http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Bikenomics talk 24th August en Tue, 23 Jun 2026 23:55:05 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258377 Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:49:14 +0000 LaidBack 258377@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Elly was on radio this morning. Her points re-enforce much of what we agree on.</p> <p>HSBC event. Yes - would such a 'radical' idea be rejected if it came from locals but is somehow ok coming from a bank. Money I suppose as this will cost.<br /> As resident on route this comes across as an event flown in for outsiders. City as backdrop for visitors etc. Fliers on stairs didn't say 'get you bike out' as your street is part of HSBCs advertising budget. Residents do own some bikes and few cars.<br /> This may just confirm that cycling is for a section that want to use 'our' roads. City needs to show streets are nice for walkers too. Hope people on bikes interact with majority on foot nicely. Ped crossings working for the leisure rides?<br /> Sorry drifting on this but such a public event either confirms or changes perceptions about bike users. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258301 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 12:02:17 +0000 Stickman 258301@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I thought it was an interesting talk, although when she was talking about engaging with politicians all I could think was "<em>yeah, but Keith Brown"</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258289 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:48:15 +0000 shuggiet 258289@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>She had an interesting perspective that infrastructure/encouragement/creative energy should go first in the suburbs (or at least in parallel) to city centres to reduce gentrification, allow the suburbs to become more village like, and reduce the dependency on drive-to-shop malls. not sure how though... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258277 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:14:52 +0000 chdot 258277@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Do we think it is worth it to "use" them to get cycling available for all."</p> <p>Clearly 'it depends'.</p> <p>This is all I have seen.</p> <p><img src="https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4336/36791876945_8a0f191ed6.jpg"></p> <p>I haven't been round the rest of the route so I don't know how many more there are.</p> <p>I don't know if there are any 'come and watch the ToB it'll be GREAT' signs.</p> <p>I don't know if there are any 'come and use the closed roads it'll be GREAT' signs.</p> <p>I <em>assume</em> this is all part of CEC's events/tourism section and has little/no input from the ActiveTravel and even less 'corporate' thought about this being part of a bigger get more people cycling picture. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258276 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:45:55 +0000 paddyirish 258276@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"I suppose this is partly the thinking behind the public event on closed roads soon. BUT even though it's free it looks a bit 'commercial' - and you're supposed to register, and it's not every month and it's in the city centre... "</em></p> <p>I immediately thought that as well. guess it is a trade off- they will "use" us to get their marketing across to a wider audience. Do we think it is worth it to "use" them to get cycling available for all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258275 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:44:18 +0000 paddyirish 258275@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It almost felt like a brainstorming session- with the ideas of getting ideas out there to see if they helped. Some of them contradicted each other ...</p> <p>e.g. one suggestion she made was to look where people already cycle and ask them what can be done to make it better? Could be make a street one way for traffic- This could be a quick win and encourage a larger number of cyclists to use it/be seen there/become the norm.</p> <p>There wasn't much sympathy for people who wanted facilities e.g. showers/lockers when they got to work. "A little thing" when her target audience would be cycling in their work clothes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258274 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:42:55 +0000 chdot 258274@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Emphasis on cycling for fun, getting big numbers out having fun, especially kids - one kid, worth lots of adults and lets others see that lots of cyclists becomes normal."</p> <p>I suppose this is partly the thinking behind the public event on closed roads soon. BUT even though it's free it looks a bit 'commercial' - and you're supposed to register, and it's not every month and it's in the city centre... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258273 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:36:25 +0000 chdot 258273@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"If Danderhall isn't linked to Muirhouse then most voters, and therefore most politicians, won't be interested."</p> <p>Bad example, Danderhall is in MidL, so, "cross-border" - a different can of worms!</p> <p>But yes, this is one reason why (some) Labour councillors were lukewarm/unsympathetic to cycle infrastructure spending that didn't come near their wards.</p> <p>As I have said on here before, I was at a meeting (years ago) which was a preliminary for ATAP. There was discussion about priorities and where to spend money effectively (long before the 10% of the Transport budget was even dreamed of). The consensus was "city centre" (because that's where most people did/will cycle), though one person (who worked for a non-transport part of CEC) argued strongly for infrastructure in places where few people cycle.</p> <p>I am no longer involved in CEC's Cycling/Active Travel forums so don't know how much any thinking/planning (for instance about Family/Quiet Routes - and connections to them) is for encouraging cycling in areas where it is currently low. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258272 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:29:00 +0000 paddyirish 258272@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Authorities wouldn't go into deprived areas to do basics like fix potholes etc. When some formerly areas became "trendy" and young white people and their organic shops and the like started moving in, the cycling campaigners suddenly became interested and met with predictable scepticism.</p> <p>I will need to read the relevant section of the book to find out more.</p> <p>Another point was something along the lines of "the same 4 campaigners who attended every council meeting may have helped a little, but what really led to progress was something coming from "left field" to make politicians sit up and take notice."</p> <p>An example was full moon rides in Spokane, Washington - each full moon 100 people took their bikes and rode to the pub for a few beers. Suddenly pubs realise that was a good business opportunity and they started introducing facilities for cyclists (please come to my pub...). With business behind them, councillors took notice. Discussion around whether Belles on Bikes and cake rides can be a trigger for this here. </p> <p>Emphasis on cycling for fun, getting big numbers out having fun, especially kids - one kid, worth lots of adults and lets others see that lots of cyclists becomes normal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258270 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:15:41 +0000 sallyhinch 258270@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Peter Walker covered some of that in his Bike Nation book. One of the children killed was the daughter of a newspaper editor or journalist, which give it much greater prominence </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258269 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:07:30 +0000 Colonies_Chris 258269@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One matter I'd have liked to have seen examined was why the mothers of Amsterdam became angry enough to effect change, but the same thing didn't happen in UK cities. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258260 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:40:06 +0000 I were right about that saddle 258260@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>a key point was looking at ensuring that solutions work for the whole community and not just the white middle class</em></p> <p>One thousand times this. I do sometimes think that cycle campaigning in Edinburgh would come to an end if segregated paths were built linking Waitrose, Stewarts Melville and RBS.</p> <p>If Danderhall isn't linked to Muirhouse then most voters, and therefore most politicians, won't be interested. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258259 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:39:09 +0000 chdot 258259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"e.g. in Portland a key point was looking at ensuring that solutions work for the whole community and not just the white middle class."</p> <p>Any more detail (or do I have to read the book?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258258 Fri, 25 Aug 2017 08:24:54 +0000 paddyirish 258258@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I enjoyed that. Elly Blue was a clear and concise speaker and Sarah Boyack was an engaging chair who was knowledgeable about the subject.</p> <p>I think that what was interesting was the horses for courses approach and not blindly following the Dutch/Copenhagen model. Also working out how to convert people who are anti, by finding out what matters to them and showing how supporting cycling can help them achieve that.</p> <p>e.g. in Portland a key point was looking at ensuring that solutions work for the whole community and not just the white middle class.</p> <p>Other good examples raised included critical mass seeming to work in the US and that civil disobedience by Dutch mothers as the trigger for the Amsterdam Cycling revolution. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258227 Thu, 24 Aug 2017 19:43:54 +0000 paddyirish 258227@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If that's the uniform I'll be wearing my 2016 PoP T-Shirt. Will look out for you... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-258145 Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:42:09 +0000 Stickman 258145@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anyone else going along tonight? I'll be there in a PoP tshirt.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-257692 Sun, 20 Aug 2017 20:16:14 +0000 paddyirish 257692@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Have bought a ticket to see this and have bought the book. Looking forward to Thursday. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18039#post-257689 Sun, 20 Aug 2017 17:35:46 +0000 sallyhinch 257689@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As part of the Book Festival, Elly Blue will be talking about her book Bikenomics which should have some relevance for Edinburgh </p> <p><a href="https://www.edbookfest.co.uk/the-festival/whats-on/elly-blue-10334" rel="nofollow">https://www.edbookfest.co.uk/the-festival/whats-on/elly-blue-10334</a></p> <p>She's already been filled in by HankChief on the Roseburn issues:</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/ellyblue/status/899248604287606784" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/ellyblue/status/899248604287606784</a> </p>