http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: All New Cars To Have Speed Limiters Fitted - EU proposal en Sun, 31 May 2026 12:42:45 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304944 Thu, 18 Apr 2019 10:42:56 +0000 mgj 304944@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I dont think that you have teenagers; they would pretty much refuse to go anywhere that they cant have internet access. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304925 Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:35:51 +0000 Ed1 304925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The problem with phones may be people scrolling through menus and not looking at the road. On new cars such as teslas they have an ipad on the dash board that controls many functions, almost all on a tesla. In a normal car you can adjust the heat, the blower, the radio, and the seats without looking away from the road. On many new cars you cannot. I would tend to think they should disable the touch screens while the car is driven. These are needlessly bad designs when have new cars that require you to look away from the road for functions that in a 60 year old car could do by touch. </p> <p>They should ban touch screens from being used while driving like a mobile phone, there is no reason why tactile buttons could not be used in cars. In a few years’ time when all cars have touch screens for heater and radio etc roads may be more hazardous </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304924 Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:24:48 +0000 Blueth 304924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's nothing wrong with passengers making calls but if the only way to stop the increasingly high number of drivers texting while driving is to slightly inconvenience passengers then that's a price worth paying. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304791 Mon, 15 Apr 2019 17:58:01 +0000 mgj 304791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Why should passengers not be able to make and take calls? And all modern GPS systems use mobile data; are you suggesting its much better to have the driver trying to read a map? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304788 Mon, 15 Apr 2019 17:37:10 +0000 Blueth 304788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely the most urgently required compulsory device is one that completely prevents mobile phone use within a vehicle when the motor is running? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304787 Mon, 15 Apr 2019 17:36:33 +0000 Blueth 304787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely the most urgently required compulsory device is one that completely prevents mobile phone use within a vehicle when the motor is running? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304780 Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:18:37 +0000 Ed1 304780@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So speed limiters will not be mandatory as was stated in some of the papers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-304773 Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:06:03 +0000 neddie 304773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>MEPs vote on new measures to improve road safety and reduce accidents on 16 April. The rules would make a number of safety features compulsory in new cars.</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20190307STO30715/safer-roads-new-eu-measures-to-reduce-car-accidents" rel="nofollow">http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20190307STO30715/safer-roads-new-eu-measures-to-reduce-car-accidents</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-302977 Wed, 13 Mar 2019 09:06:41 +0000 I were right about that saddle 302977@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Two nights, self sufficient, wired old bloke on a bike, ABSOLUTELY happy !!</em></p> <p>@splitshift</p> <p>Sounds like you might enjoy the book launch on the 28th. Be great to see you there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488&page=2#post-302971 Tue, 12 Mar 2019 23:50:17 +0000 minus six 302971@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>ABSOLUTELY happy !! </em></p> <p>@splitshift</p> <p>you should vent more often</p> <p>keep it flowin</p> <p>keep on truckin </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302964 Tue, 12 Mar 2019 22:16:45 +0000 chdot 302964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Two nights, self sufficient, wired old bloke on a bike, ABSOLUTELY happy !!”</p> <p>You do know about this??</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19490" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19490</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302951 Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:47:35 +0000 splitshift 302951@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Construction industry!!! My employer owns the vehicles, the yards, the contracts the world basically !!! However the construction industry have many third party people working to contracts that have penalties, blah blah , you know the deal . In all but very unusual situations the driver is the scapegoat, rightly , or wrongly !! Pilots also are often blamed in fatal , for said pilots, accidents! World we live in ! Rightly or wrongly!!!<br /> On a connected to this forum but not really trucks!!! I am presently editing a small short film that shows my latest, very meagre overnightx2 bikepacking/camping/ adventure ,help will be needed to post it on here! I can’t even post pics!! Two nights, self sufficient, wired old bloke on a bike, ABSOLUTELY happy !! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302577 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 17:37:44 +0000 chdot 302577@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“We can’t move unless directed by several banksmen types !”</p> <p>If only that was true in all parts of the construction industry! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302575 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 16:50:57 +0000 splitshift 302575@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ tulyar. I am thinking, I am sure, that all with possibly one exception , all our stores, have a turning circle within the warehouse yard. These SHOULD be used at all times and if a driver chooses to reverse on the public highway, across pavement junctions then it is his responsibility and will no doubt “ clear” my erstwhile employer of responsibility !!!all reversing must be accompanied by an audible and visible warning system , unless where stipulated otherwise! Environmental issues, sleeping neighbours etc !! There is actually a store with a particularly vocal local who has on his own changed our entire process. We have to park , about two miles away and await clearance from the store so we don’t have vehicles parking in the street. All warehouse yards, should, SHOULD, be secure and entry for myself is under their control.some stores have tried to get drivers to reverse in but the drivers generally kick up a fuss and get the turning circles cleared to allow entry. I am thinking hard and I don’t think we have any, ah with the exception of the store st Tranent, a nightmare, we have to drive into the car park , wait for store personnel to ensure the walkway is clear that we turn around over and reverse into a nasty wee space! We can’t move unless directed by several banksmen types ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302557 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 13:05:44 +0000 gembo 302557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie - drive the manufacturers &lt;chortle x2&gt;</p> <p>@ IWRATS, yeah I remember them for their song Elon was a Musk and the other one Tesla Girls (oh no that was OMD - who names an album after an academic book on the history of prison architecture? Yet also who has TWO songs about Joan of Arc) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302551 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:27:01 +0000 I were right about that saddle 302551@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I played drums for Tesla Beheading Crash in the early nineties. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302549 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:15:38 +0000 neddie 302549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just because there are some bugs in the limiter tech doesn't mean we shouldn't mandate it.</p> <p>Indeed, mandating it would drive manufacturers to improve it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302546 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:06:11 +0000 fimm 302546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Mr fimm and I have had hire cars which display the current speed limit on the dashboard somewhere. On the A9 they display 50mph - we think the read the road signs and are seeing the signs about the lorry speed limits and (reasonably enough) not the bit about it applying to lorries only. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302542 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:45:35 +0000 Tulyar 302542@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@splitshift might note that over a decade ago Epsom coaches bought some Euro4 Dennis Darts fitted with a speed limiter set at 29.7mph +/- 1% to operate on a TfL contract entirely within a 30mph limit. The delivery drivers hated the trip around via A3 and M25 from Guildford to the Richards depot at 30mph! </p> <p>In service the buses delivered less minor crash damage, reduced driver stress (well this bus will only do 30mph so why bother to hammer it out/back on an OOS positioning trip), and reduced fuel consumption... what's not to like? </p> <p>Unlike the old mechanical governors the engine management controls do not progressively limit power, so bus performance remains right up to the set limit.</p> <p>Stagecoach found a similar effect from their first trial of Greenroad, with as doubling of the mileage between crashes requiring workshop repairs. Both Stagecoach and Firstbus have Greenroad scoring and reward drivers for lowest scores, as well as calling in drivers who consistently hit high scores - regrettably the lack of drivers at the Leamington depot, and the management's failure to curb the clearly dangerous driving recorded for a 77 year old driver, leading to 2 deaths and a £2.3m fine for a Section 3 offence (HSAWA1974). </p> <p>I'd be interested in @splitshift's employer's policy on reversing and movements related to deliveries where trucks need to move around premises generating massive pedestrian activity in the immediate vicinity. No HSE prosecutions of site owners/manager have stemmed from the double fatality at Sunbury Cross (Tesco main store), by a driver travelling at 12mph without a vanguard on foot, or enforcement action, through the retail park car park - with a 5mph speed limit... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302541 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:18:43 +0000 Tulyar 302541@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Around 5 years ago I hired a car which had an optional announced speed limit which was clearly GPS driven and it immediately showed up a major flaw as I drove along the A500, dual carriageway (National Speed Limit) and I passed under a bridge carrying a local road with a 30mph speed limit, and the unit 'told' me that I should be doing 30mph. If that was directly capping my speed, and included braking I dread to think of what could have happened.</p> <p>North Lanarkshire (I'm advised) has school buses and refuse trucks fitted with Autokontrol systems managing the vehicle capped speed through the Euro X engine management software, but not applying the brakes. When buses enter school grounds they will have passed a beacon which switches on the speed cap. Likewise trucks on the refuse processing site pass through a cordon line which limits the top speed on site. </p> <p>The system can also be linked to reverse gear, so that the reversing speed can be limited to say 5 mph, which then ensures that a detection system (typically set to 1 metre detection range to avoid nuisance tripping) can apply the brakes and stop the truck before it hits the obstruction. </p> <p>It might ultimately be a requirement, initially for HGV and buses operating in city centres, with high levels of pedestrian traffic, and a disportionate level of fatal/serious injuries relative the the % of those vehicles in the traffic mix, to require a speed capping system triggered by roadside beacons (more reliable than GPS) when they enter speed controlled areas. Initially, until 100% speed limiter compliance, there would be a period where a CCTV record, and a requirement for a vanguard to travel with the driver, to be licensed to operate within the city. </p> <p>Andy (or others currently crunching crash data) might be able to provide a figure for the annual avoidable toll in deaths and serious injuries from truck drivers reversing without an attendant on foot in charge - Glasgow was fined £20,000 for killing a pensioner in 2014 with a reversing refuse truck, and learning no lessons from this, Stirling Council repeated the same mismanagement and killed another pensioner in 2016. My guess from a rough trawl of news reports is 10-20 avoidable deaths per year, bit it would be good to get a robust figure. </p> <p>Nathan, from Cycling Scotland also highlighted another issue with the Volvo 'convoy mode' cruise setting. It latches on the detection of the car in front, and 'walls/vehicles' in the zones to the side and front. If the vehicle in front turns left or right and rapidly 'disappears' from the detection the system as a right side failure response and slams on the brakes, if the driver fails to respond and take back control in time. The same result apparently if the crash avoidance system is active when going through a narrow gateway, or approaching a sharp bend on a walled lane. </p> <p>Finally we've now had the second Tesla beheading crash, where the car's system has failed to detect a white semi-trailer moving across the car's direction of travel, and driven underneath carrying on on auto-pilot for half a kilometre (sans roof) before crashing - this is currently being investigated by the US NTSB. </p> <p>I've some interesting material on what can go wrong with drive by wire vehicles (where an on board LAN - the CAN - sends control signals via a 2-wire bus circuit to the braking and power controls, with control systems that lack the parity checking, or triplex proving used for aircraft, and a robust right side default (eg cut the power (with a manual override of the auto system fails), apply the brakes (with a direct operated non-electronic manual system - the foundation brake), and stop the vehicle) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302540 Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:17:42 +0000 dougal 302540@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And will the crashes at speeds &gt;112mph have been significantly less dangerous had the limiter been in place? No. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302525 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 21:33:32 +0000 neddie 302525@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wonder how many crashes occur at between 112mph and 155mph? Probably next to none. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302511 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:59:32 +0000 I were right about that saddle 302511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We are 600 hours from the collapse of the legal order of the UK of GB&amp;NI. How can anyone reasonably have any expectation of anything those lunatics might do? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302510 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:58:08 +0000 splitshift 302510@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Old news, while at college many years ago , using rds technology that auto tuned radios to local traffic we built a system linked to cruise controls that would apply a limited that blanketed an area, like Edinburgh or a school. Our lecturers told us that while it was, technically an interesting project, it wasn’t really experimental enough !!! Apparently all the technology existed years ago but , not enough money could be generated via fines if everyone obeyed the law !! My truck now has sat nav linked cruise control, it knows when a hill is coming and changes gear, itself, wether to climb or descend. Sat nav shouts if speed limit is exceeded, on every road. Link that to the cruise or speed limiter and it’s done. However, I still got an on / off button ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302509 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:48:28 +0000 neddie 302509@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Are we not leaving the EU precisely to avoid this kind of thin-lipped Euro-mollycoddling?</em></p> <p>"And, no, Brexit won't make any difference. UK is expected to also adopt the Intelligent Speed Assistance ruling by MEPs"</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/carltonreid/status/1100719875604054022" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/carltonreid/status/1100719875604054022</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302508 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:45:36 +0000 neddie 302508@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The 155mph limiter is fitted to all cars (that would otherwise be capable of exceeding it) in the EU because of manufacturer "self regulation".</p> <p>This is what you get when you allow companies to self-regulate. Because they have deemed themselves that 155mph is safe, whereas 156mph is not! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302507 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:22:52 +0000 Snowy 302507@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hired a car in Italy for a couple of weeks. The built-in sat-nav showed the current speed limit as a nice big symbol on the screen. Very useful. Really no reason not to.</p> <p>I always liked the old Minis which had the speedo in the middle of the dashboard where it could be clearly seen by passengers. </p> <p>Wonder how much lower our collective emissions would be, not to mention insurance, if speed was dynamically capped at the legal limit? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302506 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 16:43:56 +0000 I were right about that saddle 302506@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider</p> <p>Yikes. I take it gangsters stick a screwdriver through that module? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302504 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 16:26:12 +0000 Morningsider 302504@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IWRATS - all new cars sold in the EU since 31 March 2018 have both active GPS and the ability to communicate over GSM systems as part of the e-call system - which alerts emergency services automatically if your car is involved in a collision. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19488#post-302503 Mon, 04 Mar 2019 15:55:58 +0000 I were right about that saddle 302503@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So will active GPS become compulsory in all vehicles? What happens if you tape over these sign-reading cameras? </p>