http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Tram markings plan to help cyclists in Edinburgh en Fri, 15 May 2026 01:48:54 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-367572 Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:29:27 +0000 neddie 367572@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Can confirm. I rode this on Friday night and it was ok </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-367570 Sun, 16 Apr 2023 17:56:35 +0000 CycleAlex 367570@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Tram Cycle Safety work is complete at South St Andrew Street. Far, <em>far</em> better than before. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-364231 Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:14:55 +0000 chrisfl 364231@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The rate of work on the roseburn to Haymarket section at the moment is remarkable, given how little has been built in the 8 months. </p> <p>I did see someone cycling along the not yet open section already today. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-364204 Wed, 12 Oct 2022 21:57:55 +0000 CycleAlex 364204@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Next set of work at South Charlotte Street getting underway tomorrow. <a href="https://twitter.com/edintravel/status/1580210113008107521" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/edintravel/status/1580210113008107521</a></p> <p><blockquote>West End tram cycle safety measures</p> <p>Thurs 13 Oct for 2-3 wks<br /> Restrictions 11.30pm - 5am each night</p> <p>Queensferry St &amp; citybound Shandwick Pl closed at Princes St;<br /> Temporary traffic lights for Lothian Rd / Princes St / South Charlotte St</p> <p><a href="https://bit.ly/3EB9n40" rel="nofollow">https://bit.ly/3EB9n40</a></blockquote> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-364017 Wed, 05 Oct 2022 14:14:33 +0000 CycleAlex 364017@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fairly swift progress on Grosvenor Street.<br /> <img src="https://i.imgur.com/CVDumoM.jpg"><br /> <img src="https://i.imgur.com/LtQywCV.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-362372 Sat, 06 Aug 2022 23:30:14 +0000 CycleAlex 362372@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is <em>finally</em> actual, tangible progress on this! </p> <p>South St Andrew St (the most significant section) starts construction on 05/09. The Grosvenor St no entry as well as smaller changes at Haymarket junction/South Charlotte St will then follow in September/October. </p> <p>The other work outside Haymarket itself and Haymarket yards is now part of CCWEL and will happen in January. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-315324 Mon, 07 Oct 2019 07:37:38 +0000 CycleAlex 315324@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wingpig The traffic management was bemusing so quite possibly. Left lane northbound on Lothian Road was closed but then once you got around the corner, the right and middle lanes were closed! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-315323 Mon, 07 Oct 2019 07:23:38 +0000 wingpig 315323@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm. A lanesworth of the middle of S Charlotte St was coned-off during the day last week for no apparent purpose other than to force poor drivers to have to swervily change lanes into cyclists so it might just be that work moving down a bit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-315322 Mon, 07 Oct 2019 07:07:16 +0000 CycleAlex 315322@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Tulyar Haymarket should get better once CCWEL has been built and many will enter the toucan there and cross to the bidirectional cycleway. In the meantime however it'll still just chuck you into the back of the several buses that are usually waiting there </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-315320 Mon, 07 Oct 2019 07:02:32 +0000 CycleAlex 315320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Princes Street/S Charlotte Street junction had several lanes closed over night. Hopefully the start of this work! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-315024 Tue, 01 Oct 2019 08:08:48 +0000 Tulyar 315024@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo any link to further info on mobility scooter fall PM if anything. I saw a wheelchair user lock-in to track in Manchester a couple of years ago, watching as my tram pulled away and the person crossed the on street track behind.</p> <p>Notes on document </p> <p>Its not a simple job for the South St Andrew Street-Waverley Bridge bit <strong>(Page 1)</strong> Road plate &amp; settlement of concrete &amp;c needs to be fixed </p> <p><a href="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48342491242_fc2be510eb_b.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48342491242_fc2be510eb_b.jpg</a><em><br /> Note : 'current' road plate at 'choke' point marked up<br /> </em><br /> <a href="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48342196356_43f9670706_c.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48342196356_43f9670706_c.jpg</a><em><br /> Note : Tarmac between edge of main concrete top slab and kerb replaced with concrete (unknown thickness/reinforcement/supporting ground compaction) which has settled and cracked, especially around the gulley frame</em></p> <p><a href="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48342198416_19d95d762a_b.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48342198416_19d95d762a_b.jpg</a><em><br /> Note : Approach - at Waverley Bridge right turn edge of upper slab, broken and loosening<br /> </em><br /> Then <strong>Page 3 work</strong> still has the massive hazard cluster of the cycle lane traffic being </p> <p>a) channelled in strip less than 1 metre wide which does not 'fit' the envelope of the natural movement of a cyclist making an S bend move, </p> <p>b) also not turning as their tyre sits over the groove, or a thermoplastic road marking (a deadly slippery feature where the road signs manual sets a limit of 3mm as the thickness for this material </p> <p>c) has cyclists in the Developed Kinetic Envelope (DKE) of the tram - the unsafe zone marked out by a kerb-line, round yellow dots, or dashed white lines, which needs to be clear for the tram to get past safely. At one point currently there is just 90 cm between the kerb upstand and the rail edge, and that has 2 10 cm wide thermoplastic yellow lines on one side and a solid thermoplastic white line on the other.</p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/43063316172/in/album-72157684865323565/" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/43063316172/in/album-72157684865323565/</a><br /> <em>Notes : DKE is marked by yellow dots approach to Haymarket Station </em></p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/48825086506" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/48825086506</a><br /> <em>Notes : track gauge 1.435m - transfer to cycle 'lane' = &lt; 1.4m plus note line of yellow dots in distance = DKE . Note also tarmac patches where concrete has broken up</em></p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/20381087135/in/album-72157684865323565/" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/20381087135/in/album-72157684865323565/</a><br /> <em>Notes : And it gets narrower!</em></p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/17983691764/in/album-72157684865323565/" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/17983691764/in/album-72157684865323565/</a><br /> <em>Notes : Before red paint - showing 40cm of yellow lines &amp; a total mess half-setts/half concrete surface ahead - full of ridges set to deflect tyres etc</em></p> <p>d) still 'fires' cycle traffic out directly into the path of bus drivers pulling in to the bus stops at Haymarket, where the road surface was (is)) in an atrocious state, ripped apart further by the heavy forces of 12-18 Ton buses and coaches braking and accelerating away pushing the (fluid) tarmac around</p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/21447293309/in/album-72157684865323565/" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/21447293309/in/album-72157684865323565/</a><br /> <em>Notes : needs a better photo - bus pulling in <u>through</u> route cyclists directed to use. Cyclists are likely to slow down to avoid running into the side of the bus at the critical point of crossing the rail groove. My tyre went into the groove at Haymarket when I had to slow down &amp; react to a bus 'cutting across' - fortunately I reacted quickly to pull up the front wheel and did not fall off</em></p> <p><a href="https://live.staticflickr.com/7822/40305257093_045212901b_h.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://live.staticflickr.com/7822/40305257093_045212901b_h.jpg</a></p> <p>Here's a growing album of Edinburgh Tram's disastrous Phase 1 street track, along with the post-fitted doubled-up rail fixings on the noisy tight curve at Ingliston P&amp;R, and some of the foot crossings on the off-street sections 7 of which have been cited for risk audit review in the report on the Saughton fatality.</p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/72157684865323565" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/72157684865323565</a> </p> <p>A further detail here needs to be the recognition that cyclists are and should be able to use West Maitland Street Westbound.</p> <p>I've also done a follow through on tram-cycle crashes, 2014 and one last month</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14020" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14020</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-314975 Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:27:18 +0000 bacam 314975@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@CycleAlex Looks promising - the locations match, including "North footway at South St Andrew Street" which would be the mini-cycleway to cross the tramline separately from other traffic. It might not be all of the work though because I think December has a roadworks embargo. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-314969 Sun, 29 Sep 2019 15:59:59 +0000 CycleAlex 314969@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://roadworks.org" rel="nofollow">https://roadworks.org</a> is showing planned works at all the consultation sites with works ending 25/11. Am I optimistic in thinking this will be the tram safety work? The action plan shows it taking 11 months in 2020... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-312839 Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:57:09 +0000 gembo 312839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Edinburgh’s top charity hustler aged 99 has fallen off his mobility scooter on tram tracks at York place </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-312836 Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:55:48 +0000 CycleAlex 312836@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That should be part of this work - designs on page 5 here <a href="https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/supporting_documents/Tram%20Cycle%20Safety%20Phase%203%20Consultation%20Drawing.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/supporting_documents/Tram%20Cycle%20Safety%20Phase%203%20Consultation%20Drawing.pdf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-312834 Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:43:21 +0000 neddie 312834@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When are they planning to do something about Grosvenor Street at the Dalry Rd. to West Maitland St. crossing?</p> <p>I thought there were plans in the pipeline...? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-312832 Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:12:04 +0000 CycleAlex 312832@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From one of the active travel project managers:<br /> “We are now in the final stages of appointing a contractor to take forward the construction. Under this, construction is currently scheduled to commence this autumn.” </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-312412 Sun, 11 Aug 2019 21:32:16 +0000 CycleAlex 312412@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Have the RSOs already been advertised for phase 3? Slightly stumped as to what would be causing such a delay. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-306472 Sun, 12 May 2019 20:23:10 +0000 Frenchy 306472@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Spokes were told in February that it'd be "this summer".</p> <p>Phase 4 (Lothian Road junction) is on hold pending Transformation decisions, so hopefully more news on that soon too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=6#post-306471 Sun, 12 May 2019 20:06:31 +0000 CycleAlex 306471@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anyone know if there's been progress on phase 3 yet? Went down to look at what was going on at Leith Street recently and it reminded me how deeply unpleasant it is to cross the tracks at Princes Street/St Andrew Street. </p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2017/10/tramline-safety-measures/">Spokes article</a> suggests completion in Autumn 2018 and <a href="https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/supporting_documents/Tram%20phase%203_summary%20sheet_final.pdf">council leaflet</a> says "we are currently aiming for construction of the proposals to<br /> commence in late 2018". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301757 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:23:21 +0000 Roibeard 301757@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Arellcat - from the plans, cyclists from Dalry Road appeared to pass the "no left turn" sign just as those from Clifton Terrace, because the sign was placed quite far along Clifton Terrace - the complex junction design being really a right turn on to Clifton Terrace, then left into Grosvenor Street, rather than straight on from Dalry Road into Grosvenor Street.</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301756 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:30:59 +0000 Arellcat 301756@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The No Left Turn sign is positioned on Clifton Terrace, so I would presume applies only to vehicles on that road, not vehicles coming from Dalry Road. The cycle lane from Dalry Road is only a recommended path, not a mandatory route, so a cyclist - or any other road user - is not required to observe the NLT sign. The No Entry signs neatly bar all non-cyclists from any other direction.</p> <p>The awkwardness is that cyclists coming from Haymarket should be able to ignore the NLT sign. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301755 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:01:25 +0000 Frenchy 301755@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Is there a mechanism for pointing out issues like this with TROs? </em></p> <p>I can PM you contact details for the officers dealing with this, if you want to ask them about it? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301753 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:51:56 +0000 jonty 301753@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am extremely not a lawyer, but I think the only bit which actually has legal force is the proposed Order which simply says that a bit of Grosvenor Street is going one-way - everything else is just an implementation detail and can be tweaked afterwards. Maybe? It is probably worth writing to note support for the Order but a small technical concern with the plans.</p> <p>I'm not quite sure why the pavement changes don't require an RSO when things like closing off a driveway seem to (not that I'm objecting!) Maybe they do?</p> <p>EDIT: having said that the Order seems to say it will be one way for 20m 'or thereby' - is that just giving them license to make the one way entry section as long as they like? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301750 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:15:28 +0000 ejstubbs 301750@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>@Roibeard</strong>: <em>My concern is with the "no left turn" sign, which means cyclists can only enter the one way by cycling straight into or turning right into Grosvenor Street.</em></p> <p>It does look as if someone has forgotten to add the "Except cycles" sign underneath.</p> <p>Is there a mechanism for pointing out issues like this with TROs? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301738 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 09:43:59 +0000 Roibeard 301738@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My concern is with the "no left turn" sign, which means cyclists can only enter the one way by cycling straight into or turning right into Grosvenor Street. Unfortunately, due to the contraflow, there is no legal way of making this manoeuvre.</p> <p>So, the intent must have been that cyclists could turn left into Grosvenor Street, either coming from Dalry Road, or Clifton Terrace, despite passing the "no left turn" sign.</p> <p>As it stands, I don't think it will be legal for cyclists to use Grosvenor Road without walking across the central island!</p> <p>Does no one proof read these plans prior to publishing? Omitting "except cycles" on the "no left turn" could be overlooked, but the mirrored cycle contraflow sign should have been obvious...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301736 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 09:12:00 +0000 jonty 301736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In reality I think that sign is used for all cycling contraflow one-way schemes regardless of whether or not there is a contraflow lane of any sort. </p> <p>See <a href="https://goo.gl/maps/uTW1a3rYkTx" rel="nofollow">https://goo.gl/maps/uTW1a3rYkTx</a></p> <p>I agree it's bizarre that it's the wrong way around though! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301690 Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:05:31 +0000 Frenchy 301690@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Was gonna say - one way it could be a bit better is if they'd done a kerb-separated contraflow bike lane sort of thing,</em></p> <p>Interestingly*, the blue signs they've shown are those for when there's a mandatory contraflow cycle lane. The signs also seem to be back to front.</p> <p>*For some definition of interesting... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301688 Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:31:35 +0000 jonty 301688@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Was gonna say - one way it could be a bit better is if they'd done a kerb-separated contraflow bike lane sort of thing, allowing the green man to be on almost all the time with a separate crossing of some description for bikes entering the road. As it is, you'll end up with similar uncertainty as the red man will still be on most of the time (but less consequence). Same problem with the cycles-only left turn from the top of Leith Street. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18187&page=5#post-301667 Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:30:55 +0000 ejstubbs 301667@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It should certainly help pedestrians: the pedestrian lights at the south end of Grosvenor Street are on a very lengthy cycle (as are most of the others along that Haymarket-Shandwick Place corridor). With traffic potentially coming at you from any one of three different directions (four if you include Morrison Street - I'm pretty sure it's <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.946191,-3.2162417,3a,75y,322h,95.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7ddh2F2I4b7QkftiDEMIDg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192">actually illegal</a> but I've seen it done) it's not easy to cross with confidence against the red man. With only bikes and southbound motor vehicles to worry about it should be that bit less stressful making one's way on foot along what is, after all, a prime route through the city. </p>