http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: The mother of all consultations en Thu, 18 Jun 2026 07:35:00 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127&page=2#post-296157 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 12:07:06 +0000 Stickman 296157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One senior Edinburgh Tory councillor’s leaflet from the last election said:</p> <p>“Find Edinburgh solutions to the challenges the city faces rather than doing it like other places - Edinburgh is unique and our solutions should be too!”</p> <p>She now frequently posts pictures from her trips to the continent with comments along the lines of “why can’t we do this here”, for example about street cleaning methods etc. Her most recent one was saying that an example of a Manchester street design needed some “Continental elan”. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127&page=2#post-296154 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:57:29 +0000 crowriver 296154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I don't think Edinburgh is different from elsewhere"</p> <p>I agree. Or at least not <em>that</em> different. However many folk seem to think it is different.</p> <p>I can only put this down to exceptionalism, and I don't believe education or being articulate has very much to do with it either. Indeed it's the epitome of an unthinking attitude or disposition.</p> <p>See also: the immigrant vs expat dichotomy; 'We should have kept our Empire'; 'We don't need a written constitution, Parliament is sovereign'; 'Leaving the EU will allow Global Britain to flourish'; etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127&page=2#post-296144 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:48:09 +0000 I were right about that saddle 296144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>How about the "Grand-Place Paradox"?</em></p> <p>Excellent and apposite. Edinburgh's city fathers and muthas are clearly terrified of having an area of the city where the citizens can assemble. </p> <p>Car-snarled streets fine, areas of grass fine but paved squares <em>verboten</em>. Picardy place the paradigm - they were clearly terrified that a human-friendly site might result and created the Island of the Dead as a last minute defence. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127&page=2#post-296140 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 08:19:18 +0000 gembo 296140@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't think Edinburgh is different from elsewhere apart from the lack of a visionary cyclist figurehead. </p> <p>Red Ken, who was pro cycling, lost his mayoral robes by imposing the congestion charge. So Edinburgh politicians let the people speak. Thus losing the visionary David Begg. Londoners would have voted against congestion charge if given the chance.</p> <p>Athens has notorious stories of people having two number plates/cars to avoid driving ban. Seattle had surge in blow up doll sales when single occupant vehicle charge was brought in.</p> <p>I do see the on holiday behaviour not sticking on return to quotidian.</p> <p>I do see Edinburgh as having a highly educated and articulate population. With this comes a heightened sense of entitlement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127&page=2#post-296138 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:33:18 +0000 unhurt 296138@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>the exceptionalism of national / local identities. See also: "Edinburgh is unique / different / special'. </em></p> <p>Indeed. The things that work in other historic capitals just CAN'T work here, for REASONS.</p> <p>@morningsider <em>the "Grand-Place Paradox"</em> does have a nice ring to it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127&page=2#post-296136 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:12:20 +0000 crowriver 296136@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Mundane answer is Hypocrisy"</p> <p>It's not quite that simple though, is it?</p> <p>It's more to do with mental silos that people apparently construct for themselves:</p> <p>Silo 1 - On holiday, leisure, etc. in foreign country - enjoy living <em>differently</em> to back home.</p> <p>Silo 2 - Commuting, work, shopping, etc. in home country - <em>habitual</em> behaviours and 'just doing what what everyone else is doing / what's practical / what works for my lifestyle'.</p> <p>It's related to the exceptionalism of national / local identities. See also: "Edinburgh is unique / different / special'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296133 Tue, 20 Nov 2018 23:02:36 +0000 gembo 296133@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Mundane answer is Hypocrisy </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296128 Tue, 20 Nov 2018 22:01:24 +0000 wingpig 296128@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's an aspect of the people-as-scenery theory. Each only-proper-real-actual-person has the right to do as they wish; indeed, as the only real being they are naturally the most important. All the supporting cast of their world should be more accommodating of the whims of their principal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296123 Tue, 20 Nov 2018 20:09:52 +0000 Arellcat 296123@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider, I like that. We might also have the "Citillogical Dichotomy" for our conscious planning for walking and cycling while unconsciously planning and building for motoring.</p> <p>Apropros of that, <a href="http://zeta.math.utsa.edu/~yxk833/connecting.html">this paper on the fractal nature of cities</a> is quite interesting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296122 Tue, 20 Nov 2018 20:00:09 +0000 crowriver 296122@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo, there's already a name for it surely? It's called "It'll never happen here!"<br /> In use for at least a century? See also: British exceptionalism. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296121 Tue, 20 Nov 2018 19:35:39 +0000 Morningsider 296121@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>How about the "Grand-Place Paradox"? Hopefully captures British people's love of visiting cities with grand pedestrianised squares and old towns, but their dismay at any suggestion of such arrangements for their own cities or towns. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296118 Tue, 20 Nov 2018 17:51:25 +0000 Snowy 296118@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It really is a Thing and should certainly have a name. I've run into this countless times. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296066 Mon, 19 Nov 2018 20:25:41 +0000 gembo 296066@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@unhurt that phenomenon needs a new name - something about how the steps that need to be taken by collective humanity whilst acknowledged by the individual, nevertheless do not apply to the individual in question. But pithier. Probably named already or we could call in Unhurt Gembo Syndrome </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-296056 Mon, 19 Nov 2018 15:22:20 +0000 unhurt 296056@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Today in cognitive dissonance: a colleague has just returned from a work trip to another European capital. While there she managed to squeeze in some walking about the city centre, sightseeing &amp; just decompressing. It was lovely, she said, <em>so</em> much nicer than walking in Edinburgh with all the car exhaust fumes and traffic. </p> <p>Well, I said, isn't that what we want to see happening in Edinburgh too? Restrictions on private cars in the centre of town?</p> <p>What? No!, she says. She NEEDS to drive into / through the centre of town. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295549 Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:26:07 +0000 wingpig 295549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The consultation-gathering department seems OK, as have been the councilpeople at consultations (whereas some of the external consultancy staff have come across a bit like they don't think a modern and vibrant city should have all these scruffy meatbags scurrying around it), but it's the traffic-modelling department which seems to be behind a lot of the BUT OTHERWISE BECAUSE SO NO whenever a chance to not build a multi-lane gyratory appears. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295548 Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:20:42 +0000 neddie 295548@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IWRATS, why are you mad about the council officers for the Transformation? From what I can see it looks OK.</p> <p>It's the George St plans that are infuriatingly weak... (Why the two projects are not linked / tied together, I do not know... TIE) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295546 Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:13:21 +0000 wingpig 295546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"I'm imagining the council officers spraying themselves with diesel and roaring 'BROOM BROOM' as they open up the consultation dashboard."</em></blockquote></p> <p>To be filed alongside kaputnik's <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10637#post-116796">mental vignette of Keith Brown</a>:</p> <p><em>"When I am very exasperated and angry with the man, I usually imagine him as a bit of a simpleton, who whiles away his days playing with toy cars in his ministerial office, making broom-broom noises, occassionally taking a crayon to a map of Scotland and drawing a new route, stirring only when an aide comes in with a cheque for him to sign. Then the anger fades away into something more like frustrated pity."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295529 Mon, 12 Nov 2018 08:49:22 +0000 I were right about that saddle 295529@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't know why but I'm imagining the council officers spraying themselves with diesel and roaring 'BROOM BROOM' as they open up the consultation dashboard.*</p> <p>*A massive polychrome spreadsheet e-mailed from a dude in IT? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295526 Mon, 12 Nov 2018 00:18:14 +0000 unhurt 295526@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All in a good cause. Though perhaps with more P. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295523 Sun, 11 Nov 2018 23:21:08 +0000 chdot 295523@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“pressed into resonding the morn”</p> <p>Sounds painful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295522 Sun, 11 Nov 2018 23:08:24 +0000 unhurt 295522@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks, that is the answer I was hoping for. Some of my colleagues shall be pressed into resonding the morn! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295519 Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:58:02 +0000 chdot 295519@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tomorrow </p> <p>Midnight (usually) or end of office day (sometimes). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-295517 Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:51:21 +0000 unhurt 295517@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stupid Q as was pestering people to respond yesterday, but does "closes on the 12th" mean it closes at 00:00 tonight (Sunday 11th) or 24 hours hence? Generally if someone says something ends on [date] I interpret that as the last day the thing is active, but... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-294065 Wed, 24 Oct 2018 10:06:01 +0000 neddie 294065@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some info from gembo, copied over from the other thread:</p> <p><em>picked up this informative brochure at work.</p> <p>good stats, three models (business as usual, strategic approach, transformatinal approach) Fifteen laudable aims, lots of lovely photos of Edinburgh - page 16 great shot on the yatrds of segregated infra we have outside Tills Bookshop, pg 21 leith links allotment path lovely if empty</p> <p>63500 fifers driving cars into Edinburgh every day (ok, also west lothian, east lothian etc), pg 27 Sustrans phot at Russell Road cargo bikes, looks likle The Mighty Hankchief's jacket</p> <p>learning frok Oslo, Barcelona, Copenhagen</p> <p>but the futurists have to go to Helnsinki, Copenhagen and somewhere else - Dunkirk?</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-294063 Wed, 24 Oct 2018 10:03:07 +0000 neddie 294063@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Original thread...</p> <p>Link to the consultation:</p> <p><a href="https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/connecting-our-city-transforming-our-places/" rel="nofollow">https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/connecting-our-city-transforming-our-places/</a></p> <p><strong>Closes 12th Nov 2018</strong></p> <p>SPOKES response here: </p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/1810-Spokes-response-CET-consultn-final.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/1810-Spokes-response-CET-consultn-final.pdf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-291775 Thu, 20 Sep 2018 18:49:20 +0000 crowriver 291775@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@acsimpson, indeed it would! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-291765 Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:57:52 +0000 acsimpson 291765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"1) Make walking and cycling to school the norm. A network of safe, segregated paths from each school to its catchment area, taking priority whenever and wherever it crosses the motor vehicle network."</em></p> <p>Are you condoning toucan crossings at the boundaries between catchment areas? With the city being covered by just 3 catchments (RC secondary) I suppose that would be an acceptable arrangement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-291655 Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:34:02 +0000 I were right about that saddle 291655@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>19 Do you have any other ideas, big or small, about how Edinburgh can support its economy, connect its communities and transform its streets and public spaces?<br /> Ideas:</p> <p>1) Make walking and cycling to school the norm. A network of safe, segregated paths from each school to its catchment area, taking priority whenever and wherever it crosses the motor vehicle network.</p> <p>2) Rip out the Picardy Place gyratory.</em></p> <p>Can't help myself sometimes. Bitter. Grievance. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-291613 Wed, 19 Sep 2018 12:32:36 +0000 crowriver 291613@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, recursive and self-referential. Like postmodern literature...</p> <p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_on_a_winter%27s_night_a_traveler" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_on_a_winter%27s_night_a_traveler</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19127#post-291552 Tue, 18 Sep 2018 21:57:07 +0000 gembo 291552@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Did complete. Was not too bad. Did point out consultations not acted on.</p> <p>Survey at end about experience of doing the survey a little recursive </p>