http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Public Meeting – City Centre Transformation - Wed 13th June en Tue, 19 May 2026 19:36:15 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-292365 Thu, 27 Sep 2018 20:21:09 +0000 chdot 292365@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://twitter.com/daisynmurphy/status/1045076356260917248?s=21" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/daisynmurphy/status/1045076356260917248?s=21</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291091 Thu, 13 Sep 2018 11:20:44 +0000 neddie 291091@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I predict Victoria St and Cockburn St (and maybe a few others) will be traffic free in 2 years</em></p> <p>Sorry, but why do they need to wait 2 years?</p> <p>1. Raise a Temporary Traffic Regulation Order (TTRO).<br /> 2. Drop some concrete blocks at the bottom of Victoria St in the name of "terrorism".<br /> 3. Remove the one-way signs.<br /> 4. Remove all the parking spaces (or at least near the bottom) to allow vehicles to turn around at the bottom.<br /> 5. Leave a few loading bays to keep the shops happy in the interim.<br /> 6. Job done. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291057 Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:54:40 +0000 Blueth 291057@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Round my way folk just paint their own no parking lines on the road to define their, unauthorised, driveways. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291041 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:56:22 +0000 Stickman 291041@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>BIG (still unanswered to my satisfaction) question is how much other cities are (not) constrained by rules/laws/consultation processes </em></p> <p>Look at the time it takes to get a double yellow line painted. </p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/58435/item_82_-_north_west_locality_parking_restrictions_work_plan" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/58435/item_82_-_north_west_locality_parking_restrictions_work_plan</a></p> <p>How is a city centre transformation going to happen this century? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291040 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:54:11 +0000 Harts Cyclery 291040@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie, I predict Victoria St and Cockburn St (and maybe a few others) will be traffic free in 2 years. I might be wrong, but I hope I'm right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291039 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:42:29 +0000 chdot 291039@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://twitter.com/daisynmurphy/status/1039903571842621441" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/daisynmurphy/status/1039903571842621441</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291013 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:14:25 +0000 chdot 291013@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Seville's approach was the only way to get it done: barge ahead and leave the opponents behind.”</p> <p>And other examples. </p> <p>BIG (still unanswered to my satisfaction) question is how much other cities are (not) constrained by rules/laws/consultation processes - presumably less than U.K./Edinburgh?</p> <p>Even so, must be some - ignored or circumvented?</p> <p>In other places, definitely strong officer leadership (that REALLY should have been Paul Lawrence’s mission). Sometimes in other cities officials ‘just did stuff without explicit political instructions. </p> <p><em>Perhaps</em> more importantly, some serious political fronting. </p> <p>Arguably progress in London was Boris’ finest hour. Equally, arguably, he got lucky by appointing Andrew Gilligan. </p> <p>Either way, some things happened, and unfortunately the current mayor seems less interested. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-291004 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 13:26:48 +0000 Stickman 291004@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I started out with optimism about this, but that is being worn down.</p> <p>The SNP/Labour coalition is looking shaky, Edinburgh SNP itself appears to be an unhappy place and the Conservatives will do anything to break this up, especially if it means standing up against the War On The Motorist. Outside the Greens, I'd be surprised if there was any kind of majority in support of this. </p> <p>Add in the entrenched council attitude and it's difficult to see how anything beyond tinkering around the edges will happen, despite Daisy's best efforts. Seville's approach was the only way to get it done: barge ahead and leave the opponents behind. But TIE. </p> <p>I hope to be proved wrong. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-290991 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:50:39 +0000 neddie 290991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I cycled to the Grassmarket and up Victoria St this morning at rush hour.</p> <p>By goodness, the Grassmarket was full of visible dirty diesel fumes (&amp; other invisible fumes too no doubt).</p> <p>Victoria St was parked up on both sides and had a queue of about 7 or 8 vehicles at the top and also stank of fumes. The setts of this street have also been damaged by motor traffic &amp; patched over with ugly tar strips.</p> <p>What a mess. World heritage site, my ...</p> <p>The council need to put bollards at one end of this street <strong>today</strong>. Block it to through traffic and make it access only (&amp; two way).</p> <p>It needs to be done <strong>now</strong>. Not in several years time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-290986 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:25:48 +0000 Harts Cyclery 290986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Great stuff. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-290976 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:21:34 +0000 crowriver 290976@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"(She’s only on secondment from Sustrans for one year.)"</p> <p>Yeah, the worry has to be that as per usual, ambitious plans will get kicked down the road until after she's gone, and then quietly shelved or fudged into timid and quite useless compromises. </p> <p>We'll see though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-290974 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:19:01 +0000 chdot 290974@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>We want a city where the layout actively encourages and promotes healthier – and cheaper! – transport like walking and cycling and where a truly integrated public transport system with smart, flexible ticketing enables residents and visitors to get reliably and safely from A to B.</p> <p>“</p> <p>(She’s only on secondment from Sustrans for one year.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-290973 Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:14:21 +0000 Stickman 290973@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/daisy-narayanan-no-jams-tomorrow-is-council-aim-1-4798183" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/daisy-narayanan-no-jams-tomorrow-is-council-aim-1-4798183</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-288345 Sat, 04 Aug 2018 11:46:05 +0000 crowriver 288345@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider, indeed. All it will take is for the traffic modelling gurus at CEC to dismiss any pedestrianisation proposals as leading to "unacceptable queueing" (of motor vehicles) and they will be watered down to something less than useless.</p> <p>The Picardy Place/Leith Street debacle really demonstrated that the council is unwilling to make meaningful changes, even where it has the power to do so. Also demonstrates that the various policies and visions on transport adopted by council over the years are worthless if poerful vested interests have other, contrary ideas. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-288340 Sat, 04 Aug 2018 09:42:21 +0000 Morningsider 288340@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>HankChief - I appreciate your optimism, but this isn't "a start". We already have:</p> <p>National Transport Strategy<br /> Long Term Vision for Active Travel in Scotland to 2030<br /> Designing Streets<br /> Designing Places<br /> Cycling Action Plan for Scotland<br /> SEStran Regional Transport Strategy<br /> Edinburgh Local Transport Strategy<br /> Edinburgh Active Travel Action Plan<br /> Edinburgh Transport Vision 2030<br /> Edinburgh Street Design Guidance<br /> Gehl Report - Edinburgh Revisited: Public Space, Public Life</p> <p>Not to mention a whole raft of planning/conservation/urban design plans, strategies etc.</p> <p>Despite how this is being sold - it is really a boring old review of the Local Transport Strategy, a refresh of the 2030 vision and a reheating of the more palatable (to the Council) remains of the Gehl report.</p> <p>I genuinely hope something comes of this, and I will be arguing for it in any consultation. </p> <p>I don't know - maybe it's just consultation fatigue, or seemingly endless delays in minor projects such as Meadows-canal, or the impact of poor decisions such as Picardy Place but I'm finding it hard to be optimistic about this. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-288329 Fri, 03 Aug 2018 20:19:14 +0000 HankChief 288329@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wow. This is very good. </p> <p>I accept we are still at the 'words' stage and we'd all like to be at the 'digging' stage, but as a start this is excellent.</p> <p>And if they can keep some form of coalition going for the remaining 4 years of the this administration we have every chance of seeing this come to fruition in some shape or other. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-288327 Fri, 03 Aug 2018 19:15:01 +0000 Morningsider 288327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stand down everyone:</p> <p>"Some proposals would need changes in legislation which would need to be explored in more detail. A wider, more detailed understanding of the use of the city centre network will require extensive traffic modelling to understand the implications of different scenarios."</p> <p>Given that the most recent output from the marvellous black box that is "traffic modelling" is the Picardy Place gyratory, I'm not holding my breath. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908&page=2#post-288326 Fri, 03 Aug 2018 19:02:19 +0000 Stickman 288326@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's the full report:</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/58095/item_78_-_edinburgh_connecting_our_city_transforming_our_places_-_public_engagement_on_city_mobility_plan_low_emission_zones_and_city_centre_transformation" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/58095/item_78_-_edinburgh_connecting_our_city_transforming_our_places_-_public_engagement_on_city_mobility_plan_low_emission_zones_and_city_centre_transformation</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-288325 Fri, 03 Aug 2018 18:56:30 +0000 Stickman 288325@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2018/08/council-taking-a-transformational-approach-to-the-city-centre-public-consultation-to-open-next-month" rel="nofollow">https://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2018/08/council-taking-a-transformational-approach-to-the-city-centre-public-consultation-to-open-next-month</a></p> <p>Should we get our hopes up?</p> <p>"EXCERPT FROM THE REPORT </p> <p>“A transformational approach would involve a radical rethink of how the citymoves and operates.The City Centre would become a largely traffic free zone with controls in place to allow for essential traffic and with pedestrian priorityin the city, town, and local centres.</p> <p>You would be able to go to, but not through the city centre. A series of hubs could be developed where buses would drop off and other forms of less impactful transport would take over.</p> <p>Pavements would be significantly widened and public spaces improved. Keystreets would be pedestrianised.</p> <p>There would be strategic walking routes and segregated cycle routes across thecity with a citywide way nding network to guide pedestrians around the city.</p> <p>Public transport could be fully integrated with smart contactless payment for use across all public transport services. New park and ride interchanges could be provided at key points around the city with a series of new bus priority corridors linked to them.</p> <p>Urban &amp; regional consolidation centres would be created for freight rationalisation, and green onward travel with last mile delivery hubs served by electric cargo bikes or electric vans.” </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-285750 Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:58:33 +0000 Rosie 285750@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver Totes agree about trams. Obvious way to travel out to Corstorphine, Portobello, Newhaven, Granton etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-285749 Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:35:20 +0000 crowriver 285749@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Glasgow has more space full stop. Acres and acres of empty land, crumbling empty buildings. Also lots of very wide roads make it pretty easy to just add in a kerb and some bollards and hey presto a segregated cycleway. Very little on-street parking in city centre. Also a large intact suburban heavy rail network which is well used. </p> <p>Edinburgh much more compact and densely populated in the centre. Suburban rail network mostly ripped up in the 1960s or earlier. A lot of existing on-street parking in central areas which is tricky to get rid of in face of objections to TROs. Edinburgh should never have ripped up its trams in the 1950s. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-285712 Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:05:29 +0000 Rosie 285712@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Report on the meeting. The most interesting bit to me was the comparison between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Glasgow - far more space given to roads; less green space; bus service falling; trains good but crowded; more poverty. David Begg saw this as having potential in its own way. He's an excellent speaker.</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/2018/06/spokesmtg-city-centre-transformation/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/2018/06/spokesmtg-city-centre-transformation/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284933 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 18:39:09 +0000 Harts Cyclery 284933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>PS - pretty much agree with all of that! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284924 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:07:37 +0000 jdanielp 284924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@PS there was mention at that meeting that contactless bus payments are 'coming soon'. I can't remember who said that though. Travel transfers unfortunately were not mentioned.</p> <p>Daisy's slides included various before and after pictures of European cities which have gone from car domination to shared use and pedestrianisation; Brussels, in particular, was then referred back to by others later on. Prof. David Begg mentioned that tree-lined pedestrian-oriented streets will be coming to Glasgow in the not too distant future... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284921 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:01:52 +0000 toomanybikes 284921@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think Adam Mcvey said they expect their cycling capital budget to be up to £35 millon over the course of the current council </p> <p>I'm just thinking now that SG cycling funding is £80 million a year, and £40 million last year, then given the council contains approx 10% of Scotland's population, we should really be expecting £36 million over the course of the council just from SG funding.</p> <p>I suppose some % of that £80 million will be "invested" in non infrastructure projects, but Edinburgh should surely get more than it's population % due to the higher cycling potential and benefits than lower density areas of the country. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284919 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 16:54:49 +0000 PS 284919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, and:</p> <p>Sell off a bunch of Council vans and replace them with cargo bikes (interest-free loans available). Lead from the front. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284916 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 16:45:30 +0000 PS 284916@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Harts Some ideas for the city centre, regurgitating much of what I have previously said in various council consultations:</p> <p>Difficult to say much on the city centre beyond "pedestrianise it" (whilst including segregated cycle paths to promote cross town active). I'd include at the very least George Street, St Andrews Square and Charlotte Square in that, whilst recognising that we'd probably need to keep some vehicular access on Hanover St, and St David St, and N&amp;S Charlotte St. Obviously, pedestrianise the Royal Mile, Chambers St, Cockburn St, Victoria St too. Remove parking. Access for delivery by motor vehicle limited to pre-10am (bollard-enforced) and delivery vehicle limited in size. No limitations for cargo bike delivery, trollies (possibly electric, if that would help) etc. Test this (subsidized by Council) in Leith Walk while they put the new tram line in.</p> <p>Some sort of ban on large vehicles in the city centre (no way should HGVs be going along Queen St, for instance). Will the LEZ see to that?</p> <p>There are obviously loads of examples of other cities in Europe doing pedestrianisation well, so pick a style and go with it. There'll be pointers to how you deal with open spaces in windy conditions too. Make Edinburgh's prominent buildings (eg, Assembly Rooms, Museums) centre pieces in the urban landscape. Utility access in the middle of these spaces so people aren't tripping over power cables on the pavement all the time.</p> <p>Changes to Lothian Buses ticketing to allow a)contactless payment, b) transfers to aid bus- and tram-surfing. This will make interchanging between buses and trams easier and reduce the number of routes that need to go along the busiest streets.</p> <p>It was frustrating to hear your point about the need for segregated facilities on arterial routes knocked back by Adam due to lack of budget. Routes across the city centre won't be that helpful if only the confident cyclist can get there. Placing a kerb 1.5m out from the pavement down the length of Comiston Road/Buckstone Terrace can't be that expensive, can it?[I've rehearsed this before, but the inside lane is just used by parked cars, leaving 1m+ of road on the outside of the cars unused, so no one loses if you move the cars out 2m and stick the bike lane on the inside]. If there are easy wins like that, "JFDI" as the man said. </p> <p>And if the Council's spent the money on the street design guidance, how about it applies it every time it makes a significant investment (resurfacing) in a street? Too many good reports (hello, Jan Gehl!) gathering dust on Council shelves because "balance". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284906 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 15:47:50 +0000 Harts Cyclery 284906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bit of a risk of thread drift to AVs. Does anyone have any thoughts on what Daisy and Adam McVey said? Daisy said she wants help with ideas for the city centre. Thought folk would be keen to put some forward! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284883 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:52:44 +0000 Morningsider 284883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Top legal bods are looking into the implications of AVs:</p> <p><a href="https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/automated-vehicles/" rel="nofollow">https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/automated-vehicles/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18908#post-284882 Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:42:11 +0000 paulmilne 284882@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I look forward to the first AV account on CCE. </p>