http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Leaking roof! en Thu, 21 May 2026 08:30:19 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349973 Sun, 25 Apr 2021 09:39:15 +0000 acsimpson 349973@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not all lenders hold deeds anymore. I'd they don't then most likely the most recent solicitor to have worked on the deeds will have them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349965 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:34:58 +0000 crowriver 349965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie, do you have a mortgage on the property? If so, your mortgage lender has the actual deeds in their safe as security on the loan. If you write them a polite letter/e-mail they'll probably send you a photocopy free of charge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349960 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:45:20 +0000 neddie 349960@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Really useful information, thanks all.</p> <p>So, I managed to get a copy of the Title Sheet from Registers of Scotland (£3.60)</p> <p>Am I right in thinking to get the full deeds, you need to order the "Plain copy of individual deed" for £25, here:?</p> <p><a href="https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/order-deeds/submit-a-request" rel="nofollow">https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/order-deeds/submit-a-request</a></p> <p>Then filling in this form, I get to a pull-down menu which asks for: </p> <p><blockquote>Deed type</p> <p>As referenced in your title sheet</blockquote></p> <p>Except the Title Sheet gives no clue as to what your deed type is...</p> <p>The selection box contains the following:</p> <p><blockquote>Disposition<br /> Standard Security<br /> Discharge<br /> Deed of conditions<br /> Feu disposition<br /> Lease<br /> Assignation<br /> Assignation of lease<br /> Assignation of security<br /> Charging order<br /> Contract of Excambion<br /> Conveyance<br /> Deed Of Evacuation<br /> Deed Of Guardianship<br /> Deed Of Postponement<br /> Deed Of Real Burdens<br /> Deed Of Restriction<br /> Deed Of Servitude<br /> Deed Of Variation</blockquote></p> <p>Any ideas which I should select? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349949 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:31:19 +0000 mcairney 349949@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver thanks, I posted this before I noticed your 2 detailed posts earlier on the topic. It does seem like the sort of thing that is likely to open a can of worms and having had a recent-ish experience of arranging a communal repair you can't underestimate the effect of goodwill amongst your neighbours!</p> <p>We've had the dubious pleasure of having lived in the top floor in pretty much every flat we've lived in (2 rented, 1 owned) but at least we're moving down a floor each time.. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349948 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 12:38:03 +0000 crowriver 349948@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@mcairney, the burden in deeds is usually along the lines of an obligation for upkeep/maintenance of the roof itself, not the attic space.</p> <p>@wingpig, unusual that there's not some specified right of access to the roof for maintenance purposes (as opposed to the loft/attic space). Our deeds are quite precise about that, but are silent on ownership, which under common law means the attic and roof are owned by the top flats. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349939 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 07:48:26 +0000 SRD 349939@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seems to me that there's a good case for supporting expansion into roof spaces - densification rather than sprawl/commuters from outside city's tax base etc as long as they're (a) safe and (b) not just turned into multiple occupancy units.</p> <p>full disclosure: I live in a top floor flat and have considered doing this, but concluded the legal position was too murky to be fully comfortable with it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349938 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 07:36:42 +0000 wingpig 349938@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A pre-existing statutory notice on our old flat on the Pleasance (not enacted before they were all put on hold due to corruption, but the work was finally done a few years afgo after being organised by a resident) indicated that everyone was liable for the roof, guttering, shared hallway and so on but there was nothing in any deeds to determine who had access to or the benefit of the loft - presumably just the top floor; similarly, the ground floor wouldn't seem to have the right of access to the shared garden as they didn't have or need access to the stairwell from which the garden was reached, but one of the ground floor flats put in a door instead of a window at the back of the building anyway. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035&page=2#post-349935 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 22:35:13 +0000 mcairney 349935@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wonder how quickly the roof space becomes “communal” if there’s a leak? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349929 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 17:33:39 +0000 crowriver 349929@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"... they can renovate the attic space but they cannot add dormers or roof lights or alter the actual roof in any way. "</p> <p>Not necessarily. </p> <p>If the top flat also owns the roof, they can alter it as long as access rights are protected. So if say the hatch to access the roof is on their part of the roof, they leave that clear. If it's on another flat's part of the roof then as long as all flat owners can gain access the attic can be built into.</p> <p>Full disclosure: I know all this because I live in a top floor flat and extended up into the attic space. This was after the 2004 act came into force.</p> <p>My advice is, before even thinking about consulting a lawyer, get a copy of your title deeds and read them. Lawyers get expensive very quickly and you'll be wasting your money if there's no grounds for action.</p> <p>For dormers, planning permission may be required depending on the area, where they are in the building and whether they raise the height of the roof. It costs nothing to lodge an objection. However the owner may get permission regardless, especially if neighbouring buildings already have dormer windows in the roof. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349928 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 17:15:56 +0000 acsimpson 349928@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When I owned a flat in a tenement I never considered part ownership of the roof to be an asset. If I owned a lower flat and someone wanted to convert the attic then providing the structure was sound I would be delighted to suggest that they can take full ownership of the roof and have my title deeds updated to clarify that they will be responsible for all repair to the roof going forwards.</p> <p>They may own the attic space and be allowed to do with it as they wish but how would they convert it without altering the roof in any way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349927 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 16:56:33 +0000 pringlis 349927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When we sold our flat on McDonald Road in 2014 one of the first people to view it were a pair of property developers who said they exclusively bought top floor flats and converted the attics. They primarily worked in Marchmont but were looking further afield to other tenements. </p> <p>I looked into it after they mentioned it and it turned out that it was silent on who owned the attic space, which means it belonged to the top floor flats, but there was 1) shared ownership of roof costs and 2) a burden of accessibility to the roof for maintenance for other users through the hatch in the attic. They didn't bid in the end but here's the kicker, if it's explicit that roof maintenance is shared between all flats then you're in a position where they can renovate the attic space but they cannot add dormers or roof lights or alter the actual roof in any way. Which makes an attic conversion near impossible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349925 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 16:12:54 +0000 jonty 349925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I thought I understood that it was made harder to extend into a tenement attic space in 2004 or thereabouts, but it seems the situation is less clear than I thought. This letter explains the situation in detail though I can't vouch for its accuracy: <a href="https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/no-loophole-tenements-act-attic-raiders-1550348" rel="nofollow">https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/no-loophole-tenements-act-attic-raiders-1550348</a></p> <p>It sounds like you might need to speak to a lawyer! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349924 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 16:08:00 +0000 neddie 349924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks all.</p> <p>It's not that I necessarily want to stop it going ahead, but I do want to make sure that people aren't helping themselves to communally owned property </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349923 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 16:06:38 +0000 SRD 349923@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think other owners may still have responsibility for roof repairs, but not around any windows etc put in? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349920 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:38:27 +0000 crowriver 349920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider, unlikely there is communal ownership, but there might be a communal burden of responsibility to maintain the roof itself. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349919 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:37:22 +0000 crowriver 349919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>BTW if the deeds are silent on who owns the attic space then my understanding is that the top flats own it, and possibly the roof itself too unless something else specified in the deeds.</p> <p>So if your question is really "can I stop this happening?" then the most likely answer is no unless the deeds specify the attic or roof is jointly owned. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349918 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:36:52 +0000 Morningsider 349918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Neddie: check your title deeds, if you have them. Chances are the roof and loft space are in common ownership (although not guaranteed). If this is the case then title can be transferred to the top floor flat by the other residents. You normally wouldn't get any significant payment for this, but you would no longer be liable for roof repairs. Of course, you could choose not to transfer ownership. I don't think you can be compelled to do so.</p> <p>Lots of information about property ownership on the Registers of Scotland website: <a href="https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/search-property-information" rel="nofollow">https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/search-property-information</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349917 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:34:13 +0000 crowriver 349917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie, if they own the attic space then they can do that as it is classed as internal works, unless they plan a dormer or similar in which case they might need planning permission. You may want to clarify responsibility for roof repairs with them or by examining your deeds. If they put windows or a dormer in the roof, then responsibility for those precise areas may fall with them upon completion. However the rest of the roof will remain a communal responsibility. </p> <p>If I was that owner, I'd be repairing the bit of the roof over the flat (and extension) during the build anyway as it would be in my interests. Also it might promote goodwill with other owners. However, legally there may be no obligation on that owner to repair the roof itself. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349916 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:17:50 +0000 neddie 349916@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry, should have been clearer, it's the ownership I'm interested in, as one flat owner wants to build into the attic space </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349915 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:09:16 +0000 crowriver 349915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Modern flats may have different arrangements but normally such repairs are either communal responsibility or delegated to a factor/management company. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349914 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 15:08:16 +0000 crowriver 349914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It does depend on the title deeds, however ownership is not the issue here. The majority of tenements will have a "burden" that means all owners are communally responsible for roof maintenance and repairs. So for example in our tenement, top flats own the attic space, and presumably the roof itself (though deeds are silent on this) but there is a burden (i.e. responsibility) shared by all owners for roof repairs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349911 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:59:02 +0000 neddie 349911@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks. Is there anything typical though for properties of a certain age e.g. Victorian vs modern, or are the deeds literally all different? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349910 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:53:37 +0000 SRD 349910@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>depends on the title deeds i think. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-349909 Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:50:09 +0000 neddie 349909@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In a typical Scottish tenement, does anyone know who normally legally owns the attic* space?</p> <p>(*not the roof itself)</p> <p>Is it:</p> <p>a) Communal space owned by all flats<br /> b) The top floor flat(s)</p> <p>TIA </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-323137 Sun, 23 Feb 2020 11:29:16 +0000 Baldcyclist 323137@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One advantage of factored properties, the factor will just sort whatever problem, and take a share of the money from everyone. Residents can't try to 'opt out', or at least the burden of recovery is the factors.</p> <p>Of course there are numerous disadvantages too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-323101 Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:30:00 +0000 Greenroofer 323101@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A belated chapeau to @SRD for the absorbent blanket tip. We've got a leak in the East Wing at Greenroofer Towers at present and these blankets are proving the perfect solution for soaking up the flow that's coming down the wall. </p> <p>Micro-Greenroofer came with me to the supermarket to buy the first batch, but he's refused to come again. He says the checkout assistant gave him a look the suggested that she thought they were for <em>him</em>... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-321051 Sat, 18 Jan 2020 11:14:08 +0000 14Westfield 321051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.landlordregistrationscotland.gov.uk/" rel="nofollow">https://www.landlordregistrationscotland.gov.uk/</a></p> <p>Is a great place to check which flats in your stair are rented and where to find the landlord. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-321048 Sat, 18 Jan 2020 09:27:30 +0000 acsimpson 321048@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My old flat used to have a collection of jam jars in the roof where the drips fell. There was a drip somewhere behind a press cupboard that we could never locate/fix.</p> <p>The problem was where the slates met the gable wall. There was a cement overlap rather than proper flashing so it would crumble every few years. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-321045 Fri, 17 Jan 2020 23:22:21 +0000 chdot 321045@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Yup, been there. A drawing pin and a bit of string can lead the water from the beam into a bucket.”</p> <p>“CCEers have all sorts of experience(s)!” (and advice!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20035#post-321044 Fri, 17 Jan 2020 22:39:20 +0000 Snowy 321044@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>often leaks run down beams</em></p> <p>Yup, been there. A drawing pin and a bit of string can lead the water from the beam into a bucket. </p>