http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "British Cycling has joined forces with The AA and pedestrian groups" en Sun, 31 May 2026 18:22:10 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238592 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 16:31:48 +0000 chdot 238592@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"That aside I want to express wholehearted support for Boardman and British Cycling."</p> <p>+1 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238590 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 16:13:49 +0000 ih 238590@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>In parts of America if you wander towards the curb (sic) - not just at junctions - cars will stop. Don't know what the rules/laws are but clearly there is a different culture.</em>"</p> <p>I clearly remember on my first trip to the US, some considerable time ago, beginning to cross the road in the British style (wait for suitable gap and cross with care) and being assailed from the loudspeaker of a nearby police car, "Ged off the highway. Use the crosswalk." Thank goodness we don't have jaywalking laws here.</p> <p>That aside I want to express wholehearted support for Boardman and British Cycling. The suggested change would be a massive improvement for all, and it has the additional merit of being a simplification and therefore more likely to be followed. It would also clarify the situation vis à vis parallel cycle tracks (having priority over vehicles crossing them) and open the possibility of a much safer (more continental) treatment at junctions and roundabouts (eg cyclists cycling round the outside of a roundabout having priority over vehicles that turn towards an exit). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238582 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 15:50:38 +0000 chdot 238582@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"A driver does <strong>have</strong> to give way in my opinion"</p> <p>Only if "they have priority" is legally true.</p> <p>"then they have broken the rule and driven carelessly"</p> <p>Rule/law</p> <p>Even with a police officer observing, I'm not sure they would instantly think 'careless driving' (not just in the 'reality' that they wouldn't consider doing anything about it sense).</p> <p>In parts of America if you wander towards the curb (sic) - not just at junctions - cars will stop. Don't know what the rules/laws are but clearly there is a different culture.</p> <p>Similarly I find cars are more likely to stop if people are waiting at a Zebra in London than Edinburgh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238572 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 15:27:41 +0000 ih 238572@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"...there must be drivers who know they don't have to give way."</p> <p>I would suggest this isn't quite the right way of looking at it. A driver does <strong>have</strong> to give way in my opinion. If the driver causes an accident by not giving way, he/she is in legal trouble. If they sneak through either because the pedestrian is on the other side of the carriageway or by forcing the pedestrian to stop mid-road, then they have broken the rule and driven carelessly, although I accept there will be no adverse consequences for the driver. In both cases they have to give way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238563 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 15:14:14 +0000 chdot 238563@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The main problem is that so few drivers are aware of the rule."</p> <p>Almost certainly true, but there must be drivers who know they don't <em>have</em> to give way.</p> <p>Worse in some ways is that there is no similar rule for cars giving way to pedestrians crossing sideroads when cars clearly have to slow down anyway when they about to join a main road.</p> <p>Probably more do than when turning in, but... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238561 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 15:09:02 +0000 neddie 238561@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wonder how many drivers know both parts of rule 181 which offers two options?</p> <p>The least known (but HC preferred) option:</p> <p><em>turn right side to right side; keep the other vehicle on your right and turn behind it. This is generally the safer method as you have a clear view of any approaching traffic when completing your turn</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238557 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:56:06 +0000 ih 238557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Rule 170<br /> Take extra care at junctions. You should</p> <p>- watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way</p> <p>Presume this is not a legal requirement only a "nice to have"?"</p> <p>It isn't a legal requirement in the sense that there is a specific law about giving way to pedestrians already crossing, but it is more than a "nice to have". It's a rule which, if broken and results in an accident, I'm sure the driver could be charged with careless driving at the least.</p> <p>The main problem is that so few drivers are aware of the rule. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238556 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:53:02 +0000 chdot 238556@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Presume this is not a legal requirement only a "nice to have"?"</p> <p>Difference between shoulds and musts in HC (and laws).</p> <p>Of course HC wording makes it <em>worse</em></p> <p>"</p> <p>You should</p> <p>...</p> <p>they have priority</p> <p>"</p> <p>Really?</p> <p>Legally??</p> <p>If so, at this point HC should reference the relevant law. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238553 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:41:37 +0000 neddie 238553@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>'give way to pedestrians when turning' should be law</em></p> <p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203</a></p> <p><em>Rule 170<br /> Take extra care at junctions. You should</p> <p>- watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way</em></p> <p>Presume this is not a legal requirement only a "nice to have"? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238542 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 13:52:55 +0000 jonty 238542@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It hadn't occurred to me but I see confusion on Twitter about what sort of turns this applies to. I <em>think</em> it's talking exclusively about left turns, but the loose phrasing could also be interpreted as mandating right-turning cyclists to give way to all traffic going straight on from behind before taking the lane. I assume that's not what's meant? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238535 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:45:05 +0000 chdot 238535@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Chris Boardman's main arguments (on Today) were that the Highway <em>Code</em> 'give way to pedestrians when turning' should be <em>law</em> and 'it works in Europe'. </p> <p>Now is perhaps not the best time for the latter... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238534 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:42:11 +0000 chdot 238534@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Part of me thinks that cycling with/through a ped phase should be legal.</p> <p>But that would rely on people who ride bikes being uniformly considerate/courteous - bit like expecting 'educated motorists' to obey all laws (and Highway Code/s). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238529 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:30:28 +0000 LaidBack 238529@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I heard end of it and was enough to fill in the drivetime filler aspect. </p> <p>Radio that confirms the prejudices of its car borne audience?</p> <p>Wonder if JB at lunchtime show will repeat? Stuart Cosgrove could get stuck into it.</p> <p>In the 'common-sense' world of motoring no-one on a bike lane would be allowed to undertake. We would just sit in the traffic, or walk.<br /> If you are changing lanes you should ensure that the lane you are moving across is clear. Bike and bus lanes are intertwined in the city so think most people are aware - maybe. As far as cycling on pedestrian phases are concerned - cyclists are encouraged to do this at Toucan crossings. Uninformed drivers probably count this as law breaking. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238505 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 10:33:53 +0000 Colonies_Chris 238505@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Usual 'balanced' reporting on Good Morning Scotland this morning. Completely irrelevant introduction of issues about RLJing, plus an incomprehensible suggestion that cyclists shouldn't 'morph into pdestrians' when the green man appears. And some gratuituous cyclist patronising from a crusty old Glasgow bikeshop owner (in an interview that I suspect the reporter had been hanging on to until a chance arrived to use it). <a href="http://bbc.in/2gdDJLa">Link (starts around 1:55)</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17247#post-238502 Thu, 08 Dec 2016 10:06:19 +0000 chdot 238502@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>British Cycling has joined forces with The AA and pedestrian groups in calling for a ’universal’ rule to give way when turning in order create simpler, safer junctions for all road users. </p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20161206-campaigning-news-Chris-Boardman-leads-cycling--motoring-and-pedestrian-groups-in-call-for-junction-rule-change-0" rel="nofollow">https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20161206-campaigning-news-Chris-Boardman-leads-cycling--motoring-and-pedestrian-groups-in-call-for-junction-rule-change-0</a> </p>