http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Our roads are choked. We’re on the verge of carmageddon en Tue, 19 May 2026 09:25:20 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231465 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:51:59 +0000 Cyclingmollie 231465@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Too much of the energy debate assumes proponents of one form must be opponents of all others. It will always be a mix. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231464 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:50:37 +0000 chdot 231464@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tidal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231461 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:41:57 +0000 i 231461@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave Mackay has a good point to say about sustainable energy in the UK. Energy demand in the winter is highest, yet solar energy is low; so how are we going to have reliable energy if there is a week of still wind in the winter?<br /> <a href="https://vimeo.com/163698553/10d1bbe16e" rel="nofollow">https://vimeo.com/163698553/10d1bbe16e</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231455 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:16:05 +0000 chdot 231455@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Energy efficiency would be a better use of investment."</p> <p>Very much so, but we're back to politicians' love of 'big projects' (though I expect that is politician-blaming, when it is, to a degree, 'human nature').</p> <p>Even energy efficiency is encouraging a 'more of the same' imagined future - a cosy, consumerist, Western (middle-class even) view of the world.</p> <p>Whatever the future, I know it's not going to involve <em>everyone</em> in the world enjoying my current lifestyle/energy use (inc food production/distribution etc).</p> <p>In an idealised world - which Mr. M clearly thinks about - I have no idea if I would be worse off in current comforts (adequately heated dwelling, enough to eat, bicycle(s) etc) or <em>much</em> worse off. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231453 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:57:15 +0000 crowriver 231453@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"He thinks nuclear energy is 'necessary' for a 'transition'. "</p> <p>On this I disagree with Monbiot. Energy efficiency would be a better use of investment.</p> <p>Oh when I said "you" I meant in the sense of "one" not you <em>personally</em>. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231451 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:47:25 +0000 chdot 231451@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>"he can come across as a left/Green version of Boris "</p> <p>Now that is just really unfair.</p> <p>"</p> <p>I chose my words carefully. </p> <p>"Maybe he makes you feel guilty"</p> <p>Don't think so.</p> <p>I suspect he feels more guilt than I do. </p> <p>Most of what he says is sensible, but we don't live in a sensible world. So maybe I am more pessimistic than him (but don't feel guilt about that!)</p> <p>He thinks nuclear energy is 'necessary' for a 'transition'. I think that the availability of that electricity supply will delay necessary decisions until (possibly) it's 'too late'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231448 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:18:01 +0000 crowriver 231448@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the Garudian is really just the opposite of the Mail"</p> <p>Only in terms of political and lifestyle positions. Both publications mirror each other in being resolutely bourgeois. :) The direct opposite of the Mail would be something like the Morning Star. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231446 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:13:45 +0000 crowriver 231446@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"he can come across as a left/Green version of Boris "</p> <p>Now that is just really unfair.</p> <p>Maybe it's more that somewhere deep down in your subconscious you don't like him. Maybe he makes you feel guilty, gets under your skin. So you react to this with irritation at his apparent holier-than-thou attitude which may compare unfavourably to your own flawed, compromised lifestyle approach.</p> <p>You know, a bit like the reaction of many motorists upon encountering cyclists and their opinions on transport? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231441 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:19:02 +0000 nobrakes 231441@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>+2 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231429 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 12:20:43 +0000 chdot 231429@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"just as annoying but for different reasons"</p> <p>+1 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231426 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 12:15:05 +0000 Min 231426@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That and the Garudian is really just the opposite of the Mail and is therefore just as annoying but for different reasons. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231421 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:50:46 +0000 wingpig 231421@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe it's because there's the risk that he'll say a load of things you agree with then require you to despise yourself as being no better than a corned-beef-guzzling seal-clubber (who throws away each Amazonian hardwood club after each clubbing) when you accidentally eat a supermarket apple sourced from New Zealand? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231420 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:46:37 +0000 cc 231420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The cover picture on <a href="http://www.monbiot.com/2013/05/24/feral-searching-for-enchantment-on-the-frontiers-of-rewilding/">his book</a> is amazing, though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231418 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:43:29 +0000 chdot 231418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it makes me uneasy"</p> <p>Possibly because he can come across as a left/Green version of Boris and maybe you are uneasy about his views on nuclear energy(?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231415 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:25:13 +0000 sallyhinch 231415@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>haha! What is it about George Monbiot, because I have the same reaction... Possibly because I agree with him on so many issues it makes me uneasy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231414 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:21:10 +0000 LivM 231414@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I know when our office building was built (2002-ish) there were strict controls on how many parking spaces were permitted (this is not a city centre site but an industrial brownfield on the edge of the city) and all sorts of "active travel" solutions were encouraged. 14 years later, there's still a strict(ish) policy on car-sharing to get a parking space (oh, unless you're a senior manager) and there's a pay and display car park over the road for the rest. </p> <p>Much better than it might have been, but it still gets so many grumbles from staff "why don't they just build more parking spaces?" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231413 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 10:57:02 +0000 Cyclingmollie 231413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice one wingpig. And make organisations that receive Council funding conform to Council initiatives for sustainable transport i.e. support your staff to use sustainable transport alternatives or lose your funding. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231403 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:52:20 +0000 wingpig 231403@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Make it a condition of office that councillors, elected government representatives and their policy-devising staff had to use public transport or active travel on official business (facilitated by subsidised travel passes, pooled active travel equipment etc.), or charge them private vehicle mileage rather than subsidising it. More people in positions of influence being exposed to the solution rather than the problem might help. Perhaps make them attend traffic-modelling awareness classes, showing the difference in effect between adding an extra lane at a couple of junctions versus reducing the number of vehicles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231400 Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:21:44 +0000 cc 231400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cyclingmollie, I'd vote for that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231384 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 21:23:00 +0000 minus six 231384@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I don't think people in Hamburg or Helsinki are any smarter than us. I doubt their politicians are really much better - so how can they do this?</em></p> <p>perhaps they have a surfeit of monbiot-like media pundits shaping opinion, and the citizenry aren't altogether repulsed by that, as would be mandatory in uk plc</p> <p>or maybe they are just smarter, after all </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231381 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 21:11:39 +0000 paddyirish 231381@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Stiltskin wins CCE today </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231380 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 21:06:52 +0000 Cyclingmollie 231380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I like the article but I would go further:<br /> Make all parking by paid permit, it's private property using up public space. Use the revenue to build cycling infrastructure. Increase crossing attendants tenfold. Why should a driver have priority over a child or pensioner walking through their own village or town? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231379 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:59:04 +0000 Morningsider 231379@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What would be interesting is a series of interviews with politicians from the places pursuing great new infrastructure and radical new policies - asking why they are doing this, what made them change from old car-centric policies. I don't think people in Hamburg or Helsinki are any smarter than us. I doubt their politicians are really much better - so how can they do this?</p> <p>I agree with Stiltskin about Monbiot though - honestly, I feel like burning some tyres after reading most of his articles (even though I generally agree with him). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231378 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:45:10 +0000 gembo 231378@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>George 5 allotments Monbiot, he's not that bad is he? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231377 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:43:00 +0000 stiltskin 231377@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My only problem with the article is that, despite being a left-leaning green voting intellectual, anything written by George Monbiot makes me want to club the nearest baby seal into a bloody pulp. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16898#post-231374 Tue, 20 Sep 2016 19:43:08 +0000 crowriver 231374@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Our roads are choked. We’re on the verge of carmageddon</p> <p>It was a mistake – a monumental, world-class mistake. Cars for everyone was one of the most stupid promises politicians ever made. Cars are meant to meet a simple need: quick and efficient mobility. Observe an urban artery during the school run, or a trunk road on a bank holiday weekend, and ask yourself whether the current system meets that need. The vast expanse of road space, the massive investment in metal and fossil fuel, has delivered the freedom to sit fuming in a toxic cloud as your life ticks by.</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/20/roads-car-use-health-driving?" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/20/roads-car-use-health-driving?</a> </p>