http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Perthshire Gravel en Wed, 13 May 2026 02:53:10 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-354289 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 12:47:40 +0000 paddyirish 354289@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I did <a href="http://perthshiregravel.com/dunkeld-hermitage-loop/">this one</a> out of Dunkeld with Mrs Paddy on Monday - had a holiday when kids were in school.</p> <p>Rumbling Bridge was closed due to a big hole in the side, but it was easy enough to shoogle past the barriers.</p> <p>Really enjoyed it and extended along the river bank in Birnam. The big trees there are spectacular.</p> <p>Highly recommended. I'm looking forward to doing a few longer rides in coming months. Will be lovely in autumn. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342091 Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:05:42 +0000 I were right about that saddle 342091@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@mcairney</p> <p>That is good. It is a fine initiative. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342078 Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:04:56 +0000 mcairney 342078@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I must admit I'm wanting to try some of these routes once lockdown lifts sufficiently. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342068 Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:12:30 +0000 gembo 342068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The rubber was worn </p> <p>Those handlebars are epic </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342033 Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:05:41 +0000 I were right about that saddle 342033@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was tempted to offer @gembo a shot on the SUNLIT Uplander but fearful of what he would make of the anchors. </p> <p>Last thing I want is to see him sailing over that bike's fancy swept bars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342021 Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:20:48 +0000 acsimpson 342021@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote> Was your rim clarty?</blockquote></p> <p>If gembo were to try discs... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342017 Tue, 15 Dec 2020 09:34:28 +0000 I were right about that saddle 342017@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Charge sheet for the mechanic?</p> <p>What was the origin of the malfunction? Was your rim clarty? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342012 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 22:10:44 +0000 steveo 342012@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure if brakes not quite working should be your biography title or prog rock band. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342009 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 21:12:34 +0000 gembo 342009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I had quite an adventure today coming down red road as brakes not working brilliantly. Did manage to stop right before the gate. Was fun </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342008 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 19:52:55 +0000 ejstubbs 342008@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I tried being adventurous once but I didn't like it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342007 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:35:53 +0000 steveo 342007@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For the record I am also not adventurous!</p> <p>(not sure I'm fit or competent either mind) </p> <p>And have spent way too much time up to my knees in bog from GPx tracks planed in a nice warm office. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-342006 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:34:45 +0000 steveo 342006@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think these things are helpful even if you are adventurous. If you've only got two weekends a year to get dirty or you are based away from the location you might not want to just head off into the hills and risk a pretty rubbish trip. </p> <p>I've no problem striking off on a GPx track I've sat and planned in a nice warm office but odds are even if the running/walking/cycling isn't great its no big deal because it'll be a local trip and not my one week "in Scotland".</p> <p>Or what @roibeard said. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-341998 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:03:46 +0000 I were right about that saddle 341998@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Definition of success in my books. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-341996 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 12:54:26 +0000 jonty 341996@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Adventure and uncertainty are all very well but they won't cover for you when you're still waist deep in Rannoch Moor at 9am on Monday. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-341993 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 12:13:35 +0000 I were right about that saddle 341993@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For clarity @fimm I am not adventurous. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282&page=2#post-341992 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:55:25 +0000 LaidBack 341992@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Roibeard<em> I suppose that there's a continuum here - although my experience is more with diving.</em></p> <p>Reading <em>Treasure Islands</em> at moment. Amazing tales of diving and salvaging on wrecks around Scotland, including the <em>Oceania</em> in Foula. Almost as good as <em>Overlander</em>! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341991 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:30:18 +0000 chdot 341991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“That turned into a bit of an essay/rant, sorry.“</p> <p>Not at all, useful insights. </p> <p>I’ve never been <em>that</em> adventurous. </p> <p>Once tagged along with two others on an ‘adventure’ which was mostly ‘head west’. </p> <p>Not off road. Not entirely well equipped. Tent for two. Some camping plus youth hostels. I was on a small 5 speed as my bike had just been stolen. </p> <p>Various ferries including the small (then no cars) one to Ardnamurchan. </p> <p>I came back after Skye, they went on to Lewis. </p> <p>Pre-internet. I presume they must have done more planning than I realised, but it didn’t show...</p> <p>Glad I went, mostly fine (apart from the midgies). Done cycletouring holidays since: no camping. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341990 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:26:31 +0000 fimm 341990@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Roibeard exactly the point I was trying to make. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341989 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:22:58 +0000 Roibeard 341989@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I suppose that there's a continuum here - although my experience is more with diving.</p> <p>There are only a few people competent and capable of planning and executing safe diving in an uncharted area - never mind the risk of finding it to be boring/not worth the effort (negative results of experiments are still results!).</p> <p>Charts/maps increase the number of folk competent and capable of planning it, and reduce the risk to the return on investment of time/effort/money.</p> <p>Trip reports further increase the number of folk competent/capable and allow better assessment of the personal RoI.</p> <p>Signposting/guides/managed trips make it all the more accessible.</p> <p>Even with the above, competency to accomplish a novel expedition doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being so time/resource rich that risks are worth taking of a poor experience with a muddy bottom!</p> <p>There's great comfort in knowing that it's a highly technical challenge only for the most competent <strong>and</strong> there is a pristine shipwreck to explore...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341988 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:59:14 +0000 fimm 341988@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That turned into a bit of an essay/rant, sorry. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341987 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:58:21 +0000 fimm 341987@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IWRATS:<blockquote>As ever I find it hard to imagine what the group of people is who couldn't ride these trails under their own steam but would do so with gpx files and difficulty grades.</blockquote><br /> That's a bit harsh, IMHO. When you were planning your "Overlander" trip, you came on here and asked if anyone knew if one could get a bike through &lt;here&gt; and &lt;there&gt;. In the days before web forums, what would you have done? You might have gone anyway, you might have taken time to go and look at the questionable sections, you might have decided to play safe and re-route. I don't know, and it doesn't matter.</p> <p>These days the internet is a place that we look for information. Yes there are books too, and there are many advantages to books. But there is a greater expectation that there will be information and that information will be more detailed than it used to be. I can see this in the various hillwalking books that I own - the older ones are less detailed and assume a greater ability to match the route to the map and think about what you are doing on the ground. </p> <p>And if the information is out there, why would one not use it? And if someone is thinking "Can I get through there with a bike, or will I get to the top and find an enormous deer fence with a rickety stile?" then is the information that no, there is no impassable obstacle not going to make it more likely that people will go? And once you've done something like that, and find that you can, might you try something more adventurous next time?</p> <p>(I'm a case in point. First backpacking trip: the West Highland Way. Have since backpacked in to Fisherfield, Ben Alder area, Knoydart etc etc. Would like to walk from Achnasheen to Spean Bridge over the summits (that's a week in an area with one inhabited house (actually a Youth Hostel) on the actual route).) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341986 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:44:35 +0000 I were right about that saddle 341986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed. Thing being that adventurous people don't need route suggestions. So this suits the intersection of the set of people physically capable of doing it with the set of people who wouldn't do it without a .gpx file.</p> <p>I don't know how many that would be. Could be quite a few. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341985 Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:33:28 +0000 fimm 341985@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is a suggestion of an adventurous route, is how I would put it. Like the "Cape Wrath Trail" which has no signs on the ground. Not like an NCN route which is intended to be signed. </p> <p>See the "Capital Trail" (also a Marcus Stitz route) where mr fimm and his friend lugged their bikes up an evil hike-a-bike for a descent that they didn't think was particularly worth the effort (and they <em>were</em> on mountainbikes and are both fit and competent). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341844 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 12:59:28 +0000 jonty 341844@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks all very kind. </p> <p>Yes, I think to call this a route of 'cycle paths' is certainly to misunderstand it. I certainly found the bit before Glen Tilt the most perplexing inclusion, but realistically it's the only way of getting to the top of a really nice descent. You have a lot of time to think when pushing a bike up a hill, and I thought a lot about what you're trying to achieve when putting together a 'gravel route'. This route stays off roads as much as possible, whereas for me a good 'gravel ride' might even just be a mostly road loop made possible by a linking forestry track. (I think my philosophy fits more with the Badger Divide and I intend to find out next year.)</p> <p>Even though it's mostly 'gravel' I think you can tell it was designed by a mountain biker. This isn't just because some of the longer hikes would be more rideable on one, but because the route seems to be designed from a downhill mountain biking mindset. There are quite a few sections which clearly aren't in there for their own sake but are to be suffered for getting you to the next fun bit. This strikes me as a MTB "thing" whereas I think gravel - with its arguably less exciting descents - is probably more about the whole ride, like road. Nobody takes a mountain bike to Glentress just to go up the fire road and nobody takes a road bike to the Alps to put it on a ski lift.</p> <p>(Talking in tribes like this might all sound really strange and prescriptive, but for me it's just a way of trying to understand what factors make a ride enjoyable based on the subconscious expectations you might have.)</p> <p>I sometimes wonder if the full loop really just a marketing tool, created out of necessity within artificial constraints, with the real deal being all the day-rides? Certainly, as I alluded to before, I think the route would be slightly more useful as a directory of 'nice bits' - whether downhill, flat, or uphill - and then an explanation of any horrors required to get there. Yes, horrors are subjective, but I think a lot of people might then come to sensible conclusions like "the best way to do the Glen Tilt descent is by going up it first". But of course if we had then we probably wouldn't have been convinced to do our four day adventure and I wouldn't have come out with all these stories and opinions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341805 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:30:14 +0000 I were right about that saddle 341805@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, the idea that the descent from the east into the head of Glen Tilt is a recreational gravel ride is, errrr....simply not correct.</p> <p>This is the major flaw in all these mapping exercises. These are not cycle paths in any conventional sense. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341803 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:13:55 +0000 gembo 341803@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks Jonty, you have sold me......on tarmac :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341802 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:09:11 +0000 I were right about that saddle 341802@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@jonty</p> <p>Magnificent. You should certainly offer that to them as an article on their website. Few pictures, jobs a good'un. </p> <p>Thanks! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341801 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 08:58:21 +0000 steveo 341801@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Really good read jonty. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341800 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 00:50:09 +0000 jonty 341800@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>Day 1: Dunkeld - Blair Atholl</strong> (we swivelled the start a bit)</p> <p>A relatively friendly climb, in retrospect, out of Dunkeld - rewarded by great wind farm/forestry tracks with awesome views of the journey to come, punctuated by a short (but time-consuming) pathless and boggy hike-a-bike. It was fun to see where we'd be tomorrow while briefly on the Grandtully road. Quite long but rideable climb out of the valley with less views. I've no real recollection of descent into Pitlochry but it must have been fine. (We were in a hurry for lunch after a lot of punctures.) </p> <p>We skipped the fiddly bit out of Moulin, taking the road all the way to the turn-off. Tarmac became decent gravel for a nice ride along a pretty valley in anticipation of another hellish climb which didn't (quite) come. The sense of wildness was briefly shattered when we met a taxi driving very carefully the other way three quarters of the way up. Quick bit of descent (rocky, I think) but turning back on ourselves after crossing the river there was very little riding all the way to the top of Glen Tilt. A gravel bike didn't really feel like the right tool for dipping a toe into this part of the Cairngorms. The river crossing before Falls of Tarf was at the lower end of sketchy. Glen Tilt descent very pleasant as you'd expect. OK pub in Blair Atholl with smallish portions. There are no good camping spots above Blair Atholl!</p> <p><strong>Day 2: Blair Atholl - Grandtully</strong></p> <p>A delay to the forecast monsoon made packing up in the morning far more pleasant. Completing the rolling climb towards the top of Glen Bruar was OK - quite a few little river crossings followed by a quite rocky descent to a more complicated crossing of Allt Sheicheachan. We were happy to find going back down it to the bothy much more rideable than expected - quite narrow and exciting - but realised we'd probably got the route description mixed up and there followed a fairly long and unpleasant boggy hike to Bruar lodge during which the rain started. Glen Bruar descent was perfectly nice - a collosal herd of deer crossed in front of us and lept down the river valley at one point - but didn't feel "worth" the hike accompanied as it was with rain and puncture stop. The comparatively insignificant deviation to get over to House of Bruar felt much harder than it was in the circumstances, though the incongruous re-connection with civilisation in the form of dog-walking motorists was fun as we came back down. </p> <p>Neither the speed of service nor the temperature in the House of Bruar orangery was particularly friendly to our soggy bodies, but it was fun watching the absolutely bizarre Covid systems they'd put in place which involved waiters doing running jumps over rope barriers, a man whose sole role seemed to be telling everyone it was very busy and a woman turning people without bookings away from the queue for making bookings. </p> <p>The rain had pretty much stopped for the day while we were eating and we warmed up quickly through Calvine to find a rideable, shortish climb into really nice rolling forestry with good descent into Loch Tummel. We took the opportunity of a sunny snack at Queen's View and then a quiet road with very patient drivers wiggled and wound to the foot of the next climb. </p> <p>The climb here was probably the crux of the whole route. The first section was maybe half-unrideable purely owing to the gradient. Quite a few river crossings as well, some rideable with others not (or at least we weren't brave enough.) Once clear of the trees you could get some proper riding in, and in the sun I remember that it felt quite spectacular. I should perhaps have been paying less attention to the alpine splendour and more to my pace and fuelling because after it steepened up and became unrideable again, I started to feel very strange and was presumably bonking harder than I ever had before. Even if I hadn't been, the final hike would have been really tough and seemed to just go on. Fortunately I'd put enough things in my mouth by the top that I was able to enjoy the brilliant descent that seemed to go on forever, with the only real stop being to negotiate some highland cows. </p> <p>It briefly chucked it down again on the road to Grandully but I don't think I've ever felt so welcomed as at the Inn on the Tay afterwards.</p> <p><strong>Day 3: Grandtully - Glen Turret</strong> </p> <p>Standard overgrown summer railway path nonsense (particularly "exciting" in the dark the night before) to Aberfeldy but certainly preferable to the main road with a fun little section right by the river. Having not had breakfast we took our largest detour here, making a road beeline for the Highland Safari with its generous full veggie Scottish for riders and hose for bikes. </p> <p>Back on route by Ardtalnaig, we embarked on the closest competitor for crux climb. It was a little softer around the edges than yesterday's though and we were certainly better fuelled. The first section was very steep but almost completely rideable, and led to a more rolling, stream crossingy, secluded section which is one of my fondest memories of the whole thing. Being August, the purple heather was gorgeous throughout but it was particularly special here. The good gravel gave up at the holiday cottage(!) by the Almond, but the singletrack alongside was fine for our bikes with a just-rideable tributary crossing. From the dam it was simply half an hour's a walk up a very steep land rover track to a sharp turn, followed by the most pathless hike-a-bike of the whole trip - if the ones before were "boggy", this was simply "bog" - although we found enough tussocks to stay mostly dry.</p> <p>Eventually we caught sight of the gravel out, and it was another pretty good descent with another incongruous civilisation moment passing all the day trippers heading up Ben Chonzie and the rammed car park. Once we left the car park road, there was a lot of wiggling, longer than we expected, mostly rideable but often muddy, and a proper socks-off river crossing. The steep deviation of the A85 when we could almost smell the Comrie Croft cafe felt a bit unnecessary but the approach felt deservedly like we were coming in from "the wild" rather than a main road. </p> <p>The route finds a nice woodland trail once off the A85 and we found a very chill puncture stop, with the sun glinting through the trees. I saw a deer poking its head up out of a field of wheat as we dropped into Crieff. We squeezed whatever meal deal food and beer we could find space for onto our bikes and headed straight for Glen Turret, fearing the loop round the Hydro grounds might totally pulverise our dinners. </p> <p>"Gravel" as a concept gets a lot of stick but I just see it as a way of making sure you can have as much fun on the road as off it. It's fitting therefore that one of the high points of our "gravel ride" was the road ascent to Glen Turret dam. The sun was out and slowly setting, we had zero time pressure and, honestly, <em>cycling</em> up a <em>tarmac</em> road where you didn't <em>always</em> need to use your bottom gear was indulgent luxury. Had Covid not happened we'd have been in the Alps, and for a moment it felt like they'd come to us instead. </p> <p>Unfortunately, our luxury tarmac road still had some pretty huge potholes, and I absent-mindedly managed to catch my back wheel in one of them. I had been (smugly) running tubeless, but the pothole knocked all the air out of my leaky, under-inflated tyre. There wasn't enough sealant to get the tyre to seat with a mini pump but there was enough to make putting in a tube a thoroughly unpleasant job, especially as the sun faded and the wind grew and the pump nozzle pulled out the valve core just when you thought you'd finished.</p> <p>Fortunately it wasn't dark by the time we finally emerged at the dam and by that time we had the place to ourselves. We found an extemely scenic place to camp and had some extremely scenic dinner and beers and when the wind got too cold we went to sleep soundly in our extremely scenic beds. </p> <p><strong>Day 4: Glen Turret - Dunkeld</strong></p> <p>I never stopped to think whether the riding off Glen Turret was "worth" the climb in the same way that I did for other bits, because the climb was so enjoyable. (Perhaps the climb was only quite <em>so</em> enjoyable because of the difficulty of the previous climbs, which would make this whole system of "worthiness" even more complicated.) But it would have been worth a pretty nasty climb. It was really a rolling plateau followed by steep descent, but was pretty nice. I think the detour off the road was worth it too. Looking at the photos, it was certainly very purple.</p> <p>The long section of road felt odd - one thing you can say for Stitz is that he is good (too good, perhaps, in some cases?) at avoiding roads. It was nice and quiet and I envied the roadies we passed for whom this was presumably their back yard. It didn't last of course and soon we were back to the old routine - steep, steeper, time to get off and walk. An hour later we were on a winding, farmy descent with descent if slightly muddy tracks. Eventually the tracks turned into roads and the roads got bigger and then we were in Bankfoot. </p> <p>My first ever really long ride went through Bankfoot, and I remember seeing the steep fork up Cairneyhill Road and the relief I felt when I realised we wouldn't have to go up it. We didn't have to go up it this ride either, because Stitz had found an even steeper way. It took us to some overgrown, muddy, but OK singletrack where we fortunately only met one other person. It got a bit wider (perhaps part of the A9 works?) and skirting Murthly we really were on the home straight. </p> <p>Our eagerness to get home may have clouded our opinions but Birnam Wood did not seem like a great place to ride a gravel bike. Admittedly our route swiveling meant that our final straight was not the intended one and a lot of that section was probably fine, but a lot of it was unrideable, too narrow, and had families of walkers coming the other way at perfectly inconvenient movements. (I suppose it might be fun at quieter times on a mountain bike.)</p> <p>The final drop into Birnham, past the Victorian holiday cottages and under the railway bridge was good fun though and suddenly, with an Arts Centre cake and cuppa, it was all over. We met some other cyclists there - ready to quietly boast, we instead discovered to our horror that they had been on the road for far longer than us and were doing Land's End to John o' Groats. Useless. Fortunately the lady outside whose house we'd parked our cars had only been to the shops and was much more impressed with our efforts. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20282#post-341762 Thu, 10 Dec 2020 20:06:34 +0000 I were right about that saddle 341762@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Excellent, thank you. For what it's worth a member of this forum cursed my name on a gravel ride I had instigated. </p>