http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Eight City Path Plan en Tue, 19 May 2026 16:29:08 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259992 Sat, 09 Sep 2017 09:36:31 +0000 chdot 259992@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Marketgait and so much else too</p> <p><a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/A991,+Dundee+DD1/@56.4632782,-2.9795461,3a,71.2y,359.46h,88.09t/data=" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/A991,+Dundee+DD1/@56.4632782,-2.9795461,3a,71.2y,359.46h,88.09t/data=</a>!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sUvFrOLGkVSPVLLglBW7N_w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x48865cc139dee3c9:0x451f28777b810f75?hl=en-gb</p> <p>Road systems like this were once 'the future' (see Calder Road etc.)</p> <p>Dual carriageways from narrow roads to narrow roads, un-cycle/pedestrian/environment friendly and of virtually no real benefit to drivers.</p> <p>UK not ready to reallocate this much roadspace. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259991 Sat, 09 Sep 2017 09:31:08 +0000 Frenchy 259991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Drove through Dundee yesterday.</p> <p>The Kingsway road is sooooooooo wide. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259827 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:07:05 +0000 chdot 259827@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Don't forget the grand boulevards of Calder, Ferry and Pennywell Roads plus the magnificent Silverknowes/Muirhouse Parkway."</p> <p>Aargh ANOTHER missed opportunity -</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259677 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 10:11:43 +0000 chdot 259677@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ALSO</p> <p>I know this is even more of a minority sport than CCE, but fruits of this thread should be added.</p> <p>Any volunteers?.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Cyclescape is an online campaigning toolkit for cycle campaign groups around the UK</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.cyclescape.org" rel="nofollow">https://www.cyclescape.org</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259675 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 10:09:40 +0000 sallyhinch 259675@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For people interested in the nuts and bolts of cycling infrastructure and how to apply it to the UK, I do recommend the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain. And if I can do a little cross-thread plugging, it will be coming to Glasgow on the weekend of the 16th September <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18101" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18101</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259673 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 10:03:45 +0000 Frenchy 259673@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Berwick isn't a city either. Let's leave annexation till it is. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259670 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:31:38 +0000 chdot 259670@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"On the activists in other cities point - Walk, Cycle, Vote is considering how it can build capacity for local campaign groups"</p> <p>GREAT idea</p> <p>"assuming we have enough capacity ourselves"</p> <p><em>Ought</em> to be possible to get some funding(?)</p> <p>You might manage to get Dumfries promoted to City State. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259669 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:30:02 +0000 chdot 259669@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I suggest forking 'annexing Berwick upon Tweed' into its own thread"</p> <p>Careful...</p> <p>"</p> <p>Berwick-upon-Tweed, England's most northerly town, is technically at war with Russia.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/art38768" rel="nofollow">http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/art38768</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259668 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:28:40 +0000 sallyhinch 259668@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the activists in other cities point - Walk, Cycle, Vote is considering how it can build capacity for local campaign groups, assuming we have enough capacity ourselves. POP did spawn a POP Inverness this year and there is also POP Aberdeen, so hopefully some movement there </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259666 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:22:43 +0000 sallyhinch 259666@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IWRATS has promoted Dumfries to city status (the Civic Association did apparently apply for it to become a city for the Jubilee a few years ago but as they had neglected to consult the coonsil first their application was ruled invalid). Although it clearly isn't a city, leaving it out would mean nothing at all in the southern belt, unless we annex Berwick upon Tweed, and obviously as I live in the area I'd be keen for it to get whatever cycling infra is going</p> <p>Edited to add: just in case it gets any traction, I suggest forking 'annexing Berwick upon Tweed' into its own thread </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259658 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 08:23:26 +0000 Tulyar 259658@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Woah - The Trondheim ski-tow is a liability! plus of course it is only any used for solo bikes ridden by fairly fit people with 2 normally functioning legs.</p> <p>20 years ago Bristol were getting all enthused about Park Street and Edinburgh slightly interested for Dundas Street. It was noted that as well as the disruptive costs of digging up roads and installing, there would be a maintenance costs of cleaning out the slots etc with an indicative figure of £1000/metre/year </p> <p>For the Bristol Park Street budget I worked out that for around a fifth of the cost, 2 secondhand totally low floor minibuses could be purchased and set-up to operate a shuttle service as a roll-on roll-off facility for all who might struggle going up AND coming down the hill (wheelchair users especially). The service could have a nominal fare paid off-bus, to avoid boarding delays, or be free to use - with the potnetial for the service to be branded (for Dundas Street perhaps Standard Life/Aberdeen Asset Management?)</p> <p>The nice additional details are that there would be no interrupted operation of the cable running to handle road crossings/traffic signals and the service could start immediately with no major road works. A fairly simple route with a roundabout at each end (Cannonmills &amp; George Street), and the option to have all electric vehicles</p> <p>Ro-Ro bike buses would have been an even better solition than the Tunnel Bike Bus that Merseyrail operated when the Liverpool City Loop was closed for rebuilding (after 40 years), and might even have a place at other locations.</p> <p>The Forth and Tay Bridges are also challenging for the non committed and the RoRo option is one possibility, but the frequency of regular coach services (with hold space) and buses wth off-peak space in the saloon. Funding might support this as a trial to establish such measures as demand, operating costs of all types (financial, time, vehicle numbers and designs..) and from that refine the delivery to a sustainable one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259655 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 08:12:20 +0000 chdot 259655@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Nicola Sturgeon admitted plans to ban some older high-polluting cars could prove unpopular but said it had to be done.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/three-quarters-of-scotland-s-diesel-cars-face-city-centres-ban-1-4553071" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/three-quarters-of-scotland-s-diesel-cars-face-city-centres-ban-1-4553071</a></p> <p>Real possibilities here for serious mode shift to bikes (inc electric) - will need better infrastructure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259654 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 08:05:47 +0000 I were right about that saddle 259654@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Um, officially there are only 7.</em></p> <p>That's just, like, your opinion, man.</p> <p><em>Maybe get this org involved ASAP.</em></p> <p>Worth a try. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259653 Thu, 07 Sep 2017 08:01:49 +0000 cb 259653@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stirling?: Bannockburn in the south east; St Ninians; then into the Centre via St Ninians Roan. Then: The railway station; Riverside; The Raploch; Craigforth/Dobbies </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259649 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 23:49:01 +0000 Frenchy 259649@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Very useful data source, @HankChief. I'll look more closely later, but the thing that immediately stood out is the large number of people driving from Corstorphine to South Gyle.</p> <p>Can't figure out which point includes the ERI, either. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259646 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 23:24:32 +0000 chdot 259646@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Don't forget the grand boulevards of Calders, Ferry and Pennywell Roads plus the magnificent Silverknowes/Muirhouse Parkway. </p> <p>Coincidentally in parts of the city without much cycling (see previous threads). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259645 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 23:18:32 +0000 chdot 259645@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"which isn't necessarily the right choice anymore"</p> <p>Perhaps an understatement(?)</p> <p>New circumstances, new (CEC) politicians, new Czar. </p> <p>Compile the Ed bit of this and meet. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259644 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 23:05:13 +0000 HankChief 259644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think the ATAP does need a refresh. It is based on the Quiet Routes plan which isn't necessarily the right choice anymore.</p> <p>One bit of data that would be useful to analyse is the commuting data in the 2011 consensus.</p> <p><a href="http://scotlandcommute.datashine.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://scotlandcommute.datashine.org.uk</a></p> <p>Which can be filtered to see where we have large volumes of car based commuting to adjacent areas - ideal targets for switching to active travel. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259643 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 23:03:19 +0000 chdot 259643@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Um, officially there are only 7.</p> <p>Maybe get this org involved ASAP.</p> <p>"</p> <p>The Scottish Cities Alliance is the unique collaboration of Scotland’s seven cities – Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Perth and Stirling – and the Scottish Government working together to promote the country’s great economic potential.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.scottishcities.org.uk" rel="nofollow">https://www.scottishcities.org.uk</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259642 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 22:57:58 +0000 chdot 259642@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also this might to help to encourage people to want/expect better conditions for cycling -</p> <p>"Shutting the city centre (regularly) - who wants to try?"</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18096" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18096</a></p> <p>Imagine ALL Scottish cities closing their city centres on a Sunday - at least once a year! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259641 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 22:50:13 +0000 chdot 259641@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The key thing is that cycling routes should be safe, direct, and convenient, sadly the current ATAP is for routes that are anything but."</p> <p>Perhaps now is the time to call for/expect a complete reappraisal of the ATAP intentions/process.</p> <p>Once it was almost radical, now it may be about to be left behind by other Scottish cities (Glasgow at least). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259639 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 22:39:08 +0000 Kim 259639@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The key thing is that cycling routes should be safe, direct, and convenient, sadly the current ATAP is for routes that are anything but. </p> <p>The obvious route south from Princes Street is a separated cycle lane along Lothian Road, instead the funding bid is to go up the Mound! Yeah, that is the obvious route for families riding with kids. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259637 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 22:32:45 +0000 chdot 259637@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Motorists face being hit with £20 a day fines to drive in the city centre unless their vehicles have the cleanest engines under plans for the first low emission zone in the Capital.</p> <p>...</p> <p>Aberdeen and Dundee to follow two years later. While the exact location of the city centre is not yet known, the charge would be ten times the £2 a day congestion charge proposed for Edinburgh 15 years ago which planned a zone around the city centre stretching from Stockbridge to Newington.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/motorists-face-20-pollution-charge-to-drive-in-edinburgh-by-2020-1-4553053" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/motorists-face-20-pollution-charge-to-drive-in-edinburgh-by-2020-1-4553053</a></p> <p>Could be a useful funding source... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106&page=2#post-259629 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 21:43:08 +0000 Rosie 259629@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So - Design it and They Will Build, Build it and They Will Come.</p> <p>There's certainly enough cycling knowledge in Edinburgh to put together a master plan for Edinburgh and the Lothians. There are also enough activists in the various groups to campaign on it. How could we proceed with this? i.e. agree a plan and then start pressing the powers that be. </p> <p>Would POP be able to get this idea around to cycling groups/ activists in other regions? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106#post-259612 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 20:23:02 +0000 I were right about that saddle 259612@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Has anyone punted this thread on to folk in the other cities? Family and friends style. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106#post-259609 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 19:57:07 +0000 chdot 259609@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's also important that the new infrastructure is designed/intended to attract new people to using bikes for transport.</p> <p>Otherwise it's tinkering to improve things for people like 'us'.</p> <p>Won't be cheap, but might make Scotland's cities more like the best in Europe and North America.</p> <p>Will save NHS money 10 years down the line, maybe sooner.</p> <p>Will reduce the pressure for 'more roads' (not that many cities have room for them) and ought to save money on road maintenance, with fewer motor vehicles.</p> <p>Make it easier to meet climate change targets etc. etc.</p> <p>The SG seems to be 'getting it', let's hope they really mean it and understand it might be tough - unless of course more people realise it's what they expect 21st C governments to do...</p> <p>SG might have to actually work more closely with cities too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106#post-259606 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 19:40:33 +0000 chdot 259606@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hope there will be suggestions for 'easy' - might need to remove parking - and more ambitious, perhaps new bridges.</p> <p>The new infrastructure won't all get done in year one (or ten probably), but SG needs to be presented with a report that shows ambition and demonstrates the scale of investment required. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106#post-259605 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 19:35:13 +0000 Frenchy 259605@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That does sound rubbish, but it might still be better than what's available north-south.</p> <p>In Inverness, the obvious (but not necessarily best, obviously) option is down the east bank of the Ness, from somewhere in the south to the Kessock bridge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106#post-259580 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 17:02:40 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 259580@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Frenchy</p> <p>NCN 1 east in Dundee is rubbish. Unbelievably, you have to get buzzed in by security through a metal gate into the docks, and apparently you <em>may</em> have to show photo ID (thankfully I didn't). A less raw deal than unaccredited pedestrians though - they get told to PO. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18106#post-259579 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 17:00:49 +0000 chdot 259579@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"that is valuable space that could be much better used"</p> <p>And so many other places. </p> <p>Some are complicated by having pedestrian "refuges". If it's a good place to cross the road, should probably have proper crossings. </p>