http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Driver confusion over ‘conflicting’ speed limits" en Thu, 21 May 2026 17:43:09 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383&page=2#post-247320 Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:05:28 +0000 Luath 247320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/part/VI#commentary-c13559621">section 84 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984</a> is relevant here:</p> <p>"<br /> An order made under this subsection as respects any road may prohibit—<br /> .</p> <p>(a)</p> <p>the driving of motor vehicles on that road at a speed exceeding that specified in the order,<br /> ..."</p> <p>See also this <a href="http://www.20mph.guru/2014/08/enforcement-of-20mph-limits.html">blog post</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383&page=2#post-247300 Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:08:17 +0000 crowriver 247300@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fixed penalty notices rather than fines, surely? (Being a bit pedantic too). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383&page=2#post-247295 Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:02:09 +0000 Frenchy 247295@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At best, he's being pedantic. They might not be able to charge someone with a crime such as careless or dangerous driving, but they can (and do) issue fines:</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/first-speeding-tickets-issued-in-new-20mph-zones-1-4195262" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/first-speeding-tickets-issued-in-new-20mph-zones-1-4195262</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383&page=2#post-247288 Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:46:08 +0000 dessert rat 247288@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Was speaking to a policeman last night (while giving statement about Monday morning's incident) and the subject of the 20mph limit came up. </p> <p>He said "<strong>it is not enforceable, there is no statute on the books which allows us to prosecute based on a 20mph speed limit</strong>".</p> <p>Surely can't be right ?? I did question him and he was adamant that was the case. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383&page=2#post-244139 Mon, 06 Mar 2017 22:42:12 +0000 Stickman 244139@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This morning I noticed cars definitely slowing down as they got to the 20mph at Haymarket Terrace from West Coates. Going the other direction this evening cars definitely sped up once they got to the 30 on West Coates, although I caught them all up at the Roseburn lights. </p> <p>A colleague saw someone pulled over at a speed check on Cluny Gardens. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383&page=2#post-244136 Mon, 06 Mar 2017 20:20:07 +0000 crowriver 244136@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Much blatant ignoring of new 20mph limit by drivers heading west at junction of London Road and Montrose Terrace this evening. Curiously, the drivers heading east were observing the limit. Methinks the 20mph signs need to be more prominent. No signs painted on road either.</p> <p>Drivers speeding on lower half of Easter Road this afternoon too: that downhill stretch is too tempting, it seems. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242469 Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:37:33 +0000 crowriver 242469@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"A series of zebras has a proven effect of slowing traffic."</p> <p>It seems a lot like using pedestrians as fodder though.</em></p> <p>Zebras eat human flesh? Who knew? Outrageous that they're even considering using these wild beasts as traffic calming devices. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242466 Thu, 09 Feb 2017 11:29:25 +0000 dougal 242466@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"A series of zebras has a proven effect of slowing traffic."</p> <p>It seems a lot like using pedestrians as fodder though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242404 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 14:57:47 +0000 neddie 242404@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>That's Beaufort Road, then Grange Road. Anything that slows them down a bit...</em></p> <p>Well they are due to put a series of zebras in there, which should help.</p> <p>Drivers have to concentrate harder at zebras to watch for peds waiting to cross. A series of zebras has a proven effect of slowing traffic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242400 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 14:40:39 +0000 spytfyre 242400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thankfully my commute is mostly on the canal or through conf square where there are no cars for me to be going faster than and get caught... That and I checked my max speed on my route is not over 21. Have dispensed with the cycle computer and use sportypal on the bike instead </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242395 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 14:34:09 +0000 steveo 242395@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was out and about on Saturday in the car with the little ones, I didn't know when the scheme starts (never paid any attention) where the signs said 20 I did 20 where they didn't I assumed national speed limit (jk) there was no aggro and no one aggressively tailgating etc. Shame really I quite like the "oh no its stalled again" game. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242384 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 14:13:30 +0000 crowriver 242384@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"many drivers just seem to speed up at the section east of Marchmont Road"</p> <p>That's Beaufort Road, then Grange Road. Anything that slows them down a bit has to be A Good Thing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242378 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 13:47:08 +0000 Nelly 242378@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"because the road doesn't look like a 20mph zone"</p> <p>The 20 signs are up on Strathearn Road already and it will be interesting to see if there is any adherence.</p> <p>Parked cars seem to work slowing traffic from the western (morningside) end, but many drivers just seem to speed up at the section east of Marchmont Road - and often faster than 40.</p> <p>To be honest, on these larger roads if the signs keep speeds closer to 30 that might be a good result. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242371 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 12:52:06 +0000 Min 242371@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fimm <em>What is wrong with driving at 20 if you aren't sure if you are in a 20 or 30 zone?</em></p> <p>ANGRY DRIVER RAAAARRRRR!!!!</p> <p>BEEP BEEEEEEEEPPPPPP!!!!!!!</p> <p>RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242368 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 12:35:34 +0000 crowriver 242368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@fimm, you'd think that would be reasonable behaviour, wouldn't you. Not in this archipelago. As a taxi driver says in the article:</p> <p>“When the 20mph zone came into the middle of town some people didn’t know it was 20mph and some did. People were blasting their horns at them – they were 
frustrated. You could see people itching to get on. I think it causes more accidents and more 
frustration.”</p> <p>So the assumption among many drivers here seems to be: no signage = drag racing strip; Confusing signage = drag racing strip / "people itching to get on"; Clear signage = frustration. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242366 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 12:24:26 +0000 fimm 242366@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well, in the part of Austria where Boyfriend of Fimm's parents live, the signage on entering the villages is the equivalent of "20 mph except the A70" (obviously it is actually 30kmh, in German, and they name their roads differently). It doesn't tell you what the limit is on the main road (which is what the exceptions are). They don't have streetview there, or I'd link. There's one spot in the next village over where there's a narrow bit and that bit is explicitly signed 30 (kmh).</p> <p>Is that "better"? </p> <p>What is wrong with driving at 20 if you aren't sure if you are in a 20 or 30 zone? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242363 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 12:00:34 +0000 crowriver 242363@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This driver does have a point: “When it’s random streets in certain areas it’s just confusing. I think it would have been better if they had done the whole city in one go.”</p> <p>The list of exceptions to the 20mph limit is causing much of the confusion, I'd dare to suggest. Also the phased rollout. Instead, it would have been much simpler to just make the entire city 20mph, as soon as you're inside the city boundaries... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242361 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:58:10 +0000 chdot 242361@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"sounds like he's arguing for more speed bumps"</p> <p>That's a 'reasonable' interpretation. </p> <p>Too scared to say so? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242360 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:57:32 +0000 crowriver 242360@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No, it sounds like he's making excuses for drivers who speed in 20mph zones. They're just "driving to the conditions" apparently, because the road doesn't <em>look</em> like a 20mph zone. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242359 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:50:41 +0000 Frenchy 242359@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>...it sounds like he's arguing for more speed bumps to be installed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242355 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:24:50 +0000 chdot 242355@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is this incomprehensible or am I just prejudiced?</p> <p>"</p> <p>Neil Greig, director of policy and research at the Institute of Advanced Motorists, said getting the signs right was pivotal to the scheme’s success. </p> <p>He said: “If the character of the road isn’t being changed in any way, that is the only message drivers will have to let them know. </p> <p>“The problem is you either have a forest of signs and markings, or do something else to convey the message. </p> <p>“Signage is important because some locations don’t look like a 20 mile per hour zone.”</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/20mph-confusion-as-new-speed-limit-signs-go-up-across-capital-1-4360800" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/20mph-confusion-as-new-speed-limit-signs-go-up-across-capital-1-4360800</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242354 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:24:38 +0000 mgj 242354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Normally when signs go up that are not yet in effect, they have that grey paint across them. As it is, the limits are a shambles; unless you read the local rag, you wouldn't know that the new limits come into force on 28 Feb, and you'll see a month or more of folk ignoring the unenforceable/unenforced limit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-242353 Wed, 08 Feb 2017 11:21:13 +0000 chdot 242353@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/20mph-confusion-as-new-speed-limit-signs-go-up-across-capital-1-4360800" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/20mph-confusion-as-new-speed-limit-signs-go-up-across-capital-1-4360800</a></p> <p>Yawn. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241810 Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:58:05 +0000 Frenchy 241810@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Gorgie Road is going to be 20 up to - actually I'm not sure - past where we live anyway.</em><br /> 20mph from the Dalry Road end to Alexander Drive (where Benson's Beds is, not far from Balgreen Road).</p> <p>Changes on 28th February. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241808 Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:50:44 +0000 fimm 241808@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Gorgie Road is going to be 20 up to - actually I'm not sure - past where we live anyway.<br /> We've got 20 roundels up our side street - I hadn't noticed anything on the main road yet.<br /> End of Feb, you say? I shall tell BOFFOF, he was wondering. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241793 Sun, 29 Jan 2017 18:41:19 +0000 Frenchy 241793@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Gorgie Road doesn't actually change till end of February. Better to go by what the signs say anyway, I think.</p> <p>Pleasantly surprised that Gorgie Road is included in the 20mph zone, I wouldn't have been surprised if it was left at 30. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241788 Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:51:53 +0000 twinspark 241788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is Gorgie Road in Gorgie 20? There were 20 repeater signs up and that's what I was doing when a Mercedes overtook and then decided it was maybe 20 after all and slowed right down again! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241784 Sun, 29 Jan 2017 10:41:51 +0000 adamthekiwi 241784@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On Lochend Road (and, I assume others) there are still 30 signs on the back of the "20 when lights flash" school signs. I hope they'll be removed...?</p> <p>Not that it makes much odds, since most folk currently treat Lochend Road as a 40... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241737 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 16:37:10 +0000 bruce_mcadam 241737@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>cb is right. I lose the pub quiz. The answer must have been 'no entry sign' in your rear view mirror.</p> <p>In my defence, I haven't been on a motorway in years. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17383#post-241731 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 15:37:36 +0000 jonty 241731@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The outbound 30 (and possibly inbound 20) signs on the Bridges/Nicholson St/Minto St corridor are too close to the kerb and so have already been flipped round by buses/lorries knocking them as they go past. </p> <p>There's probably painted roundels too but without the sign at the side to cue you to actually read them it's easy to assume they're just 20mph repeaters, especially as there's usually plenty of other more important things to concentrate on when driving through there.</p> <p>When the scheme was announced I assumed the gateways would be far more prominent than just bog-standard 20mph zone signs and paint on the ground. I've seen more obvious gateways for tiny villages on country roads. Perhaps something more substantial is planned for the "permanent" boundaries. </p>