridge from being off for more than say 30mins, no matter what the "internet part" is asking it to do. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230787 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 23:41:59 +0000 chdot 230787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/14/theresa-may-conditional-approval-hinkley-point-c-nuclear-power-station" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/14/theresa-may-conditional-approval-hinkley-point-c-nuclear-power-station</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230766 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:36:47 +0000 chdot 230766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Scottish Government (@scotgov)<br /> 06/09/2016, 2:19 pm<br /> We’ll halve the overall level of APD to support growth &amp; improve connections with countries across the globe #sp5 </p> <p><a href="http://pic.twitter.com/ZcIq90efT1" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/ZcIq90efT1</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230760 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:45:32 +0000 chdot 230760@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Flying to Bratislava or Bermuda for a stag weekend, shopping trips to New York, driving our gas guzzlers 300 metres to school, buying jetskis, leaf blowers and patio heaters, furnishing our homes with rare wood, eating tuna, prawns and salmon without a thought as to how they were produced: these ephemeral satisfactions, to judge by the reactions when you question them, occupy a sacred and inviolable space. The wonders of the living world, by contrast, are dispensable.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/14/extinction-let-others-kill-albatross-gorilla-whale-shark-conumerism" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/14/extinction-let-others-kill-albatross-gorilla-whale-shark-conumerism</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230718 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:37:45 +0000 I were right about that saddle 230718@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Internet-connected smart fridges &amp; freezers</em></p> <p>will be hacked and defrosted when you're away. No way I want my sofa or the carpet or anything else exposed to teenage bedrooms in Bratislava.</p> <p>Eigg generates all its own power from a community scheme. Each house trips if it goes over the agreed consumption, leading to a delay in reconnection. No house has yet tripped. Folk turn stuff off when it isn't needed.</p> <p>I like the idea of a central box that cuts the freezer when the cooker's on. Also those wax blobs that add thermal mass to fridge thermocouples so that the motor doesn't come on each time you open the door. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230717 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:24:39 +0000 neddie 230717@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Better demand management of electricity is also required.</p> <p>Internet-connected smart fridges &amp; freezers that can turn themselves off for short periods during high-demand peaks e.g. when everyone takes a shower at 7am.</p> <p>That way you don't need to build expensive power plant capacity for the absolute maximum demand (which could be many times the average demand). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230714 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:14:11 +0000 steveo 230714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tricky comparison, Hinckley is expected to produce 3200 MW compared with 377 MW at an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility">operational plant</a> in the US. The cost of that plant was USD 2.2b, Hinckley will cost what £25b call it USD 32b. So Hinkley using tried and test technology will cost $100 per nameplate MW, the CSP plant using fairly experimental tech costs $171 per nameplate MW. </p> <p>Scaled up to meet total demand its a lot more money, and a lot of surface area but thats one thing the Sahara has in abundance. </p> <p>This is ignoring the ongoing costs of running a Nuclear power facility, fuel costs, maintenance, risks in failure, clean up. I reckon with the will a CSP plant could be made more cheaply and in 30 years time when we finally crack cold fusion the CSP plant will still be operational, cheap to clean up and return to nature. Hinckley has a design life expectancy of 25 years and well whats the clean up of Dounreay cost £5b and is expected to return to a brownfield site in <strong>2336</strong>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230709 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 12:50:37 +0000 chdot 230709@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Or to put it another way (geopolitics aside) what is the relative value (in energy output terms) of Hinkley v a Saharan solar array? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230700 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 12:23:35 +0000 kaputnik 230700@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Steveo, no it was a dead end, but did do 100 test flights.</p> <p>From what I can see the eletrolysers in Aberdeen can run off AC or DC, so one assumes it's the mains. You could of course power them off a private Solar / Wind system but I don't think they have. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862&page=2#post-230698 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 12:06:01 +0000 steveo 230698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The Soviets developed and flew a hydrogen-fuelled commercial airliner in the late 80s / early 90s;</em></p> <p>Cool, didn't know about that. Still not sure it'll catch on in the public imagination.</p> <p>Any one know how the Aberdeen bus depot generate the required hydrogen? Electrolysis, but where the energy comes from to fuel it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230696 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 12:03:41 +0000 steveo 230696@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>So, apart from Sahara and Arabia, probably Australia, parts of southern US and Mexico. Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, parts of Inner Mongolia...</em></p> <p>Hypothetically plenty of places, few of them "stable", but the oil industry is already geared up for moving very large volumes of energy from production centres (Saudi) to demand centres (every where on the planet) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230693 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:58:44 +0000 crowriver 230693@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"places where it is hot and dry (where few can live) "</p> <p>So, apart from Sahara, Arabia, Syria, Iran, probably Australia, parts of southern US and Mexico. Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, parts of Inner Mongolia... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230692 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:55:56 +0000 kaputnik 230692@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Soviets developed and flew a hydrogen-fuelled commercial airliner in the late 80s / early 90s;</p> <p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230688 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:45:52 +0000 chdot 230688@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Massive amounts of global investment and interest stabilising the middle east and North Africa"</p> <p>Would be good, but apart from the politics, how much - as compared with (for instance) oil company deep sea investments or enormous wind/tidal projects? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230686 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:42:33 +0000 chdot 230686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"raw hydrogen will probably play a part in this but very unlikely for transport fuel"</p> <p>Yes, but -</p> <p><a href="http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/council_government/shaping_aberdeen/Shaping_Aberdeen_Hyrdogen_Bus.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/council_government/shaping_aberdeen/Shaping_Aberdeen_Hyrdogen_Bus.asp</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230684 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:32:13 +0000 steveo 230684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>if all transport went electric how much more required?</em></p> <p>Tragically I don't have access to the same data sources I had in my previous employ or I could have answered that! From memory though it was A LOT.</p> <p>The USAF developed a biofuel strategy for its fleet but it was worst case scenario for security and neither cheap nor low carbon, can't see EasyJet jumping on it. Jet fuel is very energy dense and synthesising that wouldn't be trivial, most of the gaseous byproduct fuels we see at the moment are only lightly compressed and about the same energy density as natural gas, they basically are. This means they've have very few carbon molecules released but equally the amount of energy stored up is very small.</p> <p>Ultra large scale solar will probably help, but you need to transport the energy from places where it is hot and dry (where few can live) to demand centres, raw hydrogen will probably play a part in this but very unlikely for transport fuel. </p> <p>My "10 years from now" technology will be synthetic petrol produced in countries with lots of sun, the inefficiencies in the process will be hand waved away by the sheer volume of electricity being produced by massive solar thermal power farms (CSP) in the Sahara. Massive amounts of global investment and interest stabilising the middle east and North Africa. And world peace.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230682 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:27:41 +0000 neddie 230682@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hybrid trolleybuses FTW </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230677 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:11:34 +0000 chdot 230677@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Consider the thousands of years of solar energy stored up in oil"</p> <p>Yes, the creator of life as we've known it for a few hundred years.</p> <p>It's also (supposedly) going to help us transition to a 'post fossil fuel world'. Except no-one knows how or what.</p> <p>As said up thread - "even large scale sustainable biofuel production won't be near the billions of barrels of oil we use in a year there just isn't the land to grow it"</p> <p>Good news of the week is the beginning of this -</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/12/worlds-first-large-scale-tidal-energy-farm-launches-scotland" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/12/worlds-first-large-scale-tidal-energy-farm-launches-scotland</a></p> <p>But electricity is only part of the energy requirement for replacing FF. Getting closer to generating all electricity (in Scotland) but if all transport went electric how much more required?</p> <p>No sign of electric planes yet - just a reduction in APD, which is apparently to encourage more prosperity/inward investment etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230674 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 11:01:06 +0000 chdot 230674@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"but more likely from a technology which is only 10 years away"</p> <p>Like 'the future is fuel cells' (which has been said for 50 years)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230672 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:58:50 +0000 chdot 230672@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>More than 1,000 British wildlife species are under threat of extinction after decades of decline caused by factors including shifting agricultural practices and climate change, a major report warns today.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/1000-british-species-face-extinction-conservationists-warn/" rel="nofollow">https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/1000-british-species-face-extinction-conservationists-warn/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230664 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:16:32 +0000 steveo 230664@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think a step change is needed either in an "oil crisis" and the lessons from that sticking but more likely from a technology which is only 10 years away.</p> <p>Currently what we're doing is tweaking at the periphery even large scale sustainable biofuel production won't be near the billions of barrels of oil we use in a year there just isn't the land to grow it. </p> <p>Consider the thousands of years of solar energy stored up in oil and some folk (not on here) reckon we can produce anything like that amount annually and still feed an expanding population with foods they'd actually want to eat. No way am I on a Vege/Marmite diet for the rest of eternity just so folk can drive! Even if we started to grow certain types of oily algae on the sea it still wouldn't be enough. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16862#post-230658 Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:03:22 +0000 chdot 230658@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ Steveo (and others), so, we are where we are - wherever that is. </p> <p>Certainly in the land of unintended (and perhaps unexpected) consequences.</p> <p>It's perhaps asking far too much to expect politicians to come up with much in the way of 'solutions'. Not least because it suggests that there are straightforward solutions - tweaking the present, radically changing 'society's expectations' or (for instance) perfecting nuclear fusion. </p> <p>Part of the problem is that we (humans/the world) are reluctant to face much change - especially if we expect to <em>feel</em> worse off. </p> <p>So (to think of a small extreme) banning all cars is a non starter - even in more than a few streets - and yet (almost) everyone might actually be better off... </p>