http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Bottom of Lothian Road question en Tue, 19 May 2026 18:43:14 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295025 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 17:07:12 +0000 Arellcat 295025@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@unhurt, about halfway down there used to be the rather idyllic Glen of Carefree Biking, but that was lost to modernity in the 1950s. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295015 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 14:43:31 +0000 unhurt 295015@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie they flow downhill from the watershed of the Hard Pressed Motorist Range, through the foothills of Law Abiding Taxpayer. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295014 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 14:39:55 +0000 unhurt 295014@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@steveo the CCE motto should be <em>Mors sive Digressio</em>? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295013 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 14:35:30 +0000 neddie 295013@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>the concept of a single source is meaningless</em></p> <p>Where is the source of the traffic ending up at the bottom of Lothian Rd? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295012 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 14:28:53 +0000 steveo 295012@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This thread (and most others) would drive the moderators of every other forum I've ever been a member completely nuts! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295009 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 14:07:58 +0000 I were right about that saddle 295009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>the concept of a single source is meaningless</em></p> <p>It's clearly emotionally important. To some people. Though the basin concept is very satisfying.</p> <p><em>Where were you seven years ago, @IWRATS?</em></p> <p>Must have had more mundane matters on my mind. What was I even <em>thinking</em>? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295007 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:59:59 +0000 ih 295007@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The discussion on sources of rivers convinces me that the concept of a single source is meaningless. The source of any river or burn, at any point, is the whole watershed from the point of interest. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-295000 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:24:06 +0000 Frenchy 295000@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>For the record, we think that, as it is the most dominant tributary and also the longest, the answer is the Allt Coire Laoigh and, <strong>as no-one else seems too concerned</strong>, we are going to claim credit for redefining the true source of the River Tay.</em></p> <p>Where were you seven years ago, @IWRATS? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294998 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:20:20 +0000 cb 294998@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>...but <a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-12243508">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-12243508</a></p> <p>Ben Lui it is. With money to be found. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294997 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:19:55 +0000 I were right about that saddle 294997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah but Ben Lawers isn't on the watershed and I think maybe the source should be? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294996 Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:17:20 +0000 cb 294996@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Highest mapped water on Ben Lawers is 1110m against 1030m for Ben Lui. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294964 Sun, 04 Nov 2018 20:06:16 +0000 davecykl 294964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A couple of thoughts about the Rutland Street junction:</p> <p>How about "advance traffic lights" on Lothian Road northbound, at the end of the bus lane (similar to what used to exist at the end of the westbound bus lane at Maybury), synchronised with the lights at the main Princes St junction but giving buses/bikes/taxis a 10 second head start over the general traffic lanes? </p> <p>This would encourage taxis for the Caledonian Hotel to be in the correct lane for the junction, rather than swoop around, and would also give bikes and buses a chance to cross lanes more safely before reaching Princes St (the fact that cars, etc, have to cross paths over bikes and buses at the Lothian Road / South Charlotte St pair of junctions is particularly awkward, and not at all friendly for less assertive cyclists).</p> <p>Alternatively, perhaps Rutland St could be made "exit-only" (apart from contra-flow cycling, <strong>of course</strong>), with inbound access for taxis, deliveries, etc (are there (m)any other "legitimate" motor vehicle uses for the street?) via the West Approach Road and Canning Street (if that would need alternating single file traffic lights (for motor vehicles) on the narrow section, perhaps arguably so much the better). </p> <p>This would remove any conflicting movements at the junction, with exiting vehicles required to STOP before entering Lothian Road and only permitted to turn left to exit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294926 Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:04:56 +0000 acsimpson 294926@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think a source has to involve running water rather than just a rock of which water flows. So a spring or bog with a (normally) ever present flow which ends in the river.</p> <p>Perhaps it should be the point furthest from the mouth but that would raise interesting questions such as half the Mississippi not being between it's source and it's mouth. Although that in itself is perhaps an error with the Missouri should be the real river. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294920 Sat, 03 Nov 2018 14:56:00 +0000 gembo 294920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice name for source of the Clyde is Watermeetings </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294911 Sat, 03 Nov 2018 12:40:07 +0000 I were right about that saddle 294911@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm liking Ben Lui as the source of the Tay. Then the Cononish and Fillan and Dochart become that river.</p> <p>I'd do a pamphlet but I don't want to pass for a Flat Earther. True Sourcer movement. Perhaps the source is the highest point on the watershed rather than the highest point in the basin? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294907 Sat, 03 Nov 2018 12:15:17 +0000 unhurt 294907@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Have you considered writing a tract? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294906 Sat, 03 Nov 2018 12:13:38 +0000 I were right about that saddle 294906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah yes but what is the 'source' of a river?</p> <p>The 'source' of the Tay is Loch Tay but the Dochart is clearly the Tay by any other name.</p> <p>The 'source' of the Spey is Loch Spey and yet Loch A'an is bigger, higher and has greater outflow.</p> <p>I propose that the source of a river is simply the highest point in its catchment. So the source of the Spey and the Dee is the summit of Ban Macdui and the source of the Tay is Ben Lawers but that knackers my Dochart = Tay thesis. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294903 Sat, 03 Nov 2018 11:42:27 +0000 acsimpson 294903@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah yes, checking again on the council atlas ( <a href="https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9dfa229ba4004f7ca642ed3bd9702094">https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9dfa229ba4004f7ca642ed3bd9702094</a>) it appears I was wrong and that we don't have the entire river. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294884 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:44:29 +0000 gembo 294884@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@acsimpson, the source of the water of leith? Is that the river you mean? That is beyond HArperrig Reservoir. We do have it but west Lothian / south Lanarkshire may also wish to claim it? The source of The Clyde is not too far away. Ok not he source of the Clyde, that is a very windy river but flows north east from the lowther hills of highest Tarmac fame and almost reaches The apple pie bakery of carnwath </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240&page=2#post-294877 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:41:13 +0000 acsimpson 294877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No just one but <u>two</u> rivers.</p> <p>Unusually we have the source, mouth and everything in between for one of them. Can anyone name another city able to claim such a thing about their rivers? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294867 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 15:42:29 +0000 wingpig 294867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Having a navigable river up the middle's not all it's cracked up to be. Ask York. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294865 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 15:33:28 +0000 unhurt 294865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wingpig I lade this claim to my German visitor but apparently when you live five minutes cycle from the Rhine the Water of Leith doesn't cut it. She called it "cute". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294864 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 15:15:23 +0000 wingpig 294864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We have so got a river. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294863 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:59:20 +0000 miak 294863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wow had no idea that my use of the term 'north' would have such an impact. </p> <p>Thanks for the Lothian Road filtering comments</p> <p>Re orientation ...may i suggest to any of you that are confused that you come for a wee come and try at a local orienteering club eg ESOC.org of which there are several in and around edinburgh. Loads of events all winter... you will quickly learn how to use a mao and compass and there are so many great events in and around Edinburgh that gets you into parks, hills, woodlands and beaches, you may not have been to... ..It also helps you navigate in cities ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294833 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 12:02:44 +0000 sallyhinch 294833@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think because most cities evolve around rivers, we expect, subconsciously or not that down will tend to lead to the centre and up out and away. Edinburgh confuses things by having no river and big hill in the middle. Add in the whole water to the north thing and hills to the south and it's no surprise that it's difficult to navigate by our usual cues. (We'll draw a veil over streets that intersect with other streets, but 20 feet above them). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294818 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 11:41:28 +0000 acsimpson 294818@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@steveo (and Hankchief) I'm also Edinburgh born a bred but still think of the hills as being at the top of Edinburgh and have to think harder than elsewhere to remember which way is North. I suspect it's because I didn't learn my way around the city using maps.</p> <p>In other cities where I have used maps as my primary source of navigation I don't have the same issue.</p> <p>Generally if I have visited a city a little I can find my way around it, but like others grid cities with lots of high buildings (Eg Glasgow) are harder. I assume this is a mixture of no landmarks and lack of sky. I found New York easier as it has plenty variation (eg Broadway and parks).</p> <p>Cities such as London or Paris where I have travelled a lot underground leave me with pockets of knowledge but no idea how they join together. It wasn't until I walked from Westminster to Trafalgar square that I realised how close they are. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294807 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 10:17:30 +0000 cb 294807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For exiting underground stations the sun is useful. Also knowing the approximate orientation of the track you arrived on and keeping track of left/right turns on your way up to the surface.</p> <p>But pretty much having a smart phone has made any other skills redundant. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294803 Fri, 02 Nov 2018 09:05:29 +0000 dk1 294803@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@hankchief had the same issue when I moved here from Dundee. Taken a while to get used to it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294772 Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:09:27 +0000 minus six 294772@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Exhibit A: Oktogon in Budapest</em></p> <p>aye, oktogon / andrassy is quite a challenge in the dark for a first time visitor </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19240#post-294768 Thu, 01 Nov 2018 18:31:18 +0000 unhurt 294768@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also, for those interested in humans orienting themselves in space while thinking or speaking in langauges - this is a v nice article that gets into the Guugu Yimithirr (and other languages that use cardinal directions instead of left/right/in front/behind) language / experience of the universe thing (down below the quick intro to now-discredited Sapir-Whorf stuff and the gender stuff).</p> <p><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html</a></p> <p>"The convention of communicating with geographic coordinates compels speakers from the youngest age to pay attention to the clues from the physical environment (the position of the sun, wind and so on) every second of their lives, and to develop an accurate memory of their own changing orientations at any given moment. So everyday communication in a geographic language provides the most intense imaginable drilling in geographic orientation (it has been estimated that as much as 1 word in 10 in a normal Guugu Yimithirr conversation is “north,” “south,” “west” or “east,” often accompanied by precise hand gestures). This habit of constant awareness to the geographic direction is inculcated almost from infancy: studies have shown that children in such societies start using geographic directions as early as age 2 and fully master the system by 7 or 8. With such an early and intense drilling, the habit soon becomes second nature, effortless and unconscious. When Guugu Yimithirr speakers were asked how they knew where north is, they couldn’t explain it any more than you can explain how you know where “behind” is." </p>