CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Do we need an Indyref2 thread?

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Do we need an Indyref2 thread? http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Do we need an Indyref2 thread? en Sun, 31 May 2026 10:52:28 +0000 crowriver on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-331011 Sat, 30 May 2020 15:16:27 +0000 crowriver 331011@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ England to limit students going to Wales, Scotland and N Ireland Devolved nations angry at policy to introduce cap on undergraduate numbers <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/30/england-to-limit-students-going-to-wales-scotland-and-n-ireland" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/30/england-to-limit-students-going-to-wales-scotland-and-n-ireland</a> chdot on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330816 Thu, 28 May 2020 16:25:06 +0000 chdot 330816@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ “ Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale told The Scotsman newspaper that "My dad will see something on Wings Over Scotland and post it. For him, it is as relevant a source as the Financial Times". “ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Campbell_(game_journalist)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Campbell_(game_journalist)</a> MediumDave on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330797 Thu, 28 May 2020 14:20:55 +0000 MediumDave 330797@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Oh *that* Stuart Campbell. Even in the 90s he was a bit of a <rule 2> Nice job on Cannon Fodder 2 though. Reckon that cost me a couple of A* grades at GCSE... gembo on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330783 Thu, 28 May 2020 12:18:40 +0000 gembo 330783@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Wings has a Negative Site called Ah Dinnae Ken that is mostly devoted to documenting the Rev’s court cases. THe rev looks furious all the time. Appears just to drink milk (allegedly lived in massive rented house in Bath where he has been living for 20+ years, works for a computer magazine? A lot of rubbish about selling dodgy computer games. - All from googling last night but feint memories from the Fervid times. Say the vote had gone the other way would we have got out in time to have a NZ style lockdown - would have required Border Police LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330780 Thu, 28 May 2020 12:10:03 +0000 LaidBack 330780@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @SRD - maybe being a little unfair. Stuart Cosgrove did ask her onto the Talk Media show a few weeks ago. I still think the 'I'm a celebrity' appearance was an error of judgement though! <a href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/3npzkPXVhtWqzPd1Gipo58?si=Z0mnKa--R6Kx70jTJo18WQ" rel="nofollow">https://open.spotify.com/episode/3npzkPXVhtWqzPd1Gipo58?si=Z0mnKa--R6Kx70jTJo18WQ</a> Episode eight Stuart and Eamonn are joined by former Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale (now director of the John Smith Centre for Public Service) to discuss the resignation of the Chief Medical Officer, stories related to statistical journalism, and issues surrounding the transparency of pressure groups (following a recent controversy involving the TaxPayers’ Alliance). Stuart, Eamonn and Kezia also share their personal media recommendations. RECOMMENDATIONS Kezia: ‘The Science of Well-Being’ MOOC at Yale bit.ly/2RkaHPi SRD on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330774 Thu, 28 May 2020 11:26:53 +0000 SRD 330774@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Surely not fair to describe Kezia as a 'celebrity politician"? I don't agree with all her policy positions and decisions, but have never seen her as anything other than a serious politician, who also does the social media/media reasonably well. LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330771 Thu, 28 May 2020 10:27:30 +0000 LaidBack 330771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Both Kezia Dugdale and the 'Rev' Stu are outliers to the Union versus Indy debate I think. Kezia is a celebrity politician (she went on I'm a... but would have been a mystery to viewers in rUK). The 'Rev' is never in Scotland except when summoned to court. Wings is vilified by many - certainly not a cheerleader for Nicola / SNP and a disrupter to cozy consensus. Site features archived news clippings which show you the endless contradictions in politics. Kezia features in many of those. Bella Caledonia and Wings over Scotland do not get on. I like BC as it has a range of contributors and covers art and music. gembo on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-330753 Wed, 27 May 2020 21:55:13 +0000 gembo 330753@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I noticed the Rev has lost his case against the Kez. And that he has lived in Bath for more than 20 years. Very curious LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=7#post-305208 Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:36:02 +0000 LaidBack 305208@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The question is governance. If Scotland didn't exist and we lived in a 'northern Northumbria' I would campaign to get as much decision making made locally. Yes I hear the 'what about APD?' question being brought up but there are hundreds of things we can do right locally. The Scottish Greens have influence here. In London's comedy museum of politics they have one Green MP out of 600. (!) England is obsessed with celebrity politics whilst we seem to have actual policy ideas here. Not perfect but open to debate. The alternative is to accept that Scotland is not able to influence its own future and that of its neighbours positively. Most people in rUK are quite relaxed about more powers coming to Holyrood. Even Tories accept that will be direction of travel and are on back foot here as minority party. The important thing is we have representatives interested in their country. State media of course will spin this as divisive as they yearn for a return to two party politics 'up here'. I note that viewing figures for BBC Scotland's Nine news are not high. I wonder why? acsimpson on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-305203 Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:18:58 +0000 acsimpson 305203@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Is the irony totally missed by them. Although there would be positives and negatives, The one this this wont solve is Westminter's failure to govern because of their focus on Brexit. If UK does eventually find a way out of a customs union I can't see how Scotland could be in a customs union with Europe and not have a hard border with England. Baldcyclist on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-305159 Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:19:00 +0000 Baldcyclist 305159@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Sturgeon outlines new Scottish independence referendum plans" Yay, cos we need another 2 years of half a country telling the other half it's stupid, and vice versa. I think I'm heartily fed up with it all. chdot on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-305155 Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:24:03 +0000 chdot 305155@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ “ These targets include international aviation. So which option does the Scottish Government really support - massively lower emissions or more flights? I can't really see how it can be both. “ <a href="https://twitter.com/davidfkeysnp/status/1120939715484581890" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/davidfkeysnp/status/1120939715484581890</a> wingpig on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-305154 Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:55:22 +0000 wingpig 305154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Bump? "Sturgeon outlines new Scottish independence referendum plans" <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/24/sturgeon-outlines-new-scottish-independence-referendum-plans" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/24/sturgeon-outlines-new-scottish-independence-referendum-plans</a> LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283422 Fri, 25 May 2018 15:46:02 +0000 LaidBack 283422@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Seeing the Better Together re-union the other day really cheered me up. Confirms that things have changed here. "There is no demand for more self governance" is their argument. There was no demand for Brexit in Scotland either despite having to debate it endlessly. It seems we are a long way from converging our views with those of rUK. There was also no demand in Scotland to be run by the Tory party - or maybe there was with first Indy vote?! ;-) Morningsider on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283420 Fri, 25 May 2018 15:39:17 +0000 Morningsider 283420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Ed1 - you are, of course, correct about carbon emissions being a global issue. However, just two days ago the Scottish Government introduced a Bill that would set a legally binding target of a 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 (from 1990 levels), with an ambition of Scotland becoming carbon neutral. These targets include international aviation. So which option does the Scottish Government really support - massively lower emissions or more flights? I can't really see how it can be both. Details: <a href="http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/108483.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/108483.aspx</a> Klaxon on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283419 Fri, 25 May 2018 15:28:55 +0000 Klaxon 283419@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ For anyone interested in learning the reason modern twinjets (A330, B777, B787) now dominate long haul, it's because they've been designed to glide on one engine for a really really long time. The safety standard is ETOPS: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS</a> neddie on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283417 Fri, 25 May 2018 15:10:55 +0000 neddie 283417@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I notice that Norwegian are flying 737-MAX 8 across the Atlantic now. Across the Atlantic in a 737!! There was some famous quote about twin-jets crossing the Atlantic: Dick Taylor, then Boeing's director of engineering approached FAA director J. Lynn Helms in 1980, whose response was "It'll be a cold day in hell before I let twins fly long haul, overwater routes." Ed1 on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283414 Fri, 25 May 2018 14:52:24 +0000 Ed1 283414@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Carbon emissions are a global issues so in a sense arbitrary if in Scotland England or in china. There may be some local pollution, also some noise issues. From watching shows on the internet think hub model is fading out from the air industry as smaller point to point 2 engine planes are used for longer haul. It used to be planes had to have more than 2 engines or were limited to being close to an airport so could not cross large water areas so the industry favours larger 3 or 4 engine planes. Airbus may end withdrawing the A380 as airlines choose smaller planes. A new hub could end up being a commercial disappointment in a point to point world <a href="https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/15/the-airbus-a380-is-dead-airbus-just-hasnt-admitted.aspx" rel="nofollow">https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/15/the-airbus-a380-is-dead-airbus-just-hasnt-admitted.aspx</a> glasgow megasnake on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283413 Fri, 25 May 2018 14:12:57 +0000 glasgow megasnake 283413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ geographically Scotland is more a kind of spoke nipple type location than a hub area. Morningsider on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-283411 Fri, 25 May 2018 13:57:45 +0000 Morningsider 283411@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Report of the Sustainble Growth Commission: <a href="https://www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot/report" rel="nofollow">https://www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot/report</a> No mention of cycling, but rather disappointing to see that the big transport idea is to develop a hub airport in Scotland. I can't imagine a scenario where this is likely to happen as hub airports already exist in London and Amsterdam, but, if it did then it would be terrible for Scotland's carbon emissions and air quality. Still, the economy... gembo on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-280216 Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:48:26 +0000 gembo 280216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Combined uk countries won more medals than Aussies but not more golds I were right about that saddle on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-280207 Sat, 14 Apr 2018 10:08:18 +0000 I were right about that saddle 280207@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ It's maybe down to the low participation in the first contest in the series - the 1930 British Empire Games. Only eleven teams took part, of which three were parts of the UK and one other represented the whole island of Ireland. stiltskin on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-280167 Fri, 13 Apr 2018 18:16:36 +0000 stiltskin 280167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I suspect that for the Commonwealth Games we can write our own rules and they wanted as many teams as they can get. Perhaps the Olympic organisers didn’t want multiple UK teams? LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-280165 Fri, 13 Apr 2018 17:52:35 +0000 LaidBack 280165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Further to my Gold Coast Cycling update... Can someone remind me why Scotland is allowed to have an identity in the Commonwealth Games? This identity dosn't seem to deter our sports men and women either. Would a Team GB see off Australia or are we better off 'not together' in this case? It does seem odd as dominant mood in our UK weighted media is that we will become more of a 'one nation' as we are cast adrift between Europe and (future president) Zuckerberg's America. I know sport isn't 'real life' and that sports people perform whatever brand they work for. However there is evidence that Team Scotland do feel an identity aligned to their home country. I'm sure Team England do as well. Is the CW ahead of its time? ;-) By the time we have Beach Volleyball in Birmingham 2022, Brexit will be a distant memory!. LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-268473 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 21:29:44 +0000 LaidBack 268473@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @rider73 - Scot Gov must be justified in making proposals though. If Scotland was governed by Tory or Labour majority they may well say this is merely a 'regional matter' and say nothing. People in Scotland might be deluded in considering themselves living in an actual country but there seems to be some consensus that we cannot just be an extension of England with its larger population and monopoly of media. Holyrood has made proposals and will keep doing so it seems. I think the real solution may be to go into EFTA. Lesley Riddoch's book McSmorgasbord is interesting read and also points out how slimly some Nordic countries voted to join EU. With the right leaders there should be nothing to be afraid of and Scotland could even benefit - its economic performance could do with a boost. Meant to add that LibDems think there should be another EU settlement ref but not Indy2. rider73 on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-268408 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:17:02 +0000 rider73 268408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @chdot i feel Nicola went around the EU states post-brexit-vote to try and get a "nice" deal for Scotland and was categorically told - FULL MEMBER (inc. EURO + hard border) or nothing, so i'm not sure she wants to express that to the Scottish People at the moment until we see what Scotland gets from BREXIT. rider73 on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-268407 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:15:38 +0000 rider73 268407@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @LaidBack yes but they were not previous members who left, its been made clear the EU will not agree to us leaving fully and picking and choosing the bits we want to keep, otherwise it would be a mockery of EU membership if members who leave get a better system than those who stay. What it sort of shows is that since we joined the common market back in the 70's we really should have had a vote on most things to do with the EU since then , rather than choices being decided for us and suddenly when we come to exit we realise (good or bad) just how entenched the EU state has become in Britain and how leaving is so difficult. I'm neither for nor against BREXIT - i feel the EU is good and bad, just as being "alone" is good or bad - what i really hate is the fact that i feel we have so little say in the matter other than YES or NO black and white decisions. chdot on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-268385 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:36:38 +0000 chdot 268385@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Not a lot seems to have happened in 8 months (except the lack of much talk of IndyRef2. Not surprising really, there are still enough unknown unknowns because of Brexit!) " Theresa May will head north of the border this week and attempt to defuse the SNP’s plan for a second referendum by focusing on a Brexit deal that delivers for Scotland. With Nicola Sturgeon warning of hard Brexit, the Prime Minister will attempt to find common ground with the Scottish Government on access to the single market and protecting the rights of EU nationals. " <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/may-touts-brexit-deal-so-good-you-won-t-need-indyref2-1-4403605" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/may-touts-brexit-deal-so-good-you-won-t-need-indyref2-1-4403605</a> POSTED 8 MONTHS AGO # LaidBack on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-268384 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:35:54 +0000 LaidBack 268384@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Cribbed from Economist: "It is possible to be a member of just the customs union but not the single market (look at Turkey, Andorra or the Isle of Man). Conversely, it is possible to be a member of just the single market but not the customs union (take Norway or Iceland)." rider73 on "Do we need an Indyref2 thread?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17514&page=6#post-268377 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:44:01 +0000 rider73 268377@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "If UK had just decided to stay in SM and CU" - you make it sound like they had a choice?