http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: End of the road for transport minister? en Tue, 19 May 2026 11:25:58 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238465 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:12:40 +0000 jonty 238465@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep - put up a bond of £500k and you don't need insurance.</p> <p><a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/section_144_road_traffic_act_198?unfold=1" rel="nofollow">https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/section_144_road_traffic_act_198?unfold=1</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238458 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:39:54 +0000 Klaxon 238458@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My understanding of how my employer's fleet insurance policy works is that the details I give out are simply of a claims handling company and any successful claims against the fleet policy are paid out (via the 'insurance company') from an internal self insurance budget.</p> <p>The reason given being the fleet pool is so huge there's no advantage to insuring in the domestic sense where you are just entering into a large pool of shared risk. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238456 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:13:39 +0000 Morningsider 238456@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ed1 - Government employees need motor insurance, the same as everyone else. I guess there may be a tiny number of vehicles used in very particular circumstances (undercover police surveillance, security service, members of the royal family) where driver details may not be passed on. However, it wouldn't make any sense to draw attention to these vehicles - so I imagine the Government would just cough up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238454 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 15:49:57 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 238454@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm not going to join any HY media or politicking witchhunt - he has grown on me somewhat in his short (so far) tenure.</p> <p>But I would point out that his excuse of "I believed I was in possession of fully comprehensive insurance, not just for my own car, and as such that I was insured to drive vehicles other than my own" is nonsense. Modern day policies increasingly don't include this cover (<a href="https://www.confused.com/motor-insurance/your-cover/driving-other-cars-on-your-car-insurance)" rel="nofollow">https://www.confused.com/motor-insurance/your-cover/driving-other-cars-on-your-car-insurance)</a>, and it's ridiculous that it's a Minister of the state (who one would hope should be good at details stuff)trotting this urban myth out rather than White Van Man down the pub. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238449 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 15:01:05 +0000 Harts Cyclery 238449@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ed1, my experience is of the MOD, who didn't insure vehicles as the government underwrote everything. 17 year olds driving HGVs wouldn't get insured by a civvy insurer, not to mention the monumental cost of insuring 100s of thousands of drivers, so it seemed sensible. And I've never heard of the MOD or other government department not paying out, although you seem to have an unfortunate experience.</p> <p>I don't know what you mean by 'blocked plates'. As a member of the RAF I certainly needed insurance for my car! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238443 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:46:34 +0000 steveo 238443@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> Just pointing out driving without insurance is reasonably serious, and as Transport Minister it's a pretty poor show.</em></p> <p>I don't disagree its a shoddy example for someone in his position but as pointed out by Eddie, there are plenty of alternatives to fully comp car insurance its just that the current mandatory system is cheap for the government however only because of the disproportionate penalties to dissuade people from not taking out insurance and the ease of enforcement. </p> <p>If driving without insurance was treated like Speeding many more people wouldn't bother just as many people don't really worry about the speed limit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238442 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:46:05 +0000 Roibeard 238442@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>His mitigating (and substantiated) circumstances are that he phoned his insurers to advise of the change of ownership, but the policy holder wasn't changed (as it wasn't flagged that only the policy holder could do that).</p> <p>That strikes me as someone who endeavored to remain insured, but was let down by the call centre.</p> <p>For this he should lose his position?</p> <p>Given that he's made much better than usual noises with regard to active travel, I'd be loathe to bounce him for this. Of course, if he is just better at making the right noises than his predecessors, then certainly, swap him for another...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238440 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:39:43 +0000 neddie 238440@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To "help" drivers drive more safely, I would make it mandatory for a minimum insurance excess of say £2000 or 10% of your salary, whichever is the greater.</p> <p>And that £2000+ has to be held by the insurance company up-front, as a retainer </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238438 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:35:09 +0000 neddie 238438@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Well, if no-one had car insurance...</em></p> <p>...drivers would drive a lot more carefully, knowing they had to bear the full costs in the event of a crash.</p> <p>The government could compensate people for their injuries (this is what happens in New Zealand, where motor vehicle insurance is not mandatory). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238437 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:33:51 +0000 Ed1 238437@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If we was driving sober and carefully personally I don’t consider it that big a deal either insurance is just about money. </p> <p>Unless you get hit by a gov type you can claim from the Motor insurance bureau uninsurance or untraced drivers, crown vehicles are exempt, also gov employees private cars exempt if they have blocked plates. The ones that do not appear on dvla or insurance companies data base only the police system.</p> <p>My car was hit my gov type in 2012 with blocked plates, he also crashed in to another car on my street drunk.</p> <p>The police refused to give his details to my insurance company. </p> <p>I had a letter yesterday with them re instating my 13 years no claims as they closed the "case" but still no details or payment.</p> <p>The only cars you can be hit by that legally are not covered by uninsured or untraced drivers fund are crown and those with blocked plate status typically government employees. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238435 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:28:19 +0000 Harts Cyclery 238435@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm not trying to lynch anyone. Just pointing out driving without insurance is reasonably serious, and as Transport Minister it's a pretty poor show.</p> <p>No disagreement about stopping dangerous drivers! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238434 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:27:46 +0000 steveo 238434@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Well, if no-one had car insurance,</em></p> <p>if no one had horse no one would buy buggy whips, so what! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238432 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:25:52 +0000 steveo 238432@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>But keep making excuses for him if you want.</em></p> <p>Who's making excuses! you want to lynch someone go after folk speeding past schools or running over cyclists whilst texting. They're the <em>actual</em> dangerous drivers, the ones who're probably insured and more than likely to cause the maiming or death in the first place. </p> <p>Stop killing people then worry about the bloody paper work! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238429 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:21:08 +0000 Edinburgh Cycle Training 238429@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Folk in public office must lead by example. A government minister even more so.</p> <p>Personally I don't accept (not sure I believe or not) the mitigating circumstances </p> <p>If he'd over claimed his expenses because the forms were incorrectly filled in by an underling, well it would still be his responsibility to check IMO. </p> <p>I do think his position as transport minister, indeed minister for any portfolio, is now untenable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238428 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:20:30 +0000 Harts Cyclery 238428@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well, if no-one had car insurance, the insurance industry wouldn't have any money to compensate those hit by drivers without insurance. Not to mention it makes claiming more bureaucratic and traumatic. And those without insurance cost those with insurance more. But keep making excuses for him if you want. </p> <p>I really just want a transport minister who builds some damn cycle lanes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238424 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:15:44 +0000 steveo 238424@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>It is serious because you might do some serious damage to someone and then not be in a position to compensate them for their injury and the difficulties of their continuing life.</em></p> <p>The laws to remind people not be in a position where they might injure someone are far more important in making sure that people are never in that position, they're just massively unreinforced because they're difficult, see above. </p> <p>If you are seriously injured by a hit and run or an uninsured driver, firstly your initial care is met by the NHS secondly you can claim from MIB, who are funded by the insurance industry. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243&page=2#post-238422 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:12:39 +0000 Harts Cyclery 238422@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"heaven forbid you hit an expensive Jaguar with out the financial ability to repay it, there are far more serious offences with far more trivial penalties which are actually in place to protect people."</p> <p>Or kill or maim pedestrians or cyclists and have to pay for their care for the rest of their lives/compensation to their families.</p> <p>That's why it's serious. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238421 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:10:35 +0000 jonty 238421@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not having insurance also means any pedestrian or cyclist he hit would have a much harder job getting compensation for personal injury or equipment damage.</p> <p>...as I see ih just said. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238420 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:10:21 +0000 Rosie 238420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@eddie_h I've been in the Highlands for new years and every mile or so there was a car in the ditch. Ice, drink or combination thereof. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238418 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:09:29 +0000 ih 238418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>" Driving with out insurance is only serious because you might cause another driver to be out of pocket,..."</p> <p>I respectfully disagree. It is serious because you might do some serious damage to someone and then not be in a position to compensate them for their injury and the difficulties of their continuing life. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238416 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:07:09 +0000 steveo 238416@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>If a car is insured, albeit not in your name, you've got to be trying pretty hard to get pulled over such is the current lack of road policing.<br /> </em></p> <p>I suspect he was guilty of DWBAITH (driving whilst being Asian in the highlands).</p> <p>I've been randomly pulled over twice in 15 years, once the police man decided I'd given him a dirty look (his words) his partner looked somewhat apologetic (the fact my car looked like it was about to fall apart wasn't a factor, it should have been!) And once because I was an 18 year old laddy in a big car, they were allegedly looking for a driver of a red car. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238413 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 14:03:34 +0000 steveo 238413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Its a meh from me I'm afraid. </p> <p>Driving with out insurance is only serious because you might cause another driver to be out of pocket, heaven forbid you hit an expensive Jaguar with out the financial ability to repay it, there are far more serious offences with far more trivial penalties which are actually in place to protect people. </p> <p>If he was such bad a driver that he was uninsurable then this would be different but clearly thats not the case here. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238408 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:54:19 +0000 neddie 238408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Most people know that you are not covered for driving other vehicles unless you are the Policyholder of a vehicle (i.e. not just a named driver). I doubt that HY didn't know that he was only a named driver on his wife's policy.</p> <p><em>If a car is insured, albeit not in your name, you've got to be trying pretty hard to get pulled over such is the current lack of road policing.</em></p> <p>I've seen locals driving drunk up in those parts and the police turn a blind eye - it's very surprising that anyone behaving normally would get pulled over. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238406 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:35:55 +0000 Klaxon 238406@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It <em>is</em> a plausible story as most people change their insurer every year and with the pricing 'race to the bottom' it would be easy to pick up a policy with a lower cover level than you had previously - or even easier if it is a joint policy bought by a significant other. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238404 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:29:35 +0000 ih 238404@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ed1 He wasn't pulled over in St Andrews. He was north of Inverness, going to a St Andrew's party. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238402 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:26:46 +0000 Rosie 238402@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>However I've never owned a car so I may not appreciate the full duties and responsibilities of owning such an object. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238401 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:24:50 +0000 Rosie 238401@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Harts Cyclery - I suppose I am, as I don't regard it the same as driving without due care &amp; attention because of drink, texting, messing about with the noise machine in the car. </p> <p>So though the consequences may be serious as they are if something happens when you're uninsured, it's a kind of bureaucratic slip up.</p> <p>I note that Unionists haven't been kicking up much fuss about it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238400 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:24:31 +0000 ih 238400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Rosie, I'm surprised you think this is so trivial. Driving without insurance is pretty serious."</p> <p>Driving without insurance is very serious imo, and HY should take the rap as handed out, as he has said he will. I think what Rosie is saying is that the issue shouldn't bleed into politics, and I agree with that. </p> <p>As for intention or otherwise, I believe that when it comes to being sure you are driving legally (insurance, MoT, VED) a very high standard should be set. You should have to take positive steps to ensure you are legal, not rely on assuming you are. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238399 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:23:20 +0000 Klaxon 238399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If a car is insured, albeit not in your name, you've got to be trying pretty hard to get pulled over such is the current lack of road policing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17243#post-238398 Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:19:46 +0000 Ed1 238398@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The 2006 legislation on careless driving has a new offence of death by dangerous driving with no insurance, reading this yesterday seemed like a silly offense as insurance has no safety implications per say, in fact I suppose it could be argued someone may drive less safely when insurance, insurance may typically relate more to someone economic position so a way to increase the penalty for lower income. I imagine being a transport minister he’s claiming 120k a year in or whatever the minister claim these days so could afford insurance.</p> <p> However if the government now consider driving without insurance as an aggravating factor, then this is now consider negligent similar to driving under the influence or driving with no licence . </p>