http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: ‘PASS WIDE AND SLOW Stop Preventing Horses Using Government Funded Off-Rd Tracks en Sun, 31 May 2026 13:26:36 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-298511 Mon, 31 Dec 2018 18:38:42 +0000 I were right about that saddle 298511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@bill</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19114">There's a whole thread for this kind of chat.</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-298510 Mon, 31 Dec 2018 18:33:57 +0000 bill 298510@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Today for the first time I saw a horse on the canal towpath. It was around Wester Hailes (not far from the police station). The girl on the horse was rather considerate and moved the horse on the grassy bit for me to pass. Then I wondered whether I would see any poops. I didn't have to wait long for it. </p> <p><a href="https://flic.kr/p/2dQjhZj"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4861/46491734732_a927b8ff15.jpg"></a><a href="https://flic.kr/p/2dQjhZj">Poopy_poop</a> by <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147968794@N07/">Bill Harriman</a>, on Flickr </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-297011 Wed, 05 Dec 2018 10:39:01 +0000 neddie 297011@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe we should create a "counter"* petition, along the lines of the need to restrict motor traffic on rural roads and a change in the law to promote safe passing?</p> <p>*Not really "counter", as we are on the same side ultimately. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-297009 Wed, 05 Dec 2018 10:34:28 +0000 neddie 297009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When passing a horse and I'm driving, I always slow to the same pace as the horse, waiting behind a good distance. I then wait until the rider signals me to pass and then only pass if I feel it is safe for all parties.</p> <p>I try to keep any engine noise to a minimum, by being as light as possible on the throttle.</p> <p>Why can't this be the law? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-297006 Wed, 05 Dec 2018 10:20:01 +0000 Ed1 297006@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I do find it hard to have much sympathy here - horse riders are generally a very well-off bunch (yes, I know - not all of them), they are not some oppressed minority"</p> <p>Well let’s hope being a repressed minority is not a requirement for sympathies with a lack of off the road infra and having to use the more risky road.<br /> If it is does not bode so well for cyclists either</p> <p>I recall reading about the cycle superhighways in London “largely white, male and middle class biking community” <a href="https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/campaigners-call-for-more-infrastructure-after-capitals-cycling-chief-claims-london-cyclists-are-too-a3850256.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/campaigners-call-for-more-infrastructure-after-capitals-cycling-chief-claims-london-cyclists-are-too-a3850256.html</a>.<br /> “I find it hard to reconcile horse riders' stated desires for 'Oi, cyclists (and other vehicles), pass us with absolute maximum separation/slowness/notice' and 'Oi, cyclists, let us on that narrow sliver of cycle path'.”</p> <p>I suppose the same could be said about many roads many just wide enough for 2 cars but those pesky cyclists expect people to wait until safe to pass.</p> <p>I have noticed lots of bad driving around horses when cycling, many ridden by quite young predominately women, would guess drivers generally have a better understanding, although not always great, how to pass a cyclist than a horse. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296867 Mon, 03 Dec 2018 12:18:11 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 296867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As Morningsider said, the situation complained about cannot arise in Scotland. But given most off-road cycle tracks are built to minimum standards and width, I find it hard to reconcile horse riders' stated desires for 'Oi, cyclists (and other vehicles), pass us with absolute maximum separation/slowness/notice' and 'Oi, cyclists, let us on that narrow sliver of cycle path'. Does not compute...</p> <p>And all that's before the horse egg situation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296854 Mon, 03 Dec 2018 08:51:02 +0000 wingpig 296854@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Remember there was that "cose-passing racing cyclists in racing costumes freak out horse and rider" video doing the rounds a few months ago - it would be very easy for cyclists to come across as arrogant toadsin the shadow of that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296853 Mon, 03 Dec 2018 08:02:50 +0000 gembo 296853@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The choice in a referendum is binary. Comments have little or no meaning. </p> <p>I get on very well with the horsey brigade out here. Mostly women but one man too.</p> <p>I stop for them when they are on the WoL path. I note they took their horse on the ultitrec experiment when it was still bedding in and the signs asked them not to, the evidence was solid.</p> <p>Lots of people working in education have their own horses or share them. Not a cheap<br /> hobby.</p> <p>Big response from them when I enquired about Hippotherapy. My version of that involved supporting the stable owner to be the person delivering the therapeutic input thus cutting out the need for an actual counsellor as the client was not a great talker.</p> <p>I am still not signing sch a negative mean spirited petition which denies the elephant on the road and picks on cyclists.</p> <p>A differently worded petition might have drawn more sympathy from me. E.g Extension of Bridleways - Roads are becoming so dangerous for users not in the mass weapons of destruction. Cyclists, horse toffs, walkers, Jimmy Donaldson skiing on road group, are all at high risk from terribly driven vehicles. Please either ban all cars from roads or create more off road Bridleways. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296849 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:33:55 +0000 unhurt 296849@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>(Definitely not all horsey people are minted - have a friend in NI who got into riding as a grown up; 15 years on she now owns her own horse but she used to have a "share" in one (in part paid for by doing all the mucking out etc. etc. - not just for stable girls in horsey schoolgirl's fiction!). She works in the public sector, lives in a tiny semi in a slightly iffy area, spends every single spare penny on Horse Stuff.)</p> <p>Anyway, I for one would look upon this as an opportunity to grow allies. Not sure reacting with "no, we won;t support you cos youse are all rich toffs and terrible drivers to boot!" is the MOST helpful response. Maybe a gentle nudge towards the work that was needed to get the off-road stuff they're eyeing with jealousy? (And I assume as per note above re access that this is in England/Wales - so who knows, more people wondering properly why access to the countryside there is so restricted might not be a bad thing...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296848 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:28:46 +0000 stiltskin 296848@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I do find it hard to have much sympathy here - horse riders are generally a very well-off bunch (yes, I know - not all of them), they are not some oppressed minority</em><br /> I’m not entirely sure that being well off protects them from lorries overtaking them too close?<br /> Although I do think they should be required to clear up their horses poo. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296847 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:07:57 +0000 gembo 296847@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My old boss used to live in The Shandon Colonies in the late 1960s early 1970s when he first came to Scotland. Every morning he would be lying in bed and would hear the horse drawn milk float followed by the scrape of his neighbour's shovel on the cobbles. For the roses. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296846 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 22:57:23 +0000 ARobComp 296846@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@morningsider <em>"no-one rides a horse to work" </em></p> <p>- Ernie the fastest milkman in the west </p> <p>AICMFP </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296845 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 22:32:28 +0000 Morningsider 296845@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Access rights in Scotland also apply to horse riders. They can't be stopped from using any off-road path that is open to cyclists, as long as they exercise those rights responsibly.</p> <p>I do find it hard to have much sympathy here - horse riders are generally a very well-off bunch (yes, I know - not all of them), they are not some oppressed minority. Also, off-road cycle infrastructure serves a transport and tourism function - no-one rides a horse to work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296843 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 22:09:44 +0000 ARobComp 296843@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's the horse eggs they leave all over the paths near me that I take issue with. Always where the path is narrowest too! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296839 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 17:46:29 +0000 gembo 296839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am with Crowriver, lot of vehicles getting in the way of the horses are the horsey people driving to and from stables. So sadly, with regret, I say to this petition, you're fired. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296838 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 17:42:22 +0000 neddie 296838@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I have signed this petition, but I do not necessarily agree with it.</p> <p>The problem is motor vehicles. Specifically, motor vehicles on rural roads.</p> <p>Motor vehicles need to be severely restricted on all non-trunk roads by the following measures:<br /> - default 40mph rural speed limit<br /> - stopping up rural routes to motor traffic to prevent rat-running<br /> - reducing the design-speed of rural roads by physical and painted measures<br /> - more enforcement of road traffic law<br /> - higher penalties for inconsiderate or dangerous driving</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296835 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 15:03:52 +0000 gkgk 296835@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I must say, I quite enjoyed this link, found it quite uplifting, thinking about about cyclists as being successful campaigners and privileged rather than "other". And it was terrific how she got her case through to conviction despite the police saying it wasn't worth even trying. That was good work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296827 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 13:57:40 +0000 rbrtwtmn 296827@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The scary thing about 'divide and rule' is how effective it is. We've become 'equestrians' versus 'cyclists' versus 'pedestrians' versus 'disabled people' versus 'visually impaired people'. We're all fighting for the scraps. It's brilliant. It's not organised - it's not planned - it's not an actual conspiracy - but it might as well be. In fact an actual conspiracy couldn't be this well organised.</p> <p>We all need each other - yet the one thing we can guarantee is that tossed scraps we'll all fight to get them. </p> <p>That video is horrific.</p> <p>I want these people on my side, because they're needing what I'm needing, which is a world where there's plenty of space away from motorised traffic, or where that motorised traffic is severely constrained - allowing life to thrive. Frankly, we all use cars, buses, things delivered by truck, taxis, and so on. We need these things. But we need these things tamed and harnessed for the greater good, not allowed to breed and proliferate and to fill every social and physical space, excluding all other human life but for a carefully protected bare minimum.</p> <p>And then getting to this place isn't ever about 'choice'. We don't get there through freedom of choice. We don't get there through 'encouraging' new users, or through standards or technicalities or any of the rest. We can only get there through careful social-planning - planning carefully for whatever it is which takes us to a different social functioning. </p> <p>And getting there will need support from all of us who are currently divided.</p> <p>What can we do to get there? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296824 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 13:34:01 +0000 crowriver 296824@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sigh. There's a lot of whataboutery in that petition.</p> <p>Sadly, this is yet another case of vulnerable road users fighting each other over the scraps of space left after the motorists have taken everywhere else. See the past messaging of The Pedestrian's Association (now Living Streets).</p> <p>Notably there is no mention of restricting space for motor vehicles. The proverbial elephant in the room. If I may be permitted to indulge in my own speculation, could that be because equestrians are fond of driving? Bothe to and from their equestrian centres or paddocks, and for transporting horses in trailers? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19313#post-296823 Sun, 02 Dec 2018 12:26:42 +0000 chdot 296823@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-pass-wide-and-slow-stop-preventing-horses-using-government-funded-off-road-tracks-9b4089c9-52cd-4e4e-a7ec-6df11305cf6a" rel="nofollow">https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-pass-wide-and-slow-stop-preventing-horses-using-government-funded-off-road-tracks-9b4089c9-52cd-4e4e-a7ec-6df11305cf6a</a> </p>