http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route (Inc Braid Road/Estate) en Wed, 29 Apr 2026 20:37:23 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383964 Sat, 25 Apr 2026 10:53:30 +0000 chdot 383964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>An Edinburgh primary school has been shortlisted to be named as the UK’s best primary school of 2026 at a prestigious competition.</p> <p>South Morningside Primary School has been named as a nominee for Primary School of the Year at the Tes School Awards 2026.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/education/edinburgh-primary-school-in-the-running-to-be-named-uk-best-primary-school-7419757" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/education/edinburgh-primary-school-in-the-running-to-be-named-uk-best-primary-school-7419757</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383888 Fri, 17 Apr 2026 08:49:46 +0000 pringlis 383888@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>TRO Sub-Committee meeting where a decision will be made has been brought forward to May 12th. <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=645&amp;MId=7799" rel="nofollow">https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=645&amp;MId=7799</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383826 Wed, 08 Apr 2026 11:00:00 +0000 neddie 383826@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote> when someone suggested polling every household on the Braid Estate. I wanted to ask whether they'd include responses from the children - can you imagine a single child living on the Braid Estate who'd vote to reintroduce through traffic?</blockquote></p> <p>Asking these kind of questions only normalises the idea that consultations are referendums. “We” need to ram home the point that they are not! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383823 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:23:31 +0000 EdinburghCycleCam 383823@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>&gt; Are the 20mph limits ever policed?</p> <p>Basically no. A couple of years back, I got fed up with all the speeding in Holyrood Park and reported someone who was doing 55 mph (based on distance over time). The police said that they can't use video footage to issue speeding fines (which I'm pretty sure if a lie) and if I have an issue with speeding, I should report every instance of it to 101 so they can build up a pattern, and MAYBE if they get enough complaints they'll send officers to check on speeds.</p> <p>Fine in theory, but 101 usually has a 30+ minute wait, and I'm not sitting on hold for an hour a day to report the speeding I see every morning and evening.</p> <p>And surprisingly, drivers tend not to do 3x the speed limit when there's a marked police car parked up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383822 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:22:49 +0000 pringlis 383822@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>Are the 20mph limits ever policed?</blockquote></p> <p>Police are rarely out, and when they are it's as a deterrent - they stand in high vis holding a camera so people slow down, they don't actively try and catch people.</p> <p>The council have started rolling out "measures" in streets where monitoring shows that the average speed is over iirc 24mph. It's a poor effort though, if you ask me. Very little physical infrastructure, and mostly consists of installing sockets for vehicle activated speed signs (the ones that show your speed and encourage you to slow down) but they intend to just rotate a few signs around the different sites rather than have them permanently there. </p> <p>I'm at the Blackford Pond end of Cluny Gardens where the average speed was found to be in excess of 25mph which is meant to trigger action, but they've told me not to expect anything this year. I'm thinking of crowdfunding a speed sign with neighbours and offering it to the council to install! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383821 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:16:07 +0000 Frenchy 383821@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Are the 20mph limits ever policed?</em></p> <p>I seem to remember someone saying they'd seen a police speed camera van in Holyrood Park. Whether they were actually stopping anyone, or just hoping that the occasional presence of the van helped, I have no idea. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383820 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 13:42:47 +0000 ejstubbs 383820@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>I have witnessed that frustration, and on Hermitage Drive</blockquote></p> <p>Midmar Drive is a bit too steep, windy and with poor sightlines for southbound drivers to attempt an overtake there, but I've lost count of the number who have stormed past me on Hermitage Drive when I've been sticking within the 20mph limit.</p> <p>Are the 20mph limits <em>ever</em> policed? The 20mph street I live on is on favourite rat-run from Comiston Road to Oxgangs Road and vice versa. Far too many rat-runners seem to regard sticking to the 20mph limit as likely to negate any 'advantage' they may perceive themselves as getting by avoiding the Fairmilehead crossroads, so they don't bother. And don't get me started on the ones that also cut clean across the corner when turning in to Caiystane Terrace (also when turning into Caiystane Crescent, though fewer of them do it there for some reason.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383819 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 12:14:01 +0000 pringlis 383819@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hah, yes, I've given up trying to engage Paul on statistics. He just claims the data is flawed. </p> <p>I'm looking forward to Voi extending their zone to cover that part of the Quiet Route. Given how busy the current station at the north end of Midmar Drive is I'm willing to bet there'd be a lot more traffic when it extends south and covers Comiston/Greenbank/Oxgangs/Faimilehead/etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383818 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 11:42:02 +0000 bakky 383818@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The amount of insistence from the proprietors of that group, that council officers must be manipulating consultation responses, withholding information, lying about monitoring etc. is actually tragic. </p> <p>So incredibly convenient to be able to essentially say 'the facts don't agree with me, so they must be the facts'. </p> <p>What is the likelihood that the estate bucks the trends from the Edinburgh Walking and Cycling Index?</p> <p><a href="https://freeimage.host/i/B7dikfR"><img src="https://iili.io/B7dikfR.md.png"></a></p> <p><a href="https://freeimage.host/i/B723FEB"><img src="https://iili.io/B723FEB.md.png"></a></p> <p><a href="https://freeimage.host/i/B72oaI9"><img src="https://iili.io/B72oaI9.md.png"></a></p> <p>If the option to reopen Braid Rd only had the support of 47% of the people who responded to the consultation within the local area, does this not demonstrate to them they're not the majority by any stretch? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=22#post-383817 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 11:26:00 +0000 pringlis 383817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One thing I find fascinating if you read the Keep Morningside Moving group is how sure they are that the view to remove the scheme in its entirety is the majority one. Both amongst residents and the city at large. Yet it's the same 6-8 people posting and commenting on every post... </p> <p>I try not to engage but I almost got pulled in the other day when someone suggested polling every household on the Braid Estate. I wanted to ask whether they'd include responses from the children - can you imagine a single child living on the Braid Estate who'd vote to reintroduce through traffic? Even those living on Midmar Gardens would surely prefer a modal filter to be added there...</p> <p><blockquote>Any driver who finds it frustrating to drive along such streets might want to hand their licence back.<br /> </blockquote></p> <p>I have witnessed that frustration, and on Hermitage Drive, and it's purely from those who think that all streets should 1) have parking on both sides, 2) have free flowing traffic in two lanes at all times. i.e. who want to treat the roads as trunk roads/arterial routes and not residential streets. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383816 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 11:16:16 +0000 bakky 383816@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>(I have faith in the impotence of these groups. Who turned up at TEC, who wrote deputations, who were talking to officers and councillors ahead of the vote, in number? Where's the deputation from grumpy Paul up the road? They are observers, not do-ers. And they're too late - I hope) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383815 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 11:09:16 +0000 bakky 383815@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A little bit of devil's avocado from me, here;</p> <p>TRO Sub is quasi-judicial</p> <p>Officers have 'implied' there is not 'strong grounds' for removal at TRO Sub</p> <p>EEN and the weird wee men / motoring lobby can be as butthurt about this as they like, but the democratic executive committee responsible at the council has taken a vote to make it permanent. </p> <p>Is the rest not just noise? Yes, EEN and angry letters are going to make some impression on the councillors involved (even though in theory, quasi-judicial means objective and not open to lobbying). Their own biases will come along for the ride; but the process is, officers are going to recommend the route is made permanent and a new filter at Clinton Rd (possibly more if they're bold enough); so if there's not grounds in the objections, is there a big risk of this falling? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383813 Mon, 06 Apr 2026 15:01:27 +0000 chdot 383813@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“all because of a handful of drivers, versus the 1000s of parents and children who love the route”</p> <p>Probably </p> <p>But could be where the ‘silent majority’ lose out… </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383812 Mon, 06 Apr 2026 14:28:46 +0000 neddie 383812@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bit devoid of any facts or evidence, that article</p> <p>With the EEN manufacturing false controversy and false balance, all because of a handful of drivers, versus the 1000s of parents and children who love the route. </p> <p>Traffic on Midmar Gardens has increased from 5 cars per hour to 10. Still very low absolute figures, but a doubling as seen by residents</p> <p>Anyway, if your problem is too much traffic, the solution is more modal filters </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383810 Mon, 06 Apr 2026 11:11:40 +0000 Morningsider 383810@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, those famously narrow streets in the Braid estate, such as:</p> <p>Midmar Gardens: 8.5 metre wide carriageway<br /> Midmar Drive: 8.5 metere wide carriageway<br /> Midmar Avenue: 8.5 metre wide carriageway<br /> Hermitage Gardens: 8.5 metre wide carriageway</p> <p>Any driver who finds it frustrating to drive along such streets might want to hand their licence back. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383808 Mon, 06 Apr 2026 09:52:20 +0000 chdot 383808@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Unfortunately archive.ph has been ‘unreliable’ recently </p> <p>Original here (if you subscribe or are prepared to tick for cookies/sdverts)</p> <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-roads-decision-on-future-of-braid-estate-traffic-filters-must-not-be-whitewash-6563826" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-roads-decision-on-future-of-braid-estate-traffic-filters-must-not-be-whitewash-6563826</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383807 Mon, 06 Apr 2026 08:48:43 +0000 Stickman 383807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>Braid Estate Safety First, which represents residents of Midmar Gardens, Midmar Drive, Midmar Avenue and Hermitage Gardens, is unhappy with the current measures, claiming traffic is now worse across much of the area.</blockquote></p> <p><blockquote>He continued: “We disagree with the regularly used description of the current layout as ‘much-loved’. It is certainly not much-loved by a majority of the Braid estate, where it is the narrower streets that have become rat runs, speeds have increased to due driver frustration, and there are regular bumps between cars.</p> <p>“The reality for those of us living here is that, compared with pre-pandemic, traffic has increased everywhere in the Braid estate other that on the main, widest, straightest, traffic light controlled road – ie. Braid Avenue.”</blockquote></p> <p>Isn’t this claim at odds with the traffic monitoring?</p> <p><a href="https://archive.ph/qZogg" rel="nofollow">https://archive.ph/qZogg</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383787 Thu, 02 Apr 2026 21:20:50 +0000 chdot 383787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-roads-final-decision-on-braid-estate-traffic-measures-a-step-closer-as-committee-says-it-wants-to-provide-clarity-6557205" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-roads-final-decision-on-braid-estate-traffic-measures-a-step-closer-as-committee-says-it-wants-to-provide-clarity-6557205</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383786 Thu, 02 Apr 2026 21:05:13 +0000 bakky 383786@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I believe the wording in these reports is usually; notes the comments and objections, recommends setting them aside and making permanent. <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s95544/West%20Craigs%20Waiting%20Restrictions.pdf">Recent example here</a>.</p> <p>The issue that I see with TRO Sub - and I probably have a Travelling Safely areas debacle chip on my shoulder - is that it's Lang's (and to some degree, Osler's) place to grandstand and gotcha over officers in trying to make a case - essentially, grandiose concern-trolling.</p> <p>Officers have implied there is nothing substantial enough in the objections to warrant removal. So potentially this organ behaves itself.</p> <p>Some aspects I'm interested in;</p> <p>- Whether any public comment rules any particular participant out;</p> <p>— When the time window for comments on ETRO/21/29 ('South' before it was split into A (General South) B (Braid Rd) C (Comiston Rd) and D ('Da' Quiet Route)) was, i.e. which half-year were objections from; </p> <p>— There are 0 objections from the scheme-specific ETRO/21/29D as they were all carried forward from South; there are 13 general objections and 148 scheme-specific ones. We haven't managed to lay hands on all of them yet; they seem to have only been released partially;</p> <p>— Whether out of the objections there are, any of them pertain to aspects that don't exist or are outside of the ETRO. In particular, complaints about the junction at Hermitage Dr &amp; Braidburn Ter, which isn't in the scope of the ETRO (waiting for confirmation) but is a source of contention for those who enjoy both roasting and mini-roundabouts. If they don't mention the Braid Rd planter or access to Braid Rd, it's not relevant to the quiet route - and the junction here was very likely reconfigured with parallel crossings etc _after_ the ETRO objection window so is completely different now anyway following road safety works on Braidburn Ter that saw it modernised.</p> <p>- Whether officers can be encouraged to include the 'Enhanced Option 1' items (rotation of Braid Avenue filter and additional Braid Rd filter near northern end) as recommendations in report to TRO Sub. These would either plug LTN leaks, or at the very least give the antis something to focus on and shoot down;</p> <p>— Whether there will be any new monitoring data, estimates of impact if removed, etc to bring the case for the quiet route up to date. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383785 Thu, 02 Apr 2026 20:36:32 +0000 pringlis 383785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I know the TRO Sub Committee isn't meant to be whipped, but I thought it interesting to note the party makeup.</p> <p>2 Labour<br /> 2 SNP<br /> 2 Lib Dem<br /> 2 Green, 1 of whom who the Council website lists as independent but joined the Greens in December which I wasn't actually aware of. <a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-independent-councillor-ross-mckenzie-joins-greens-5432908?utm_social_post_id=618003816&amp;utm_social_handle_id=34580330" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-independent-councillor-ross-mckenzie-joins-greens-5432908?utm_social_post_id=618003816&amp;utm_social_handle_id=34580330</a><br /> 1 Conservative</p> <p>5 votes for a majority. Presumably SNP and Greens are a definite Retain, and then I'd hope at least one Labour would go with their Labour colleagues on the Transport Committee's vote. Do officers make a recommendation for the TRO Sub Committee group too? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383784 Thu, 02 Apr 2026 19:05:56 +0000 Stickman 383784@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Councillor Ben Parker’s comments: </p> <p><a href="https://cllrbenparker.substack.com/p/update-6-greenbank-meadows-quiet" rel="nofollow">https://cllrbenparker.substack.com/p/update-6-greenbank-meadows-quiet</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383783 Thu, 02 Apr 2026 17:45:41 +0000 Stickman 383783@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Didn’t he pull out of the meeting on the Corstorphine LTN after similar comments? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383782 Thu, 02 Apr 2026 17:18:31 +0000 bakky 383782@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Lib Dem and Tory alliance defeated 7-4 at TEC; Quiet Route ETRO/21/29D will go to TRO Sub to be made permanent. </p> <p>Does the following public statement calling the route ‘controversial’ rule Mr. Lang out from participating?</p> <p><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BsIuclWTEr1JlfWCbVNa1n6bfR62-Axs_osgLOqLwlk/edit?usp=drivesdk" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BsIuclWTEr1JlfWCbVNa1n6bfR62-Axs_osgLOqLwlk/edit?usp=drivesdk</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383772 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 16:17:34 +0000 bakky 383772@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Arellcat I have never had any further contact from them; but through the process of trying to chase up their existence after the morning no-show, I did end up with the email addresses for both the Midlothian Active Travel team lead and his deputy, if anyone wants to noise them up! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383771 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 16:04:01 +0000 Arellcat 383771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>and the impact of increased traffic arising from residential development in Midlothian on the Edinburgh road network</em></p> <p>Well, this is Midlothian you're talking about. We peaked by converting the Edinburgh, Loanhead and Roslin Railway to walking and cycling, and we've done nothing since other than a bit of resurfacing on the route between Rosewell and Penicuik. Midlothian has essentially done absolutely nothing meaningful to improve active travel options into Edinburgh, especially along the A702/A703 and A701, or even enncourage greater active travel uptake.</p> <p>It might have been a CEC-led thing but not only did the AECOM staff not turn up to the A702-and-beyond morning travel survey back in November, the AECOM rep who did turn up in the evening never replied to me for further data gathering. @bakky, did he reply to you?</p> <p><em>with any measures to be constructed with permanent and suitable infrastructure.</em></p> <p>Ah yes, the famous wish list that keeps consultants well paid for years. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383770 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 15:51:51 +0000 bakky 383770@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>If after this they'd like to divert their energies into campaigning for a dedicated park and ride that serves the A702 that is something I'd support!</blockquote></p> <p>100%. This would do far more for the congestion on the route than any other currently available option - especially if paired with an eventual congestion charge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383769 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 15:48:56 +0000 bakky 383769@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ooops missed the other update posts, should have refreshed first! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383768 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 15:46:13 +0000 pringlis 383768@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>the absence of a dedicated park and ride facility on this route;<br /> </blockquote></p> <p>If after this they'd like to divert their energies into campaigning for a dedicated park and ride that serves the A702 that is something I'd support! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383767 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 15:46:00 +0000 bakky 383767@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Amendments to the <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/b27834/Late%20Reports%2002nd-Apr-2026%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=9">Late Report</a> have been published;</p> <p>- Conservatives (2 votes): Support <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/b27879/Motions%20and%20Amendments%2002nd-Apr-2026%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=9#page=33">Option A (p33)</a> (quelle surprise)</p> <p>- Lib Dems (2 votes): Support <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/b27879/Motions%20and%20Amendments%2002nd-Apr-2026%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=9#page=31">Option B (p31)</a></p> <p>- Greens (2 votes): Support <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/b27879/Motions%20and%20Amendments%2002nd-Apr-2026%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=9#page=32">Option C (p32)</a></p> <p>- SNP (3 votes): Rumoured to support Option C </p> <p>- Labour (2 votes, Convening): <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/b27879/Motions%20and%20Amendments%2002nd-Apr-2026%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=9#page=30">Amendment (p30)</a> does not express support for a particular option, but instead says if TRO Sub make the north end of the route permanent, the promised filter for Clinton Rd that would have come with the new ETRO will be implemented. </p> <p>So - this will come down to how the administration looks to vote on this matter. Rumoured to support Option C. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20337&page=21#post-383766 Wed, 01 Apr 2026 15:33:00 +0000 chdot 383766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Almost comical</p> <p>“</p> <p>instructs the Corporate Director of Place to bring forward a report to a future meeting of this Committee on the longer-term transport needs of the Greenbank to Meadows corridor, </p> <p>“</p> <p>Ok</p> <p>“</p> <p>taking into account: the experience and evidence gathered during the trial scheme; the views expressed by residents through the representations process; </p> <p>“</p> <p>I.e ‘the ones who didn’t like it</p> <p>“</p> <p>the transport and road safety needs of the wider A702 corridor in south Edinburgh; </p> <p>the absence of a dedicated park and ride facility on this route; </p> <p>and the impact of increased traffic arising from residential development in Midlothian on the Edinburgh road network; with a view to informing any future decisions on changes to the road layout in this area </p> <p>“</p> <p>Long report then tying up officials for years…</p> <p>“</p> <p>with any measures to be constructed with permanent and suitable infrastructure.</p> <p>“</p> <p>More things they can complain about </p>