CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities en Tue, 19 May 2026 11:26:13 +0000 hunnymonster on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-238359 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 10:04:34 +0000 hunnymonster 238359@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Athens rations road space to curb pollution. It's done with CCTV and uses the licence plate number. You're allowed into the city without being fined only on certain days (e.g.. Tuesday, Thursday) and not others, when it's someone else's turn. The immediate aftermath of introducing that was that most families immediately doubled the number of cars that they owned but the net age of them went up (and also the general condition & efficiency of them dropped commensurately) so the congestion stayed more or less the same but the pollution got worse... chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-238253 Tue, 06 Dec 2016 10:10:45 +0000 chdot 238253@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Tony Kenmuir, chairman of Central Taxis, said it was Edinburgh’s worst roundabout and that drivers would be delighted to avoid it. He said: “It can be dreadful. We are round that end of the bypass a lot when going to the Royal Infirmary and there can be long hold-ups. " <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/plans-to-revamp-edinburgh-s-worst-roundabout-unveiled-1-4309840" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/plans-to-revamp-edinburgh-s-worst-roundabout-unveiled-1-4309840</a> chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-238187 Mon, 05 Dec 2016 12:35:03 +0000 chdot 238187@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Of course there was a time when bikes were allowed on the bypass - <a href="https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5573/30625920213_8d82627e62_o.jpg"><img src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5573/30625920213_60213fcdda.jpg"></a> (Not just for <a href="http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/record-rides-john-woodburns-record-breaking-end-to-end-1982-211103">LeJog record attempts</a>) acsimpson on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237939 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 18:32:59 +0000 acsimpson 237939@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think Paris amongst others also does that. When we had friends in Santiago Vehicles were rationed in that manner too. The motorways are also all privatised and tolled according to congestion. As long as traffic is moving then the busier the road the higher the toll until you pay. Once traffic stops moving the tolls become negligible. Thereby incentivising the roads company to ensure traffic keeps moving while simultaneously discouraging people from travelling at the peak times. crowriver on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237933 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 16:57:32 +0000 crowriver 237933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Athens rations road space to curb pollution. It's done with CCTV and uses the licence plate number. You're allowed into the city without being fined only on certain days (e.g.. Tuesday, Thursday) and not others, when it's someone else's turn. I can imagine some people circumvent this by owning two or more vehicles? However I have no evidence to back up this hypothesis. I think there are exceptions for licensed taxis. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daktylios" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daktylios</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing</a> acsimpson on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237930 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 16:47:54 +0000 acsimpson 237930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Ah rationing... non-tradeable... 1920s black-market anyone...?" Whatever reasonably priced solutions are available would be open to abuse. However that seems to be the way we like road law to be setup in this country so it should be easily adopted. neddie on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237920 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 16:18:51 +0000 neddie 237920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Ah rationing... non-tradeable... 1920s black-market anyone...? Ed1 on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237918 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 16:01:10 +0000 Ed1 237918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The aqueduct rationed to one direction? I were right about that saddle on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237916 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 15:53:28 +0000 I were right about that saddle 237916@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Perhaps instead of pricing controls we should have rationing. Absolutely. And not just of road space. acsimpson on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237914 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 15:34:31 +0000 acsimpson 237914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Perhaps instead of pricing controls we should have rationing. Everyone is allowed to use the bypass 1 or 2 days a week. If you want to use it more you have to have someone in the car who hasn't already used their ration for the week. The rations would have to be non trade-able though. chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237894 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:42:17 +0000 chdot 237894@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Nah. Just get them to work from home. Using apps for their tablet that are rented by the day." Obviously that is happening, but clearly not as much as past futurologists predicted. In general, people like working with other people - though perhaps not as much as employers seem to like having people where they can see them! As always it's about expectations. I want/have to work there. I want/have to live there. I want/expect someone to facilitate my journeys - at minimal cost to me. That applies to people who want to cycle to work too. The main difference is that providing for cycling is (usually/CBA proven) much cheaper. crowriver on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237886 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:28:02 +0000 crowriver 237886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "If getting people from A to B as quickly and efficiently as possible was going to massively boost the economy then all the forces of capitalism would conspire to get people out of the private cars and onto their feet, bikes and public transport." Nah. Just get them to work from home. Using apps for their tablet that are rented by the day. All other work base costs, including broadband, paid for by the worker. Only tax deductible of you're self-employed, hence make everyone "self-employed" at a stroke saving millions on employer's NI, pensions, etc. kaputnik on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237885 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:24:49 +0000 kaputnik 237885@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Whilst the Government continues to ponder the solution, for what is the bypass of the country's capital city, the time lost in never ending queues is only stifling our economy. What would they be doing if they weren't in queues? Probably driving somewhere or sitting on their bums indulging in some sort of leisure activity. If we could magically eliminate congestion people might be a lot happier and have more leisure time but would the Edinburgh economy be suddenly "unstifled" and us all more prosperous? I seriously doubt it. I'd get paid no more or no less if it took me 10 minutes or 60 minutes to get to work and I'd have no more or less money to spend at the end of the month. Simplistic, I know, but I think there's a seriously conceited and flawed logic that the motorist is economically super active when not motoring. If getting people from A to B as quickly and efficiently as possible was going to massively boost the economy then all the forces of capitalism would conspire to get people out of the private cars and onto their feet, bikes and public transport. Ed1 on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237879 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:15:37 +0000 Ed1 237879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I suppose an economist would argue that the price someone is willing to pay reflects the economic benefits , they must be feeling they are getting a return on the use so ability to pay would not be a consideration in the efficient use of the resource. Of course this ignore goods and services that are not priced correctly and public goods. minus six on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237877 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:09:45 +0000 minus six 237877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Something I've been mulling over lately, while I'm spending more time on the continent, is that the vacuous state of UK culture directly and firmly correlates with the total dominance of moto-centricity. Everywhere with a notably vibrant fertile healthy culture seems to emanate from a citizenry who reject the private motor car as their primary mode of transport. It makes me sick to concede that my homeland is unlikely to change much within my lifetime. I were right about that saddle on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237876 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:09:17 +0000 I were right about that saddle 237876@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Whilst the Government continues to ponder the solution, for what is the bypass of the country's capital city, the time lost in never ending queues is only stifling our economy. This congestion can't go. Fantastical. @eddie_h Will the tolls be related to people's ability to pay them or flat rate? neddie on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237873 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:53:17 +0000 neddie 237873@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The simple way to regulate demand of a limited resource [the bypass] is to introduce pricing controls [tolls]. chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216&page=2#post-237871 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:49:48 +0000 chdot 237871@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Then there's this - " Edinburgh Orbital Bus Project Final Report September 2008 " <a href="http://www.sestran.gov.uk/files/EOBP%20Final%20Report.PDF" rel="nofollow">http://www.sestran.gov.uk/files/EOBP%20Final%20Report.PDF</a> chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237870 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:35:15 +0000 chdot 237870@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ From petition - " Edinburgh's City Bypass has a problem. Left largely unaltered since its construction in the 1980's, the A720 has failed to adapt to the growing population and as such isn't fit for modern day use. Years of ignorance, dithering and inaction by the trunk route's operator, the Scottish Government, has resulted in a major artery that operates at 140% capacity during morning and rush hour periods. " Perhaps. Of course the name should be a giveaway. The original notion was that this was a road for traffic originating outside Edinburgh (notionally somewhere like Newcastle) heading for somewhere like Fife or Glasgow. What is needed is some serious analysis of current usage. Clearly there is traffic from outside Edinburgh (Fife, Lothians & Borders) using parts of the bypass to get into Edinburgh. So the problem is too much traffic. The solution is not - in financial, environmental or interest of Edinburgh residents sense - more roads. 'Most people' (perhaps) realise this, but not Governments lobbied by vested interests (inc Transport Scotland) and motoring voters. When Sheriffhall is re-imagined perhaps it should just be a flyover with NO connections! Frenchy on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237869 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:32:56 +0000 Frenchy 237869@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Clearly not for everyone. Indeed - like one of my favourite Futurama quotes: "No one in New York drove; there was too much traffic." Rob on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237868 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:25:55 +0000 Rob 237868@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "The road was built to carry traffic in the 70's, it can't handle the volume today and has been in need of an upgrade for years, it's the main road into many parts of the city and it needs upgrading fast!" This comes to mind: <img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx-GRtyUoAAY-e8.jpg"> <a href="https://twitter.com/SomosRecycling/status/801506899841744896" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/SomosRecycling/status/801506899841744896</a> I were right about that saddle on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237867 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:23:35 +0000 I were right about that saddle 237867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Years of ignorance, dithering and inaction by the trunk route's operator, the Scottish Government, has resulted in a major artery that operates at 140% capacity during morning and rush hour periods. I....ummm....OK. Rob on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237866 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:21:17 +0000 Rob 237866@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ 'This is an "avoid at all costs" road for 4 hours every day which is ridiculous.' Clearly not for everyone. chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237865 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:21:08 +0000 chdot 237865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "there are signs specifically banning horses with carts on the entrance slips" Perhaps they should be removed. In fact, perhaps bypass should be bikes (trailers optional) and horses (carts optional) only. Of course bikes would barely use it as it's not a 'direct route'. Are there any studies on drivers' 'need' to keep moving - however much further/longer a journey takes? There are people on here who use the NEPN even though the distance is greater. For most it's more pleasant, for some it's also quicker than the stop start of traffic lighted routes. cb on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237863 Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:12:49 +0000 cb 237863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The build-an-M720 petition seems to have had lots of new signatures since this news story. <a href="https://www.change.org/p/scottish-government-make-the-edinburgh-city-bypass-fit-for-the-21st-century">https://www.change.org/p/scottish-government-make-the-edinburgh-city-bypass-fit-for-the-21st-century</a> I think it's being driven by someone from Penicuik. It does additionally suggest looking at opening the South Sub and re-opening the Penicuik railway. For some reason I found reading the supporter comments quite addictive. There were those who were perhaps signing on behalf of others: "My wife suffers this road daily" Although this person was perhaps more upset about his girlfriend's moaning: "My girlfriend will be moving in with me soon and she works at the Royal Infirmary and uses the Bypass but always complains about traffic" This was a bit unfair though... "This road is not for purpose and barely fit to a horse and cart, someone needs to remind the Scottish Government that we have moved on from those times." ...there are signs specifically banning horses with carts on the entrance slips. chdot on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237817 Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:13:00 +0000 chdot 237817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "It's obvious innit?" Yes. To those with a vested interest or lack of imagination. Or, sadly, politicians who think that voters only care about driving... You'd think that a Government elected on a smarter, cleaner, greener, fairer manifesto would be willing to try to offer something different to the way things have always been done - and look like will continue to be done. stiltskin on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237814 Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:52:07 +0000 stiltskin 237814@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Build More Roads! It's obvious innit? amir on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237813 Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:45:05 +0000 amir 237813@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "From my experience of using the bypass at busy times the issue seems to be sheer number of cars on the bypass itself." I'd agree - just too many vehicles in relation to the capacity of the road. cb on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237802 Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:47:58 +0000 cb 237802@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ From my experience of using the bypass at busy times the issue seems to be sheer number of cars on the bypass itself. I don't think I've ever seen issues with cars leaving the bypass queuing back onto the A720 itself. Cars joining westbound at Lothianburn often back right back up onto the A702. Once or twice I've had reason to join westbound from Sheriffhall which is a pretty miserable experience at rush hour. wingpig on "UK tops list of most traffic-congested EU cities" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17216#post-237799 Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:16:15 +0000 wingpig 237799@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <blockquote>"There's no inference here where the "bottleneck" might lie; is it capacity of the bypass itself, of the junction or of the local roads that connect to/from the junctions."</blockquote> Is the ANPR on the bypass just for fighting crime or could it be used for volume/route data, even if it's only seeing at which junctions people are entering and exiting the bypass? Whilst I don't remotely like Glasgow's city centre motorways they do have the advantage of having electronic variable speed limit signs for trying to slow the rate at which people approach bunged-up junctions and increasing-capacity-through-smaller-inter-vehicle-gaps, whereas the A720 is VROOM MOTORWAY.