http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: “National Cycle Network cuts a quarter of its routes on safety grounds” en Tue, 19 May 2026 10:05:59 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=3#post-334564 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:33:04 +0000 jonty 334564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ha yeah, I'm sure in ten years I'll be moaning that a perfectly reasonable, wide and direct cycle path along a main road is too noisy and boring and the network should have sent me along the adjacent winding scenic route instead. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=3#post-334563 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:19:28 +0000 amir 334563@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@jonty to be fair, I've hd that when using the point-to-point navigation system in the Netherlands. You sometimes (but not often) take a wide meander, only to work out that there's perfectly acceptable direct route complete with A class cycle facilities. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=3#post-334562 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:48:28 +0000 jonty 334562@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot: presumably the same people as did before? Only now the 'gap' is marginally more obvious, which may or may not help. </p> <p>@amir: I agree. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be nice to have a development of the implied lower-class 'named route' network to offer more routes that are a bit busier but the 'least worst' reasonably direct option.</p> <p>I really like having NCN routes to lean on for 'quietish' decent roads in rural areas, but as you say you have to be vigilant when they meander into towns and cities. It would be nice to not need to bother. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=3#post-334560 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:24:07 +0000 gembo 334560@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>C class roads in Minorca have a 20kmh an hour limit. Similar in Mallorca - called Greenways</p> <p>They might drive a little faster but generally very safe. (There was the space cadet in the Audi which was a tragedy) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=3#post-334559 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:17:47 +0000 amir 334559@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Maybe they can take out the steps next... "</p> <p>Leading on from this, is there anything about the directness of the routes? Whilst Sustrans routes can sometimes be scenic, they are often meandering. A local example is the NCN1 from Midlothian to Edinburgh. Fine for those wanting to see the River Esk, the lovely Innocent path and miscellaneous housing estates, but not so good if you just want to go to Edinburgh. I'd guess this is quite common. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=3#post-334558 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:17:29 +0000 chdot 334558@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From link -</p> <p>“</p> <p>"We’ve purchased data that tracks traffic speed and volume, and what it shows us is that on B and C class roads in Scotland the volume of traffic is low but the speed is sometimes over 40mph, and when it’s over 40mph you should really be looking to segregate cyclists.</p> <p>“</p> <p>Ok, so who decides, pays for, and delivers the segregated routes alongside (presumably?) illegal activity? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334556 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:03:14 +0000 jonty 334556@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/sections-of-national-cycle-network-across-highlands-downgraded-in-routes-shake-up-206620/" rel="nofollow">https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/sections-of-national-cycle-network-across-highlands-downgraded-in-routes-shake-up-206620/</a></p> <p>This article seems to cover much better what's actually happening. Basically, no signs are coming down or routes are really coming off the map, but the NCN brand is going to become a promise that you're not going to end up on a super busy road. Fine. Maybe they can take out the steps next... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334547 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:25:59 +0000 I were right about that saddle 334547@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nobody can move on until they've expressed their anger. I am angry at Sustrans and need to say so but I won't waste energy on them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334542 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:51:05 +0000 unhurt 334542@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seems to me it's probably quite nice for those making the big strategic decisions about transport policy and spending<br /> if people who want things to be different devote their energy to arguing about if/how much we've been "betrayed by Sustrans!" (whose powers and budget are, I understand, hardly extensive in the greater scheme of things). Maybe there are more productive targets. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334406 Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:18:11 +0000 I were right about that saddle 334406@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I only just got @wingpig's joke. 21 hours I am <em>slow</em>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334380 Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:21:26 +0000 gkgk 334380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I read the article, like it. Edb to Dalmeny A90 cycleway has widened about an inch a year since the 90s - used to need trews for nettles on it, so narrow. The sustrans accreditation threshold for infra was getting dated (this last decade), time for a purge, to reset at a useful level and continue, makes sense. Whether Sustrans are good value in this work, separate question, I suppose.</p> <p>The (under construction) bridge over the a90 at Craigiehall has a 2m-wide cycleway/pavement, ends with a sign saying "Kirkliston (via busy road)", which right enough is info you'd want. I've no idea how it looks in any current network map. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334371 Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:04:21 +0000 crowriver 334371@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@IWRATS, "They've been taking the mickey out of us for a decade, quite openly."</p> <p>More like two decades.</p> <p>On reflection it's a great pity they have taken this decision, as it means the idea of a national network of long distance routes is effectively dead.</p> <p>Someone was asking why this is left to an overstretched charity to deliver. That's the British way since the Victorian era. Business and government fund and deliver the big, important stuff that's regarded as essential. The rest.....is left to charity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334368 Tue, 21 Jul 2020 10:30:25 +0000 wingpig 334368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"You can't just go around trumpeting your network and then admit it doesn't exist."</em></blockquote></p> <p>I know <em>exactly</em> whom we need to resolve this metaphysical network issue. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334347 Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:42:42 +0000 I were right about that saddle 334347@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm still annoyed about this. You can't just go around trumpeting your network and then admit it doesn't exist. </p> <p>It's like a con artist hanging around afterwards to laugh at you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334313 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:15:50 +0000 acsimpson 334313@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm confused by the new mapping. Hartside pass now has a gap in it which I assume wasn't there before and that is where signage removal was mentioned in the article. Perhaps the dashed sections will still be signed but not designated as NCN anymore.</p> <p>I even more confused by the dashed yellow routes (Off road routes non on the NCN). I assume they are poor surfaces or less likely too many side roads with those stupid junctions which take require you to make a 90 degree turn while looking 135 degrees over your right shoulder to check for OLAMs not coming round the corner too fast. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334312 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:04:03 +0000 jonty 334312@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not that I know of. I've seen it on the South Loch Tay road and somewhere on the NCN1/775 going to Perth. OSM wizardry to link NCN routes with 40 limits would probably give you some idea, or else there may be few enough that searching through press releases might be enough to find them all! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334311 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:58:38 +0000 Rob 334311@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@jonty is there any map of roads like that? They should do it for all roads which require passing places.</p> <p>I tested my theory that route planning will be easier by trying to work out how to get to the canal. The still-on-NCN75 looks awful (I've read too many posts on here about King's Theatre junction). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334310 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:51:00 +0000 jonty 334310@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah ha. To be fair, they seem to have succeeded in getting the limits on a lot of the rural roads I've used reduced with "40mph walking and cycling friendly road" signs. </p> <p>As you say though, for one I see the NSL Dalmeny road is still NCN though, and surely busier? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334307 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:28:54 +0000 Cyclops 334307@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>rural roads faster than 40mph are being taken out of the network.</blockquote></p> <p>Admittedly, that includes the Granites but also lots of other bits of the NCN which seem to have survived. If they removed all rural roads with the NSL there wouldn't be much left in Scotland outside urban areas. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334306 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:26:26 +0000 chdot 334306@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“agreed on the bridge”</p> <p>Could be better, but no real point in taking it off the map. </p> <p>Strong argument for signing ‘step-free alternative’(s). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334305 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:22:14 +0000 stiltskin 334305@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As a supporter I have fired off an e-mail to them.....Green Font </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334304 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:19:38 +0000 chdot 334304@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>WELL</p> <p>Maybe opportunity to concentrate on the dodgy bits that are still NCN... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334303 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:17:07 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 334303@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep - Granites are out but negotiating the whizzy roundabout where Cockpen Rd crosses the Bonnyrigg distributor is all good in neuSustrans world. Go figure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334302 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:14:07 +0000 Rob 334302@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Access points are also marked on the map with a dashed line, e.g. bits around the NEPN that aren't on the main route. Leaving the removed parts on the map as "ways to get to/from the NCN route" makes some kind of sense. </p> <p>@jonty agreed on the bridge. I'm also surprised that Newcraighall and Whitecraig are still on there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334301 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:14:07 +0000 jonty 334301@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What's going on here?</p> <p><a href="https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/55.81966,-3.07726,15" rel="nofollow">https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/55.81966,-3.07726,15</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334300 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:08:05 +0000 stiltskin 334300@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I’m pretty sure they are going to remove signage, so NCN 1 will no longer be signed down to Berwick. I don’t think that is an improvement. I also think that some of their decisions are perverse. Can’t see what is wrong with the granites. It’s a pretty quiet road? Or are they now saying that all they are promoting are routes you can take a 5 year old on. If so I think that is pretty short sighted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334299 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:05:42 +0000 jonty 334299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So the Granites road is out - too hilly? - but the steps over Brunstane station bridge are still in. This is not quite what I imagined would happen. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334298 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:05:09 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 334298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, they're marked with dashed lines for now, but "not on the National Cycle Network". I suspect once Sustrans reckon the furore has died down, they'll be deleted altogether. After all, why have something "not on the National Cycle Network" on a NCN map layer? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334297 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:01:29 +0000 Rob 334297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They're marked with dashed lines now. Around Edinburgh I see:</p> <p>* NCN 76 around Seton Sands<br /> * NCN 1 to Innerleithen</p> <p>@chdot it feels like this is Sustrans giving up on LAs/land owners who refuse to make improvements. I doubt it'll make them more likely to do them but at least now we can see where they are. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20283&page=2#post-334295 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 15:59:19 +0000 MediumDave 334295@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@jonty Good question, I'd assumed that it had been since </p> <p><a href="https://www.sustrans.org.uk/our-blog/news/2020/july/sustrans-to-enhance-family-offer-on-the-national-cycle-network-as-uk-moves-out-of-lockdown/" rel="nofollow">https://www.sustrans.org.uk/our-blog/news/2020/july/sustrans-to-enhance-family-offer-on-the-national-cycle-network-as-uk-moves-out-of-lockdown/</a></p> <p>mentions "online mapping". But maybe not.</p> <p>Edit: I see dashed lines on bits of the Caledonia Way up the side of Loch Ness which (presumably) were formerly on the network and also Strathyre/Balquiddher road loop. </p> <p>None of my examples are affected by the changes - all still solid lines so on the network. </p> <p>Also, going Aberfoyle/Drymen on road is still part of the network. Now that is busy! Strathyre/Balquiddher, not so much... </p>