http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Dog Crash en Sun, 31 May 2026 17:33:40 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250742 Sat, 20 May 2017 20:05:01 +0000 unhurt 250742@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>No. I can vouch for the fact that @unhurt is a rather charming human being.</blockquote></p> <p>I like dogs a great deal and will happily take even accidental comparisons as a compliment. (I slow down to look at dogs on shared use paths, at which point the accompanying humans often apologise because they think I'm eyeing the beast with trepidation rather than admiration.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250607 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:59:37 +0000 Baldcyclist 250607@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm, I should have put the boy to bed half an hour ago.</p> <p>I am being an irresponsible parent... ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250605 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:37:56 +0000 stiltskin 250605@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> I'm not aware of any concerns raised with the community council about irresponsible pedestrians. </em><br /> Perhaps you should direct the council's attention to the OP </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250604 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:37:40 +0000 gembo 250604@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just wish t point out there is no actual disagreement in any of thes posts so everybody, like, err, just take it down a notch </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250603 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:36:54 +0000 Baldcyclist 250603@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>(Any heat coming from me is purely perceived, I enjoy the debate. I do confess to being annoyed at the suggestion all dog owners leave mess, we don't- especially when it comes from cyclists, you know the red light thing...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250601 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:32:23 +0000 Baldcyclist 250601@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I presume then I should stop playing with my son whilst on any path?</p> <p>When I'm on my bike and come across people enjoying frivolous family time whilst out for a walk, I slow down and smile on the way past. Sometimes I even have to stop and dismount, I'd rather that than impose some sort of false morality on them for being happy!</p> <p>Is it any wonder the council is throwing up barriers everywhere to slow us down. I have had a local councillor (Fife) approach my group citing concerns over cyclists going too fast on paths (we had a debate, then some of the group started to verbally abuse her. I had to put a stop to that). As mentioned before local concerns amount to dog fouling, and irresponsible cyclists. I'm not aware of any concerns raised with the community council about irresponsible pedestrians. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250597 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:10:21 +0000 I were right about that saddle 250597@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Dog walkers who walk six dogs get my goat</em></p> <p>Hexahounds abound. Don't like them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250596 Thu, 18 May 2017 19:02:24 +0000 gembo 250596@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure why there is so mch heat in this thread.?</p> <p>I know most of the dogs and owners on the WoL Path from Balerno to canal. Some fine individuals. Likewise I know most of the cyclists, again some fine individuals.</p> <p>There are unreason able dog walkers, unreasonable cyclists and unreasonable dogs ( very few of them, but I am most considerate of their randomness).</p> <p>The thing is, to lesser or greater extent we do all just rub Lang, occasional disagreement but we share the path. Sharing the path does not mean big love or even mutual respect, it just means we rub along without losing the plot. The original post at top of thread does suggest mischief or stupidity by a dog owner/ walker. Dog walkers who walk six dogs get my goat </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250595 Thu, 18 May 2017 18:47:24 +0000 stiltskin 250595@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nope. I view them as cyclepaths, and if you take from what I've said that I think it gives me sole rights as a cyclist to bulldoze everyone out of the way then I'm afraid you haven't read my posts properly. I believe in using the paths safely with a sense of responsibilty to other people. Whether I am on foot or on two wheels. Does that give you a problem? I can't believe that you can apparently make the case for acting without any consideration the consequences of your actions. Sounds to me like the attitude of an awful lot of drivers. In their case it's because they are surrounded by 1.5 tons of car. In your case its just because you are on foot. Let's return to the OP. what do you think? The cyclist's at fault, obvs.<br /> EDIT. You might notice the signs up on the cyclepath. "Have consideration for other path users"<br /> Don't you think that is a good idea? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250593 Thu, 18 May 2017 18:39:29 +0000 Baldcyclist 250593@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The actual problem is that cyclists (on the evidence of this thread) view cycle paths in the same vane as roads .</p> <p>None of the other users view paths in this manor. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250592 Thu, 18 May 2017 18:30:41 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 250592@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe stables should give their horses a break from those inconvenient saddles, reins and halters and send them out unencumbered to play on the roads, or Farmer Giles could open his gates and let his cattle run free on the lanes. They can always blame drivers afterwards if there's a incident.</p> <p>I know, it sounds ridiculous. Seems to be what some inconsiderate dog owners think regarding shared paths and cyclists though </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250591 Thu, 18 May 2017 18:28:02 +0000 stiltskin 250591@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, that doesn't mean that it entitles me, as a cyclist, to weave merrily across the road on a whim and to take no notice of any motor vehicles in the vicinity.<br /> If I am cycling on a cycle path I take due cognisance of other people using the path. It doesn't give then carte blanche to behave like a selfish, entitled idiot. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250590 Thu, 18 May 2017 18:22:31 +0000 Baldcyclist 250590@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But we expect motorists to be able to anticipate a cyclist swerving on a road because of a pot hole? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250589 Thu, 18 May 2017 18:04:07 +0000 stiltskin 250589@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If I go for a walk on the NEPN (&amp; I quite often do) then I am happy to walk two abreast by the side of the path. I don't throw myself onto the verge to make space for cyclists, but I absolutely remain aware that I am sharing the space with people on bikes, so if I am about to move from one side of the path to the other I check over my shoulder to see if it is safe to move. I do this because I think it is the considerate, careful and sociable thing to do. As a pedestrian on a cyclepath I have a responsibility to other people using the path. Just as I do when I am cycling: I tend to regard those who think that because they are pedestrians and have 'priority' over cyclists, that they can just behave as they like, as being selfish, inconsiderate and displaying a sense of entitlement which sums up a lot of what is wrong with modern society. So, no. I don't do anything which might carelessly endanger someone elses safety when I'm on a cyclepath because I like to think I am a responsible adult who is aware that I am sharing public space with other people.<br /> I once witnessed an elderly woman arguing on her phone who waved her walking stick at ninety degrees across the path. This caused a passing cyclist to swerve off the path and into a bush. That'll teach him to expect the unexpected eh? Especially since he was aged about 8. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250586 Thu, 18 May 2017 17:40:11 +0000 Baldcyclist 250586@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I must confess, I am intrigued. When you go out for a walk with family or friends, do you always walk in single file at a constant speed along the left of the path?</p> <p>Have you never been tempted to shoulder check a loved one as a joke, or flick the ball out of your child's hand, and then chase them? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250584 Thu, 18 May 2017 17:22:55 +0000 stiltskin 250584@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well....Don't be surprised if you come into conflict with people who are using the cycle path to ride a bike and attempting to equitably <strong><em>share</em></strong> the space. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750&page=2#post-250583 Thu, 18 May 2017 17:19:08 +0000 Baldcyclist 250583@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"What you are thinking of there is a park"</p> <p>No, paths are social space, I personally use them for cycling, playing chase with the boy, walking the dog off the lead, and sometimes in a group walking 4 abreast. Definitely social space. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250581 Thu, 18 May 2017 17:05:30 +0000 stiltskin 250581@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What you are thinking of there is a park: Not a cyclepath. Not a motorway, a path down which you can expect to cycle &amp; share the use of. Not one group of people selfishly using it to the detriment of others.<br /> If your dog's actions t injure someone then they are legally out of control &amp; you can be fined. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250577 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:56:57 +0000 Baldcyclist 250577@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Much of the issue is how users use the space. Cyclists tend to use it as the cycle equivalent of a motorway, where for other users it's a much more relaxed, and often social space, groups walking 4 abreast chatting, kids playing with balls, or dogs walkers playing catch with their owners.</p> <p>All of these are inconvenient for those on a 'motorway'. Community councils often get complaints about speeding cyclists, and dog fouling, but (certainly my council) never number of dog walkers.</p> <p>Re dog fouling - not all cyclists run red lights... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250569 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:39:43 +0000 Min 250569@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I'm seeing more similarities between dog owners and car owners here, frankly.</em></p> <p>Yes, I am struggling to see how having an out of control dog on a cycle path is the same as cycling along a road. Unless the cyclist was taking their elephant for a walk with them and allowing it to run amok, trampling on cars and injuring the drivers therein. It could be amusing but I can't see it catching on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250565 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:30:51 +0000 crowriver 250565@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Seems more civilised than eg Harrison Park where a bit has to be fenced off to give kids and others somewhere free from dog eggs."</p> <p>I'm seeing more similarities between dog owners and car owners here, frankly. </p> <p>Dog owners seem to expect to be able to take their pet anywhere they want, let them run off the lead, foul public space, etc. without much if any regard for other users of the space - whether those other users be children, little old ladies, joggers, picnicking families, single adults out for a stroll, or cyclists on a shared use path or footpath not parallel to a road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250564 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:26:03 +0000 stiltskin 250564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Indeed, but as humans we have the mental capacity to see a dog running about further ahead,</em><br /> Or, as a human owner, we can anticipate that our dog can act in an unpredictable and potentially hazardous manner &amp; so keep it under proper control when walking it on a cyclepath....just like you are supposed to.<br /> If cyclists acted on the road in the way that dogs do on cyclepaths, I would be perfectly happy to accept a restriction on their movements.<br /> Cyclepaths are meant to be <em>shared</em> use. If a dog is running out of control it is taking over the entire path: That isn't sharing it, that's the dog owner taking ownership of the entire path. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250563 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:25:16 +0000 Min 250563@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>a) slow down to a sensible speed, say walking pace. in-case said dog smells something nice and changes course.<br /> b) carry on regardless.</em></p> <p>My husband was once quite badly hurt when a dog jumped up on him and pushed him off his bike. What was he meant to have done to have avoided that? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250560 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:07:36 +0000 Frenchy 250560@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Most dogs are faster than I am on my bike...</em></p> <p>I need a long steep hill to reach the speeds my dog is capable of reaching in a handful of strides on flat ground. He doesn't get let off a lead except in enclosed spaces, though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250559 Thu, 18 May 2017 16:07:23 +0000 Baldcyclist 250559@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed, but as humans we have the mental capacity to see a dog running about further ahead, and:</p> <p>a) slow down to a sensible speed, say walking pace. in-case said dog smells something nice and changes course.<br /> b) carry on regardless. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250555 Thu, 18 May 2017 15:56:30 +0000 gibbo 250555@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Sounds a lot like motorists mantra of cyclists throwing themselves in front of cars simply by being there.</em></p> <p>I'd suggest it's far easier to predict what a cyclist is going to do than what a dog is going to do. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250549 Thu, 18 May 2017 15:36:33 +0000 paddyirish 250549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"bigger, and faster vehicles that have potential to cause most damage..."</em></p> <p>Most dogs are faster than I am on my bike... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250547 Thu, 18 May 2017 15:18:55 +0000 Baldcyclist 250547@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"And that makes sense as they can cause injuries."</p> <p>Sounds a lot like motorists mantra of cyclists throwing themselves in front of cars simply by being there.</p> <p>If only there was a system of presumed liability which protected more vulnerable infrastructure users to bigger, and faster vehicles that have potential to cause most damage... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250546 Thu, 18 May 2017 14:58:34 +0000 gibbo 250546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Also worth remembering that dogs need time off their leads to do 'dog stuff', sniffing, running etc. This is vital for their mental well being, and if you live in a city, the places where this can happen are very limited.</p> <p>Dogs need to be off their leads, and we should learn to be more accommodating of that. </em></p> <p>However, according to amir's quote above, they're not meant to do this on a path shared by cyclists (or horses).</p> <p>And that makes sense as they can cause injuries.</p> <p>As for the shortage of places, there are many near NEPN that are well away from the main path.</p> <p>(e.g. Victoria Park is less than half a mile from the Lindsay Road entrace.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17750#post-250545 Thu, 18 May 2017 14:33:36 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 250545@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some bigger urban parks in France have 'dog' sections - large enclosed sections with high fences where dogs can be let off the lead. Seems more civilised than eg Harrison Park where a bit has to be fenced off to give kids and others somewhere free from dog eggs. </p>