http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Knocked off my bike this morning en Wed, 13 May 2026 02:18:09 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988&page=2#post-21370 Thu, 13 Jan 2011 15:30:21 +0000 ruggtomcat 21370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ive been thinking about this a lot, I dont put it about on the forum, but I am more than aquainted with the priciples and practice of magic and illusion. I know that there are many ways that something can be rendered 'invisible' and most of the really effective ones happen <strong>inside the head of the observer.</strong> </p> <p>What we really need is a change in culture. You can be a bright yellow retro-reflective elephant and people will still never see you under the right circumstances,<br /> So lighting up only goes so far.</p> <p>What about increased punishment? Readers of freakonomics will know that punishment is not a great motivating force, and doesnt tackle the problem of not looking in the first place.</p> <p>Education? </p> <p><em>"there are probably around 50 to 60 cyclists on site even during winter months I might see if we can arrange a talk by road safety for the cyclists."</em></p> <p>This reminds me of when i had a cycle commute in Portugal, a crazy country where people can and do have a beer whilst filling up the tank, that has amazing road death figures for a 1st world country and where the only safety campaign I saw in 5 months of living there said 'Pedestrians!!! Watch out!'</p> <p>So its driver education, we need people to <em>always</em> expect there is going to be a bike round the next bend in the same way that cyclists always expect divers not to see them. Conventional Safety campaigns would help, school education, make it part of the national driving test, cool. But really, we need more bikes on the road. Until then, be very careful out there. Its culture we need to change. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988&page=2#post-21354 Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:22:27 +0000 Numptie 21354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for the pointers, I have a head band light that I used when I needed two hands free to tinker inside my pc, might give that a try. I already have a small flashing LED style light mounted front and back on my bike helmet. Had an appointment to give my statement to the police at Drylaw station yesterday, took nearly one hour to complete. Was told they would get back to me with any outcome. Also getting their road safety officer to contact me, and as there are probably around 50 to 60 cyclists on site even during winter months I might see if we can arrange a talk by road safety for the cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988&page=2#post-21304 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:47:23 +0000 spytefear 21304@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All good points Dave - I saw a cyclist from the car over parked cars at a junction thanks to helmet lights, also as you say you can point it at wing mirrors and left and right at juctions into driver's line of sight </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988&page=2#post-21302 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:31:26 +0000 Dave 21302@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Numptie - do you think the problem is that the drivers can't see your front light (because they're facing your left side), or either that they are looking at your front light but miss it (or don't care and try to get through anyway)?</p> <p>Even London Road to go north up Leith Walk (which is pretty acute due to the large size of the roundabout) gives me no trouble with front light only.</p> <p>If you do want something extra, my top tip would be to fit an extra white light to your head - either a bike light taped to the helmet for those who do, or a headtorch-style for those who don't (added advantage, you now own a headtorch).</p> <p>Staring at the oncoming traffic on the RAB will make even a modest light seem rather bright from their point of view. This has a few advantages over a side-pointing rear light:</p> <p>- it is an extra light all the time, even when you're bimbling in a bus lane<br /> - you can stare at drivers doing other things, such as waiting at side-streets, to make sure they are getting a lot of photons for their money<br /> - your head is largely higher than the vehicle in front, which will help protect you against the "last in queue" hook (where an oncoming car waiting to turn right shoots the "gap" that you're riding in because your light is obscured by the car you're following).</p> <p>Finally, to drivers, a rear light is something going away from you that must be overtaken, a front light is something you'll crash into. If you do plan on a side-pointing light, I'd fit a front one instead (this is not illegal provided it's not visible from behind). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988&page=2#post-21299 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:54:51 +0000 spytefear 21299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ruggtomcat - I got them in the local bike shop Freewheelin but they are available online too </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21297 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:43:11 +0000 Numptie 21297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just going from experience, my brushes with traffic where I have had to break hard to avoid a collision have all been on roundabouts where I have checked for traffic coming from my right, entered the roundabout and whilst in the middle of the roundabout a vehicle has driven towards me from my left. Would a vehicle be able to see a front facing light especially when there are streetlights? In the situation I have described, you have very little time to react. One driver crossing Crewe Toll roundabout who made me brake heavilly and yell at him carried on as if I wasn't there and was oblivious to the fact he had nearly caused an accident. I for one intend to add a flashing rear light to the LHS of my bike. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21294 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:39:47 +0000 ruggtomcat 21294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>where from spyte? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21286 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:28:07 +0000 spytefear 21286@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sideways visible on my bike because I went for the more-lights-than-the-ISS option and added blue LED lights to the valve caps. Creates a nice ring of blue and given the batteries have been going since September or October (whenever it started getting dark) and came supplied with a set of spares I think that was £10 well spent </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21146 Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:30:07 +0000 ruggtomcat 21146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I like it more for when Im pulling out into traffic from a side street, Its also one of these easy to recognize things, like pedal motion, two round circles mean bicycle to anyone.</p> <p>Other good situations, roundabouts, converging country roads, flash photography :)</p> <p>I love my High Viz, I dont think it makes me any safer, i <em>still</em> ride as if nobody can ever see me but I love the effect when i see <a href="http://i.blogs.indiewire.com/images/blogs/kohn/archives/tron.jpg">someone from the future</a> ride past ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21113 Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:34:46 +0000 Min 21113@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am glad it is not just me that struggles to see a proper benefit to side visibility. If anyone can enlighten me please do! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21074 Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:17:02 +0000 Dave 21074@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm. Try to imagine riding along for an extended period of time being lit up from the side by a moving car. </p> <p>You'll find it's quite hard geometrically, because if the car and you are heading towards the same spot, their headlights will be shining at the place where you're going to be (but aren't there yet).</p> <p>My experience is that a driver who pulls out in front / into you will be exposed for a good length of time to your front lights, but to a side reflector? Not so much.</p> <p>I mean, it probably won't cause you to have *more* crashes, but the money might be better put towards a front light, sort of thing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-21034 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:20:25 +0000 Claggy Cog 21034@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Has anyone mentioned these. My neighbour has them fitted and they make him highly visible from the side.</p> <p><a href="http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=cateye+spoke+light&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;ei=TGgrTZbGOYK6hAf_-8GiBQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=product_result_group&amp;ct=title&amp;resnum=3&amp;ved=0CDsQrQQwAg" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=cateye+spoke+light&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;ei=TGgrTZbGOYK6hAf_-8GiBQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=product_result_group&amp;ct=title&amp;resnum=3&amp;ved=0CDsQrQQwAg</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20997 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:19:44 +0000 BicycleLegal 20997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would agree with @Dave's comment that if people don't look they won't see.<br /> In anyone is not aware of the case I think @Dave is alluding to, its the Eilidh Cairns case: <a href="http://bit.ly/etaiBf" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/etaiBf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20949 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:15:51 +0000 Dave 20949@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Plenty of people pull out in front of, and are t-boned by, regular cars, white vans, double decker buses and even ambulence/police cars with their sirens going. </p> <p>Plenty of people nail into the back of a stationary police or AA recovery car with their lights flashing and a barn-door's worth of reflective paint.</p> <p>It's too much to hope that being on a bike will make you more 'visible' than an ambulence with sirens on, I think.</p> <p>People don't look, they won't see.</p> <p>The real problem is that there is (in practice) little enforcement or punishment of dangerous driving. Someone who knowingly gets behind the wheel of a large goods vehicle with defective eyesight and kills someone gets the same fine as his neighbour who let their dog foul the pavement three times at £100 a pop.</p> <p>Imagine if a police marksman failed to own up to defective eyesight and shot a random passerby during an armed incident. Would they get "3x dog dirt fine" and told not to do it again? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20937 Sun, 09 Jan 2011 22:04:40 +0000 chdot 20937@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Cyclists 'left unprotected by police and courts'</p> <p>Drivers who claim they couldn't see bikes are too often believed, say campaigners</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2002#post-20935" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2002#post-20935</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20914 Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:38:30 +0000 alanr 20914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thank goodness you weren't injured, and that your bike wasn't damaged. You definitely ought to report it, but unfortunately, I think that even if you're lit up like a Christmas tree, if the driver (as sounds like it in this case) isn't really looking properly, there's nothing more you can do in the way of visibility. In this case, it really looks like it was an unavoidable accident and 100% not your fault. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20912 Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:24:44 +0000 Greenroofer 20912@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry to hear about your collision. Best wishes for a swift recovery.</p> <p>On the topic of side-on visibility, I've got a pair of <a href="http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/commuting-reviews/pedalite-pedals-review/932.html">flashing pedals</a> from EBC. They have an internal dynamo of some kind, and start flashing as soon as you start pedalling.</p> <p>They have an orange LED pointing out sideways, as well as a white front and red rear flashing LED. They are quite visible as they flash brightly and move up and down/round and round.</p> <p>The right pedal has recently stopped flashing reliably. and needs to go back to the shop, though... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20881 Sat, 08 Jan 2011 12:35:55 +0000 Min 20881@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, should definately report this stuff. And good news that you haven't discovered latent damage anywhere (bike or self)! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20878 Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:18:28 +0000 Numptie 20878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for all your comments, I have an appointment at Restalrig police station next week to give a statement. Probably like most people I wasn,t sure if I should report the incident considering the lack of damage to myself or the bike, but as you say if it isn't reported then that statistic is lost. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20811 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:53:22 +0000 BicycleLegal 20811@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would agree with previous posts by recommending that you report the accident as soon as you are able. If it is not reported, it never happened as far as the statistics are concerned. Also, if you do later decide to claim compensation, this could help. This is particularly true if there is a problem with insurance or identifying the driver as a claim may fail if the accident has not been reported. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20768 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 16:09:59 +0000 Dave 20768@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hopefully you got the driver's details. I could be wrong but I think you're obliged to report all injury collisions to the police, even if you're only ("only") on a bike.</p> <p>Whether you can actually be bothered, of course, is another matter. But it will help build up the picture of bike accident spots around town if nothing else. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20762 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:47:47 +0000 Smudge 20762@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kaputnik I'd agree with most of that, however there is no need to come to a complete stop, unless it is a "Stop" sign of course, not being familiar with the junction I had assumed it has double hatched give way lines?<br /> I have a little retro-reflective orange tape on the side of the bike but as has been pointed out it doesn't help when a SMIDSY is actually a SMIDL (sorry mate I didn't look), as usual... (airzound is however quite effective if you spot them in time and use your audible warning in the manner instructed by the Highway Code ;-))</p> <p>Edited to add, whilst being a Policeperson/employed by the Police is of course no guarantee of good driving I would have to say the vast majority of Police I see driving set a far better standard of driving than most road users, witnessed by the fact that they tend not to be noticeable! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20761 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:26:15 +0000 kaputnik 20761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry to hear this, Numptie and hope the damage is indeed cosmetic and limited to inevitable bumps and bruises. Most importantly I hope the steed is healthy.</p> <p>I know it's hard to exactly remember what happens in situations like this - but do you know if the driver had actually stopped and checker her exit was clear, or had she just slowed slightly and proceeded across the double-white stop line and assumed as there wasn't a car coming that it was clear? If it was the latter then she was clearly in the wrong.</p> <p>By saying "sorry, I didn't see you" what my mind thinks she is <em>actually</em> saying* is "sorry, it's usually very quiet at this time of morning, so I didn't take the 10 seconds to come to a complete stop, check my exits and then proceed when it was clear". </p> <p>Unfortunately, being in the employ of the Police is no guarantee of better driving standards as <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-12117483">the apparenthit-and-run on Hogmanay</a> tragically illustrates.</p> <p>* personal opinion from my experience of these situations </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20760 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:21:02 +0000 Smudge 20760@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's rotten, as the others say, be sure to report it (as I'm sure the other road user has... maybe!) and hopefully you got their details.<br /> It's always scary and mostly sore, best advice I can give is have a good hours soak in a hot bath tonight, as hot as you can bear, and then an early night. Hopefully that will help to limit the aches and pains, then, very important, get back on the bike asap before your brain convinces itself that riding is scary!</p> <p>As with the others, commiserations and hope there is no other damage (nor a repeat!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20757 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:57:27 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 20757@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ouch! (literally) Sorry to hear about this - touch wood it's something I've avoided so far. SMIDSY, as others have pointed out, is a poor excuse, and just another way of saying they weren't paying attention properly.</p> <p>As Arellcat says, I'd go to the doc and get a quick check over just in case, and it will almost certainly hurt more tonight, and you're going to to wake up stiff in the morning. I'd also check the bike very very carefully - all too easy for something like this to have cracked a frame or twisted some bit that you didn't notice originally.</p> <p>And with that in mind did you get the make, model and registration of the car just in case? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20752 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:32:42 +0000 Min 20752@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Horrible. I agree with others that unfortunately there is nothing that can be done to make yourself visible to drivers who do not bother to look in the first place.</p> <p>I am coming round to the idea that a death laser front light is the way forward. Makes it harder for them to ignore you.</p> <p>Glad it wasn't worse and hope you are able to ride again on Monday. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20751 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:30:42 +0000 chdot 20751@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"about 06:40 this morning"</p> <p>Asleep at the wheel(?)</p> <p>Surprising number of songs with that title!</p> <p><a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=asleep+at+the+wheel+lyrics" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=asleep+at+the+wheel+lyrics</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20748 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:17:13 +0000 Cyclingmollie 20748@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Glad you're reasonably alright. Let us know how it goes on Monday. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20747 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:00:57 +0000 Numptie 20747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have been cycling slower the last couple of days because of the icy roads, especially when I have to deviate from going straight forward. It makes you shudder when you think about the cyclist you see on a daily basis with little or no lights. Oh, the collision would have been at about 06:40 this morning. I deliberately come in early to avoid the build up of traffic, unfortunately the traffic didn't avoid me. Think i'll leave it till Monday to commute again. Don,t think I could manage tomorrow. Thanks for your concern folks, take care out there,. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1988#post-20745 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:47:33 +0000 Arellcat 20745@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Really sorry to hear about this! Come this evening you will almost certainly be hurting in various places. Will you have the confidence to cycle tomorrow? Will the injuries make it difficult for you? If you think there is anything amiss at all, get yourself over to the Station to make a report, and consider getting a check from your GP. <strong>Edit:</strong> In fact, please do make an appointment to get checked out. I didn't, last time I ended up on the road, and I spent several days worrying I'd broken my shoulder and my shin bone.</p> <p>Will the driver be too shaken to drive to work tomorrow? I doubt it.</p> <p>"I just didn't see you!" was almost exactly the same line I heard when I was once struck by a car that didn't stop on approaching a roundabout. How can you not see someone on the Orchard Brae roundabout? <a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=eh1&amp;sll=53.800651,-4.064941&amp;sspn=15.14217,30.454102&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Edinburgh+EH1,+United+Kingdom&amp;ll=55.95833,-3.227084&amp;spn=0.007543,0.02459&amp;z=16&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=55.958395,-3.22683&amp;panoid=J27P2XOAkPNEE7R7fihpQw&amp;cbp=12,100.06,,0,2.72">The sightlines</a> look good to me.</p> <p><em>I was wearing my high vis jacket and have lights front and back and helmet mounted flashing lights. What more can I do to be seen?</em></p> <p>You're already doing far more than the law says you need. But no quantity of bright stuff and flashing things can compensate for someone who isn't looking in the first place. </p>