http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Pavement Parking Ban en Tue, 19 May 2026 04:47:34 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357662 Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:58:00 +0000 jonty 357662@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah, the 'narrow street' exception feels extremely wooly. A road which is too narrow to park on is, surely, too narrow to park on? Presumably the intent is that this is used for narrow streets were pavement parking has become normalised, but surely the whole point of the Act is to reclaim the pavements on such streets? And yes, it's not clear if this is meant to allow parking on one side or both sides. </p> <p>All in all, it really does feel like the reality of this law has just been more and more disappointing at every turn. We already knew that most pavement loading was going to be explicitly permitted or impossible to enforce against, but now we learn that pavement parking in residential areas will all probably end up exempt too. Great! The pavement parked cars themselves, however, will be fully protected from being double parked over. Phew.</p> <p>I assume the driveway thing is simply to ensure the act remains focused on dropped kerbs for pedestrians as was the intent of the act. Parking in front of driveways is covered already covered by different legislation I think. Perhaps covering it under this one would mean it moves to decriminalised parking attendant enforcement rather than police enforcement. It's quite rare that driveways get blocked badly so perhaps the threat of police enforcement is viewed as working sufficiently well for now. (Or perhaps they're planning a Prohibition of Driveway Parking Bill next year, which actually legalises it if you promise you really really couldn't get parked anywhere else.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357661 Tue, 21 Dec 2021 17:52:31 +0000 boothym 357661@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed, the reference to 1.2m is strange as all the exemptions allowed in the Act mention 1.5m. <a href="https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2019/17/part/6" rel="nofollow">https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2019/17/part/6</a> (s55)</p> <p>I'm trying to imagine the scenario in Q1 (b) - </p> <p><blockquote>the carriageway associated with a footway is of sufficient restricted width or access that -<br /> it would be rendered unpassable by emergency vehicles when one or more vehicles are parked on the carriageway, but would be possible to access if vehicles were permitted to park on the footway.</blockquote></p> <p>What are we talking about here, a carriageway that's 3-4m wide, or one that's 6.5m but with parked cars on both sides? And how big of a footway - will there still be 1.5m left? </p> <p>I'm also confused by section 57, dropped footway exemptions - </p> <p><blockquote>(2) The dropped footway parking prohibition does not apply where the footway has been lowered or the carriageway has been raised as described in section 56(1) for the purpose of access to a driveway or to a garage (whether on commercial or residential premises).</blockquote></p> <p>That means you can park in front of someone's driveway? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357654 Mon, 20 Dec 2021 23:46:35 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 357654@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IMO the only times it should be allowed are<br /> 1) dropping off or picking up a disabled person<br /> 2) an emergency </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357652 Mon, 20 Dec 2021 21:11:28 +0000 Morningsider 357652@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The preamble to Question 1 suggests that pavement parking be allowed where:</p> <p><blockquote>(a) the footway is of sufficient width to enable 1.5 metres (down to an absolute minimum of 1.2 metres over a short distance to take account of street furniture) to be available for the passage of non-vehicular traffic (including pedestrians, wheelchair users and mobility scooters) when a vehicle is parked on the footway</blockquote></p> <p>Odd then that Transport Scotland's own <a href="https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/30228/j256264.pdf">Roads for All</a> good practice guide states:</p> <p><blockquote>The minimum width of a footway is to be 2000 millimetres in normal circumstances, since this width allows two wheelchair users to pass.</p> <p>In existing constrained environments and where obstacles are unavoidable, an absolute minimum width of 1500 millimetres may be used without the requirement of a Departure from Standard.</blockquote></p> <p>Allowing clearance well below the "absolute minimum" standard required for wheelchair users? I suppose I don't need to say anything, as those well-known supporters of disabled people SWEM and GEM will be on the case any minute... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357651 Mon, 20 Dec 2021 20:36:57 +0000 acsimpson 357651@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm not sure I chose my words quite so carefully but I agree. If there really is space for parking then surely the kerb needs to be moved to signify that it isn't pavement.</p> <p>The worrying suggestion from the first(?) question is that they are considering allowing exemptions to fully block a pavement if a road is too narrow for parking and traffic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357648 Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:29:22 +0000 Greenroofer 357648@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I replied to the consultation (which was lengthy) to say I felt it was based on a flawed premise that there was any situation in which an exemption was justified. If there's never a justification, then there's no need for an exemptions process.</p> <p>I chose my answers and wording carefully to ensure that either taken in isolation would signal my objection to the whole thing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357631 Sun, 19 Dec 2021 11:52:53 +0000 ejstubbs 357631@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@boothym: <em>even if there was an exemption to park on the pavement in certain areas, would it not still be an offence to drive onto a footway</em></p> <p>Indeed.</p> <p>IMO this is a good example of what happens when illegal or antisocial behaviour becomes 'normalised'. It only takes a few moments' reflection to conclude that - since no driver ever arranges to be followed around by a 2T crane - every single instance of pavement parking you ever see <em>must</em> have involved driving on the footway, which is illegal. It's therefore prima facie evidence of that offence having been committed. Despite that, it's apparently impossible to enforce these obvious breaches of the law*, so an additional law has to be passed specifically to make pavement parking illegal. But that practice has become so ingrained in the behaviour of certain 'normal law-abiding citizens' that the legislature feels the need to allow permanent exemptions for the convenience of some who steadfastly refuse to comply with the already-existing laws and/or who seem to regard 'parking' (aka leaving one's motor vehicle cluttering up the public highway) as a right obtained through the payment of 'road tax'.</p> <p><em>* Rather than making pavement parking illegal in itself, how difficult would it have been to make the offence of driving on the footway <u>as evidenced by a motor vehicle being abandoned thereupon</u> work like speed cameras i.e. it would be the responsibility of the registered keeper of the vehicle to identify who was driving at the time of the offence, or else incur a penalty themselves. But that would no doubt be regarded as yet another offensive in the "war on motorists" (one which they seem to be winning fairly comfortably, going by the casualty rates on the various 'sides' involved - even allowing for the fact that a good proportion of the casualties on the drivists' side are "blue on blue").</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357625 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 11:09:17 +0000 Frenchy 357625@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, that's right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-357624 Fri, 17 Dec 2021 23:44:21 +0000 boothym 357624@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I see there's now a consultation running until March about pavement parking exemptions: <a href="https://www.transport.gov.scot/consultation/scotland-s-pavement-parking-prohibitions-consultation-on-pre-implementation-directions-and-regulations-for-local-authorities/" rel="nofollow">https://www.transport.gov.scot/consultation/scotland-s-pavement-parking-prohibitions-consultation-on-pre-implementation-directions-and-regulations-for-local-authorities/</a></p> <p>A lot of questions and I've not read it all. However even if there was an exemption to park on the pavement in certain areas, would it not still be an offence to drive onto a footway, park on a cycle track, or park an HGV on the pavement? Unless the legislation has amended those laws as well. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533&page=2#post-310316 Mon, 08 Jul 2019 21:22:17 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 310316@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I just checked DVLA in relation to another pavement parker this time near my mother-in-law. MOT has ran out LOL, I'll check in a week just in case there's been a slight paperwork delay before reporting though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-310220 Sun, 07 Jul 2019 15:27:17 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 310220@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A bit of a success in relation to parking at my mothers.</p> <p>E-mail received from the police today :)</p> <p>'Further to our phone conversation today I can confirm that I have been to Dochart Drive regarding the parking issue you have raised. I have spoken to the keeper of a vehicle that was parked on the pavement and will continue to monitor the situation.' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-310143 Sat, 06 Jul 2019 09:58:57 +0000 Rosie 310143@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks everyone. Someone sent in a picture showing a car parked on a pavement leaving enough space for a thin person walking sideways to get past. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-309873 Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:59:14 +0000 Frenchy 309873@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also worth noting that the council can't enforce yellow lines on privately owned streets, such as Charles Street. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-309870 Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:53:07 +0000 ejstubbs 309870@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And yet on the other parking thread we had the story of the <a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/livid-edinburgh-driver-prepared-to-take-city-council-to-court-over-60-parking-ticket-1-4878515">"livid law lecturer"</a> who did get a ticket from the council for parking on the footway in a double yellow area.</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12775&amp;page=21" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12775&amp;page=21</a></p> <p>I think what actually needs to happen is that the folks who man @edinhelp and 101 need to be told by their management not to fob off the people who pay their wages with uninformed excuses for not taking any action. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-309865 Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:23:53 +0000 EdinburghCycleCam 309865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>If there are yellow lines on the adjacent road, then the council can also ticket the vehicle, even if it's parked entirely on the pavement.</em></p> <p>Emphasis on "can". Every time I've seen folk on Twitter reporting pavement parking on double yellows to @edinhelp, they come back 24 hours later and say "this is a matter for Police Scotland, please call 101" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-309864 Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:10:42 +0000 Frenchy 309864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Pretty much, aye.</p> <p>Couple of caveats:</p> <p>If the vehicle isn't causing an obstruction, they won't take action. "Causing an obstruction" seems to mean "Prevents someone with a wheelchair or buggy getting past".</p> <p>If there are yellow lines on the adjacent road, then the council can also ticket the vehicle, even if it's parked entirely on the pavement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-309863 Tue, 02 Jul 2019 08:58:23 +0000 Rosie 309863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Reading through this thread I then gather that for pavement parking you can (a) complain to the police; (b) don't expect them to take any action. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-308164 Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:49:32 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 308164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Frenchy, interesting, thanks. Doesn't seem to be working judging by the video. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-308163 Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:46:54 +0000 Frenchy 308163@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If this is where I think it is, I believe the drivers are supposed to be in radio contact somehow, so that they can make sure they don't pass each other on the wrong section of road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-308162 Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:29:59 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 308162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not quite pavement parking but unsatisfactory nonetheless</p> <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/video-child-safety-fears-as-lothian-buses-mount-pavement-daily-at-edinburgh-junction-1-4941173" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/video-child-safety-fears-as-lothian-buses-mount-pavement-daily-at-edinburgh-junction-1-4941173</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-304047 Fri, 29 Mar 2019 16:36:05 +0000 Tulyar 304047@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A lot of footway parking can be prosecuted now if the will was there - ALL vehicles over 7.5T GVW - illegal to drive &amp; park on footway S.19 RTA 1988 Obstruction section 129.2 Roads Sc 1984 s.137 Highways 1980 and S.28 Town Police Clauses 1847 Plus parking restrictions extend to outer edge of the footway unless otherwise noted </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303867 Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:10:36 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 303867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The lack of action has normalised pavement parking. Even in streets where there is a parking lane practically everyone parks partly on the pavement.</p> <p>The police will occasionally take action if someone takes up all the pavement but even then that is very rare. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303861 Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:13:04 +0000 lingcat 303861@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes! This is what drives me so batty about it – it's hitting the worst of all worlds by not actually doing anything remotely useful for other drivers, while actually substantially inconveniencing anyone on the pavements. And then there's what it implies about the sheer extent of the casual erosion of the last car-free space in cities. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303837 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:19:01 +0000 crowriver 303837@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'a token "considerate" gesture to other drivers'</p> <p>Indeed. What irks about these sorts of gestures is the complete <em>lack</em> of any consideration for pedestrians. Drivers only care what other drivers think of them, it would appear. Everyone else who is not driving can go hang... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303827 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 20:16:18 +0000 gembo 303827@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All done on a double yellow line too. In some ways I salute them for saying We are anarchists who will double park two of our vehicles at all times of the day and night and you will never touch us</p> <p>Also on the same double yellow line - important medical supplies that must get delivered in in same daily emergency every day to lloyds pharmacy - oh wait, the parcel is so tiny the van driver could have parked legally round the corner and given it to a two year old to deliver to the chemist and get paid with a lollipop.</p> <p>Also to move from ratcliffe terrace I watched delivery to pharmacy in Balerno during last farmers market which involved the delivery driver driving through the market to deliver a small envelope worth of drugs. There is a large car park 50 metres from the chemist but wait pharmacy deliveries are obviously vital. Else why would you drive through a farmers market? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303825 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 20:07:25 +0000 toomanybikes 303825@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Chinese Double Parking"</p> <p>Love that this has a name. It's so annoying and so constant.</p> <p>I've never seen a drop of enforcement along that road, very frustrating. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303823 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 19:42:37 +0000 gembo 303823@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Last Thursday just after 12.15pm the entire quality bike corridor from Chinese Double Parking to Summerhall had vehicles parked in it. having a laff </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303802 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 14:23:41 +0000 Morningsider 303802@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Iain McR - The list of exemptions to the pavement parking ban can't be changed until "Stage 2" consideration of the Bill by the Scottish Parliament's Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, which hasn't started yet. </p> <p>Even then, an MSP has to submit an amendment for consideration by the Committee - which it must approve before inclusion in the Bill. No guarantee there will any significant changes. Although I imagine the Greens will propose removing some exemptions - particularly the 20-minutes for "loading", which currently renders any ban meaningless. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303801 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 14:21:47 +0000 lingcat 303801@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is it just me getting the feeling that pavement parking is becoming so habitual for some drivers that they think it's actually *necessary* (as opposed to just "acceptable when it suits me")? I keep seeing vehicles parked with two wheels on the pavement in what looks like a token "considerate" gesture to other drivers – it doesn't actually change the space available in the road in any material way and I can't see any other reason for it. </p> <p>Anyway, yes, I also harbour dismal hopes of a ban ever being enforced. Wouldn't be much of a challenge to introduce robust citizen reporting systems, but as long as "fining law breakers is somehow unfair if they used a motor vehicle to break the law" as acsimpson aptly says, not much hope. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=19533#post-303796 Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:26:31 +0000 Frenchy 303796@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Note to self: start carrying copies of parliamentary bills in pannier. </p>