http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Careless driving outcome? en Tue, 19 May 2026 17:51:01 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265550 Fri, 03 Nov 2017 22:16:53 +0000 algo 265550@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ragiingbike - I am very sorry to hear about this - what a total disgrace. I would very happily contribute to any civil case or otherwise would that be helpful in some way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265534 Fri, 03 Nov 2017 21:20:55 +0000 I were right about that saddle 265534@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ragingbike</p> <p>That is a bitter, bitter draught. I feel your pain. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265528 Fri, 03 Nov 2017 20:44:37 +0000 Rob 265528@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is crazy. If you're charged with careless driving on a lit street "I didn't see him" isn't a defence, it's a confession!</p> <p>Reminds me of the recent case down south where someone charged with dangerous driving was found not guilty because he was "too close to stop". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265427 Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:59:30 +0000 neddie 265427@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IIRC, the cereal-eating offender was charged, but found "not guilty" as well. Hmmm.</p> <p>CCE thread:<br /> <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11716" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11716</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265382 Thu, 02 Nov 2017 11:49:18 +0000 miak 265382@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dom D thanks that helps ! :-)</p> <p>The JP is I think the same one in the cereal eating case no idea of his name @neddie_h</p> <p>@ejstubbs The insurance company accepted liability after i tweeted a pic of the car fully repaired 6 weeks after the event (replete with parking ticket) ...it took them another 5 months to pay for the bike... still awaiting compensation... cyclelaw are handling that.</p> <p>But pursuing the insurance company created a whole new problem for me which i cant discuss here but it has had me need to hire a criminal defence lawyer...because i got knocked down.</p> <p>also thanks to everyone for the legal fund idea... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265381 Thu, 02 Nov 2017 11:39:12 +0000 ejstubbs 265381@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ragingbike: I would suggest that you seriously consider seeking legal advice as a matter of urgency. Especially so if the driver's insurance company is refusing to cough up, or attempting to pursue you for restitution.</p> <p>AIUI JP court decisions can be appealed to the High Court of Justiciary, but I believe that would have to be done by the Procurator Fiscal, so I doubt there's much chance of that actually happening, particularly since in this instance the prosecution seems to have put so little effort in to presenting their case, or rebutting the defence's victim blaming strategy.</p> <p>The JP in this case does seem to have reached a thunderingly stupid conclusion. Apparently there's no way to complain about a JP's decision, only their behaviour (I suspect that "by reaching this decision the JP was behaving like an arse" probably wouldn't cut it, unfortunately.) Given that JP's can judge a case sitting alone, this doesn't seem particularly fair. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265354 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 23:40:23 +0000 neddie 265354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Who is the JP? Can they be named? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265352 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 23:25:55 +0000 Dom D 265352@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If it’s any consolation to @Ragingbike every one of the Road Policing officers I showed the video to tonight considered it a stonewall Section 3 offence. I’d question if the JP court is still fit for purpose? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265351 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 23:25:46 +0000 minus six 265351@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Own judgement and common sense"</p> <p>Clearly this JP has neither.</em></p> <p>aye but.. didn't they have both ?</p> <p>four wheels good, two wheels bad</p> <p>is it not <em>common sense judgement</em> that some two-wheeled ne'er-do-well in a BLACK jacket is inherently responsible for this mishap ?</p> <p>its no surprise to me that the car is WHITE</p> <p><strong>btw i've been cut up in the exact same manner at this very same junction almost every day for years</strong></p> <p>the cyclist is coming downhill and the uphill facing driver wanting to turn right at the junction is NOT willing to wait</p> <p>QUEENSFERRY ST / MELVILLE STREET JUNCTION</p> <p>there have been daylight videos on youtube showing the exact same thing</p> <p>this is a systemic issue. but no one joins the dots </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265338 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 22:53:44 +0000 minus six 265338@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Does careless driving really fit into this low level category? </em></p> <p>it does indeed</p> <p>and as we already know, most dangerous driving routinely gets downgraded to careless driving</p> <p>and yer average two-bit local busybody JP* who most certainly didn't use active travel to get to the court that day is the local totem decision maker</p> <p>the JP will lord it up on the big chair with the attitude that defence and prosecution counsel should see fit to "impress them" one way or another</p> <p>hence diabolical <em>insufficient burden of proof</em> outcomes </p> <p><em>*with apologies to frenchy's granny who was undoubtedly the exception to the rule</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265327 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 22:23:16 +0000 Frenchy 265327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My granny was a JP. I always assumed she'd gotten training to do this, but apparently not. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265323 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 22:08:51 +0000 acsimpson 265323@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Justices of the Peace do not need special legal training</em></p> <p>So a jury of one then! aka kangaroo court, although even then there would normally be more than one kangaroo. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265304 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 19:24:17 +0000 morepathsplease 265304@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Luath<br /> @RagingBike</p> <p>I would be happy to contribute to a civil action or indeed anything related to your previous case. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265303 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 19:01:57 +0000 Min 265303@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Own judgement and common sense"</p> <p>Clearly this JP has neither. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265302 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 19:00:41 +0000 ih 265302@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>OMG, didn't know Scotland had JPs. From Wikipedia it seems they deal with low level offences. Does careless driving really fit into this low level category? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265299 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 18:43:54 +0000 minus six 265299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Justices of the Peace do not need special legal training in order to arrive at their decisions. They are ordinary members of the community who use their own judgement and common sense to assess the facts in relation to each case which comes before them, and to come to a view about the guilt or innocence of the accused, and the correct sentence which should be imposed.</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265297 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 18:36:12 +0000 ih 265297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Did this happen in Scotland? Would be a Sheriff then, who really should know better. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265294 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 18:30:57 +0000 minus six 265294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Psychologically, Scotland hasn't kicked on much since the middle ages</p> <p>Just protect the herd, and cast out the heathen outliers</p> <p>I'm ashamed to live here </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265280 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:22:04 +0000 davidsonsdave 265280@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>...far far worse</em></p> <p>The insurance company won't pay for a new bike? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265267 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 14:48:56 +0000 Luath 265267@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You've got my sympathies Ragingbike. Years ago I went through a court case as 'victim' (not cycle related) and it was a deeply unpleasant experience. It really does shatter your faith in justice to get this outcome in a case a clear as this one.</p> <p>If you are involved in some kind of civil action and need some assistance with that then I'm sure many of us would contribute what we can. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265252 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 12:12:30 +0000 amir 265252@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Truly awful Ragingbike.</p> <p>And really worrying. Once again we see the legal system is incapable of holding bad drivers to account. </p> <p>I really can't understand why didn't see you is a proper defence. You were on the road. The car had lights, you had lights. The streets had lights. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265251 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 12:05:43 +0000 neddie 265251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's really awful RagingBike.</p> <p>We should get someone like Bez / Beyond the Kerb to write up this case, especially if you are now being sued.</p> <p><a href="https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265248 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 11:53:33 +0000 nevelbell 265248@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is dreadful. </p> <p>What message does this give to other drivers - 'if you hit a cyclist and it's your fault, just say you didn't see them'</p> <p>Just awful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307&page=2#post-265245 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 11:19:46 +0000 miak 265245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@robert far far worse</p> <p>Independent witness ... good guy ... led by the defence into ‘dark clothing’ I had a black reflective night vision jacket on so yes dark but totally reflective ’ was the car travelling slowly maybe In first gear ? ‘Yes’ .... he had seen me st the ASLso was still quite far away but totally great guy he had helped me on the ground ... and responded to my request to be a witness </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307#post-265241 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:57:22 +0000 biketrain 265241@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>RB I feel your pain. </p> <p>Were there any independent witnesses in court? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307#post-265240 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:52:29 +0000 Roibeard 265240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>.....it gets worse</em></p> <p>No doubt because the driver's insurance company is pursuing you for the damage to the vehicle.</p> <p>I sincerely hope to be wrong.</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307#post-265239 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:47:37 +0000 unhurt 265239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ragingbike I'm raging on your behalf. Unreal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307#post-265237 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:41:41 +0000 steveo 265237@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>shirley not? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307#post-265236 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:37:43 +0000 miak 265236@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>.....it gets worse </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18307#post-265225 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 09:05:26 +0000 Min 265225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Disgusting RB. I don't even have words. </p>