http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: OT: Shetland out the box en Wed, 13 May 2026 02:10:32 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167&page=2#post-292846 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 08:18:39 +0000 chdot 292846@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This fits with the title of this thread. </p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/05/scottish-gps-nhs-begin-prescribing-rambling-birdwatching" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/05/scottish-gps-nhs-begin-prescribing-rambling-birdwatching</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167&page=2#post-292843 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 08:07:24 +0000 I were right about that saddle 292843@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I do have a certain sympathy with these poor fruitcakes. They thought they'd always be in government and now they're the fifth party and liberal ideas are, alas, dying and they're reduced to putting pencils up their nose to get attention. Can't be easy.</p> <p>I wonder if Denmark will follow suit and insist that Greenland, the Faroes and Denmark be shown in their correct places and therefore Shetland also? Would Tavish get all steamed up about the implied territorial claim? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167&page=2#post-292840 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:41:51 +0000 chrisfl 292840@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>another write up of why cartographers use insert boxes (and when the don't) <a href="http://cartonerd.blogspot.com/2018/03/in-praise-of-insets.html?spref=tw">http://cartonerd.blogspot.com/2018/03/in-praise-of-insets.html?spref=tw</a></p> <p>It seems that Scottish Liberal Democrats are increasingly the party of loons. Although all MSP's should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for letting crud regulations like this through. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167&page=2#post-292824 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:44:35 +0000 sallyhinch 292824@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Confession time: until I went there, I had no idea how close Orkney was to the rest of Scotland, because I'd always seen it in a box next to Shetland. </p> <p>(As a side note, until I moved up here, I hadn't really clocked how common the phenomenon of the 'headless map' was where some newspaper story is headlined "Y is the Xest place in Britain" while the map alongside it reveals that Y is in fact just the Xest place in England or at a pinch England and Wales).</p> <p>Given the fact that we largely look at documents online these days, there's not really any excuse for not making all maps included in electronic format documents either scrollable and zoomable, or linked to something scrollable and zoomable, and then Shetland and Orkney can be where they like </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292821 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:23:24 +0000 Frenchy 292821@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@IWRATS - Aye, Rockall is indeed part of Scotland: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Rockall_Act_1972" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Rockall_Act_1972</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292817 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 20:40:00 +0000 cb 292817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"so that's where the Shetlands are"</em></p> <p>Not sure if it's the same with Shetland but I seem to recall that Orcadians hate having their home referred to as "The Orkneys". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292807 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:27:06 +0000 Blueth 292807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Reminds me of the visit we once got from our Birmingham - based manager who landed at Edinburgh then listed the sites she wanted to visit, including Lossiemouth. </p> <p>When asked if she had arranged accommodation the answer was in the negative: she was booked on the 4pm flight back to Brum. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292806 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:25:06 +0000 chdot 292806@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/1047814704188575744" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/1047814704188575744</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292805 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:16:51 +0000 I were right about that saddle 292805@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some projections overstate the area of northern regions of course. Could be Shetland's gaining from that.</p> <p>I can certainly see why government ministers might want a map big enough to have Shetland in the right place when they're planning national services. Not reduced scale, just enlarged to have the islands in the right place. Is Rockall part of Scotland? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292802 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:10:48 +0000 steveo 292802@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>but about mapping used as one of the tools while developing policy or projects</em></p> <p>Have you got something in mind? </p> <p>I can not envision any situation beyond a sort of general knowledge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292795 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:52:12 +0000 unhurt 292795@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The detail that you can still box her up if you explain why allows for that though - presumably depends on purpose of map / context of use. It's not about random members of the public - central belt or island - appreciating issues in the other location, I think, but about mapping used as one of the tools while developing policy or projects. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292791 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:30:53 +0000 steveo 292791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>, I should note that I've encountered quite a large number of people resident in Scotland who have literally no idea where [Insert Place Name Here]</em></p> <p>The exact location of a place doesn't stop people relating to the problems a place has. I doubt many Islanders appreciate the problems of "inner city residents" beyond what the see on Tagart or Rebus. Blaming ignorance on a map <em>is </em>a bit silly and a total waste of money and whilst we may now all appreciate that Shetland is a "long way away" many isolated rural or small ex-mining villages will literally drop of the map and how will that subtly inform thinking? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292790 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:30:35 +0000 stiltskin 292790@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> should note that I've encountered quite a large number of people resident in Scotland who have literally no idea where Shetland is (or indeed where Orkney is, or that they're not the same place).</em><br /> I'm not sure that this law will change anything.Under what circumstances are those sorts of people likely to look at the map &amp; say to themselves "Oh, so that's where the Shetlands are!" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292787 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:10:06 +0000 unhurt 292787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>You know thats probably how most people from the South East see the rest of the UK and their representatives.</em></p> <p>Indeed. Seem to recall people being - I thought justifiably - narked when BBC weather tilted the map in favour of southern climes... </p> <p>Anyway, buried behind North Isles grumpiness is the suggestion that sometimes boxing "created a false impression of the challenges they face on account of their remote location." - and if this seems silly to you, I should note that I've encountered quite a large number of people resident in Scotland who have literally no idea where Shetland is (or indeed where Orkney is, or that they're not the same place). There are probably times when a (relatively - obviously all maps are fictions of a sort) accurate map might subtly inform thinking. Plus people, on the whole, do care quite a lot about how their place is depicted... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292786 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:59:11 +0000 steveo 292786@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>No. It's about people with a chip a on their shoulder &amp; certain politicians with too much time on their hands...</em></p> <p>You know thats probably how most people from the South East see the rest of the UK and their representatives. On the other hand it is a silly waste of time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292783 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:28:09 +0000 neddie 292783@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Does anyone use paper maps anymore?</p> <p>&lt;neddie runs away&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292782 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:11:51 +0000 stiltskin 292782@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No. It's about people with a chip a on their shoulder &amp; certain politicians with too much time on their hands... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292780 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:03:43 +0000 dougal 292780@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is the preferred alternative a shrunken map? Is that really what this is about - a less valuable map? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292779 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:30:25 +0000 cb 292779@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"How about alternate years mainland Scotland goes in the box"</em></p> <p>That does seem like a loophole, effectively put Shetland outside the box rather than inside.</p> <p>What about the insistence of UK atlases to start at Land's End and work their way, eventually to Shetland, by which time the mapping scale has been cruely dropped down such that it can be squeezed onto one page?</p> <p>The OS Landranger series starts at the top and works down, but for some reason they went the other way when they introduced the Explorer series. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292776 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:11:20 +0000 stiltskin 292776@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To be honest, this story brings out a little bit of Tory in me I didn’t know existed :-( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292775 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:08:30 +0000 I were right about that saddle 292775@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot</p> <p>No the correct answer is 'Two fluid ounces now begorrah'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292774 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:59:14 +0000 chdot 292774@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Pointless? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292773 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:57:37 +0000 I were right about that saddle 292773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Frenchy</p> <p>I was going for southernmost road in the United Kingdom of GB&amp;NI. We'd need you or @algo or someone to explain how the South Pole which is a dimensionless point (or is it a line?) can be divided between the eight territorial claims which there converge. What's an eighth of a point? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292772 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:35:50 +0000 gembo 292772@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>or the Father Ted approach?</p> <p>Dougal - this is very small and that is far far away?</p> <p>Obviously shrink the rest of scotland and ORkney but keep shtland actual size</p> <p>Good that parliamentary time spent on this as I had forgotten how remote Shetland is. Also Fair Isle is virtually in Norway, well ok The Faroes (who beat us at fitba) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292771 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:32:31 +0000 Frenchy 292771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>St Warna's Well to Skaw</em></p> <p>South Pole to Skaw, surely? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292768 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:19:30 +0000 I were right about that saddle 292768@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We should really ban Lands End to John O'Groats events if we're serious about this.</p> <p>St Warna's Well to Skaw should be compulsory for national unity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292766 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:59:40 +0000 steveo 292766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>maybe putting the central belt in a box of its own instead is the right compromise</em></p> <p>Can you imagine the outcry if the central belt were zoomed in and given apparent prominence over the rest of the country! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292765 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:50:00 +0000 jonty 292765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://earthobs.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/is-shetland-a-cartographic-compromise-too-far/" rel="nofollow">https://earthobs.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/is-shetland-a-cartographic-compromise-too-far/</a></p> <p>I was convinced this was probably not a brilliant idea by this article. However, as the article suggests, maybe putting the central belt in a box of its own instead is the right compromise if we think a full map is important to emphasise the remoteness? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292764 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:29:58 +0000 unhurt 292764@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Iwrats suspect so. Also; Aileen McHarg: "Thank you @ScotParl for providing a new example for teaching literal versus purposive statutory interpretation: would a version of this image with the box around the mainland be in breach of the legislation?" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19167#post-292763 Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:29:03 +0000 I were right about that saddle 292763@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I mean the USA and Hawaii. France with both St Pierre and Miquelon and Nouvelle-Calédonie. You'd need an actual 3D globe to show them in the right place.</p> <p>How about alternate years mainland Scotland goes in the box and Shetland takes centre stage? </p>