http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: ‘15 minute city’ or ‘20-minute neighbourhood’? en Sun, 31 May 2026 05:27:14 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-381644 Mon, 20 Oct 2025 11:44:59 +0000 chdot 381644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>It is set to be built with a “20-minute city” model in mind, with many important amenities like shops and schools within a 20-minute walking round trip for residents. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/massive-new-edinburgh-development-asks-32682556?l" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/massive-new-edinburgh-development-asks-32682556?l</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-377736 Tue, 10 Dec 2024 17:37:35 +0000 chdot 377736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well well</p> <p>“</p> <p>Shrubhill House is a 30-minute walk to campus and even less to the historic city centre. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.unitestudents.com/student-accommodation/edinburgh/shrubhill-house" rel="nofollow">https://www.unitestudents.com/student-accommodation/edinburgh/shrubhill-house</a></p> <p>“</p> <p>A ghost of the building’s name persists over the entrance to the former Council Social Work Department </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/shrubhill-house-–-fond-farewell" rel="nofollow">https://broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/shrubhill-house-–-fond-farewell</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-377734 Tue, 10 Dec 2024 17:07:19 +0000 Rob 377734@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>20 minute neighbourhoods being implemented/expanded around Leith with no apparent controversy whatsoever. Dense development of brown field sites with ground floor retail - Salamander Street, Anderson Place, former Leith Walk Industrial Estate, Ocean Terminal, former whatever-the-heck-this-was <a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/2U8JxqM2SaHeozeP6" rel="nofollow">https://maps.app.goo.gl/2U8JxqM2SaHeozeP6</a> (Leith Walk Sainsbury's). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-377732 Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:05:26 +0000 chdot 377732@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/10/the-five-minute-city-inside-denmarks-revolutionary-neighbourhoodI’m" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/10/the-five-minute-city-inside-denmarks-revolutionary-neighbourhoodI’m</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374462 Sun, 14 Apr 2024 22:21:08 +0000 the canuck 374462@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, it is international, but it does seem more prevalent in the English-speaking world. :(<br /> Or else my friends in non-English countries are managing to dodge this nonsense, lucky things... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374446 Sun, 14 Apr 2024 08:52:14 +0000 SF 374446@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Canuck...Unfortunately not limited to the English speaking world, I've heard it spoken about on Spain's national radio broadcaster. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374444 Sat, 13 Apr 2024 22:02:06 +0000 gembo 374444@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>People can be very stupid if they want to be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374443 Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:17:28 +0000 the canuck 374443@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The fear of the 15 minute city is definitely spread by spewing from teh American right, where suggesting that people shouldn't go bankrupt after breaking an arm can get you branded a Marx-lovely terrorist.<br /> I think there's some evidence that this sort of paranoia being in English makes other English-speaking countries susceptible to it in a way that other language-speakers won't be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374399 Sat, 06 Apr 2024 08:09:21 +0000 chdot 374399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Previously </p> <p>“</p> <p>So where did the fear come from? Many of the UK conspiracy theorists highlight that these “un-British” ideas of urban walkability emanate from France, so they must be distrusted on principle. Worse than that, they point out, the ideology has been driven by a bearded Colombian scientist with radical roots. The ideas had been around since the 1920s, but the 15-minute city phrase was coined by Carlos Moreno, esteemed professor at the Panthéon-Sorbonne in Paris, who was once a member of a leftwing guerrilla group in the 1970s. And now he’s coming for your cars.</p> <p>“Their lies are enormous,” Moreno said in a recent interview , describing some of the claims made by his critics. “You will be locked in your neighbourhood; cameras will signal who can go out; if your mother lives in another neighbourhood, you will have to ask for permission to see her, and so on,” adding that they “sometimes post pictures of concentration camps.”</p> <p>Moreno first promoted his concept of la ville du quart d’heure in 2016, but it gained international attention when the mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, adopted it as part of her re-election campaign in 2020. She promised she would close off roads and turn them into public plazas, plant more trees and turn schools into the “capitals of the neighbourhood”, open to everyone for sports and recreation in evenings and at weekends.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/16/15-minute-city-planning-theory-conspiracists" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/16/15-minute-city-planning-theory-conspiracists</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374397 Sat, 06 Apr 2024 07:21:14 +0000 chdot 374397@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Carlos Moreno, a jovial and owlish professor at the Sorbonne University, came up with the phrase “15-minute cities” and has been quietly getting on setting them up in Paris. He has a bemused air when asked about how his modest proposal for a more enjoyable urban life has caused such vile conspiracy theories, and takes it all in good humour despite the death threats and other abuse he has received.</p> <p>Moreno says: “We don’t have the conspiracy mongers, because it is impossible to say in Paris that Moreno wants to create a new Paris lockdown. This is impossible to say that I am Pol Pot or that I am Stalin – because we live in Paris, I can invite guests to visit me and they see this is impossible.</p> <p>“We have created a lot of new districts and they have been popular. The opposition in Paris is not the same that you have in the UK, because nobody can say in Paris we want to create an open jail – this is evident that it is not the case. We have beautiful new green spaces and areas to live.”</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-374249 Mon, 25 Mar 2024 13:21:53 +0000 chdot 374249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>But now anyone who promotes what we had thought had become mainstream common sense transport policies risks being demonised as being part of the car hating and sinister mob. Would someone please explain to me why the concept of 15 minute cities has been described by none other than the Secretary of State for Transport, Mark Harper in this way? Being able to access work, leisure and shops easily without having to drive by car was always seen as a desired holy grail by transport planners. </p> <p>Now it's 'big brother' local authorities telling us where and when we go Soviet style. In my view this has crossed a line. If I were working as a civil servant or in one of the Government's transport agencies I would not hesitate to call him out for it. Its fine to have legitimate debates about ownership and control and the merits of HS2, but to resort to fabricated rhetoric that you would associate with Putin or Trump is unacceptable and not something we should have any truck with in our country. The comments were made some six months ago, but I'm still incensed by them. </p> <p>…</p> <p>The toxicity around paying for road use and cutting pollution will mean that we are unlikely to experience the radical shift in transport policy associated with the last time Labour replaced a Conservative Government. It's harder to win consensus for any measure which increases motoring costs during a cost-of-living crisis, although ironically there is not the same backlash when public transport fares go up. This explains why you have to go back 13 years for the last increase in fuel duty and why politicians are like a rabbit caught in a car headlight when it comes to discussing how we pay for roads when the road fleet is electrified. Labour needs to set up both a cross-party commission and a Citizens Jury to look at the options.</p> <p>There has been much talk following the budget about the £40 billion funding gap if National Insurance is to be abolished. Why no focus on the £40 billion revenue lost when fuel duty goes? Many people argue that this funding gap will force a future government to act and introduce a new tax/charge on road use. If this Government is anything to go by, then I wouldn't bet on it. They have boxed themselves into being the motorist's friend regardless of the financial, social and environmental consequences. If we don't replace fuel duty, then the projected growth in traffic will double. The congestion associated with this makes it anti motorist in my book. And what about the equity implications of people on low incomes paying for road infrastructure and not owning a car?</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.transporttimes.co.uk/news.php/What-is-the-strategy-for-transport-715" rel="nofollow">https://www.transporttimes.co.uk/news.php/What-is-the-strategy-for-transport-715</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-372837 Fri, 12 Jan 2024 01:36:05 +0000 chdot 372837@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburghs-biggest-single-housing-development-for-years-would-create-new-7000-home-20-minute-neighbourhood-near-airport-4473530" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburghs-biggest-single-housing-development-for-years-would-create-new-7000-home-20-minute-neighbourhood-near-airport-4473530</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-372809 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:26:03 +0000 Yodhrin 372809@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think in this case it's simpler than that: the murderer is already inside the house, ie the Tory MPs themselves are crazy effin' loons who genuinely buy into this nonsense. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-372792 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:23:05 +0000 chdot 372792@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ejstubbs</p> <p>“One also might wonder why they are keeping it secret if they actually think the policy will appeal to the electorate?”</p> <p>BIG promise in manifesto/election campaign?</p> <p>(This article may have stopped it??) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=5#post-372790 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:56:54 +0000 Morningsider 372790@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just shows you what the current Tory party really thinks of their own voters. They expect people to believe:</p> <p>a. that a cabal of global leaders and billionaires want to prevent people from travelling outside their local area by means of strategically placed flowerpots and bollards; and<br /> b. Rishi Sunak, UK Prime Minister and billionaire, is just the guy to stop this happening. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372789 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:55:07 +0000 ejstubbs 372789@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One also might wonder why they are keeping it secret if they actually think the policy will appeal to the electorate? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372788 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:53:56 +0000 chdot 372788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Shocking but no surprise -</p> <p>“</p> <p>Ministers began considering curbs on cycling and walking schemes in March last year, one document said, “in response to concerns about 15-minute cities”, an urban planning concept that Rishi Sunak’s government has repeatedly mischaracterised.</p> <p>“</p> <p>And worse -</p> <p>“</p> <p>In his speech to the Conservative conference in October, Mark Harper, the transport secretary, described 15-minutes cities as schemes in which “local councils can decide how often you go to the shops”, which was incorrect and is something that has never been proposed in the UK.</p> <p>“</p> <p>Any chance similar thoughts/proposals are happening ‘behind the scenes’ in Scotland?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372787 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:17:33 +0000 ejstubbs 372787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/10/shift-from-15-minute-cities-in-england-partly-due-to-conspiracy-theories">Ministers prioritised driving in England partly due to conspiracy theories</a></p> <p><blockquote>Ministers decided to prioritise driving over active travel because of worries among ministers about “15-minute cities”, documents seen by the Guardian show.</p> <p>They indicate that a significant shift in transport policy was guided at least in part by conspiracy theories.</p> <p>Ministers began considering curbs on cycling and walking schemes in March this year, one document said, “in response to concerns about 15-minute cities”, an urban planning concept that Rishi Sunak’s government has repeatedly mischaracterised.</p> <p>Other policy papers, uncovered as part of a legal challenge by the Transport Action Network (TAN), show officials warned ministers that a parallel crackdown on low traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) was likely to be legally “challenging”.</p> <p><strong>Another document advised ministers they should drop plans to improve active travel “quietly”, adding: “We would not propose to make any public announcement to this effect.”</strong></blockquote></p> <p>Secret policy U turns based on the ravings of deluded whackjobs. No change there, then? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372594 Fri, 29 Dec 2023 18:59:28 +0000 LaidBack 372594@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Canadians and e-bikes / cargo bikes.</p> <p>Toronto has built a 60km of infra although huge gaps. Posted by Curbside Cycles - very Euro oriented shop.<br /> E-bikes there limited to 32kmph. Same models and power as here mainly.</p> <p>Sorry long url!</p> <p><a href="https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/many-torontonians-are-parking-their-cars-in-favour-of-bikes-heres-why/article_01ba9b1a-a5bc-11ee-a5c4-8fb39569a84c.html?fbclid=PAAabHJjepEM-RMYp5VL8BkTPdjKP2U7T77TQFcN2TuJ1S0h1aAuielFouNRY" rel="nofollow">https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/many-torontonians-are-parking-their-cars-in-favour-of-bikes-heres-why/article_01ba9b1a-a5bc-11ee-a5c4-8fb39569a84c.html?fbclid=PAAabHJjepEM-RMYp5VL8BkTPdjKP2U7T77TQFcN2TuJ1S0h1aAuielFouNRY</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372423 Thu, 21 Dec 2023 10:49:00 +0000 chdot 372423@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>My conclusion can be summarised in five words: ‘Get People out and about!”. It can be expanded slightly to say ‘if you create places, neighbourhoods, town centres that are pleasant for people to walk, browse, cycle, play, enjoy arts, or to simply be in, then the amenities will follow, the businesses will reopen, the connections will be made, communities will be solidified and joy will return. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://peopleandplaces.scot/creating-towns-people-claire-daly-sustrans-scotland/" rel="nofollow">https://peopleandplaces.scot/creating-towns-people-claire-daly-sustrans-scotland/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372170 Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:59:29 +0000 gembo 372170@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Spotted hilarious LEZ sign once you leave The Pleasance, watch as you will be in the LEZ Tiny and hard to spot. Sign about same size as Zone </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-372166 Mon, 11 Dec 2023 12:13:09 +0000 chdot 372166@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/09/tories-shelve-pledge-for-everyone-in-uk-to-live-15-minutes-from-a-green-space" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/09/tories-shelve-pledge-for-everyone-in-uk-to-live-15-minutes-from-a-green-space</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371866 Wed, 22 Nov 2023 14:37:19 +0000 chdot 371866@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Welcome to Shawfair, a new community in Midlothian situated just a 15-minute train ride away from Edinburgh Waverley Rail Station. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.shawfairconsultation.co.uk" rel="nofollow">https://www.shawfairconsultation.co.uk</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371389 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 11:24:04 +0000 Arellcat 371389@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This sounds like so much boilerplate.</p> <p><blockquote>The <code>new generic housing and/or mixed amenity development</code> is a really exciting project which provides an amazing opportunity to create a <code>thing</code> to replace the existing <code>thing</code>. This means public services can be co-located with links to active travel networks, green infrastructure and public transport networks.</blockquote></p> <p><em>What active travel network?</em></p> <p>Ah, that'll be the ones that they're <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21365#post-370402">supposed to build but haven't yet</a>.</p> <p>The footway along Millerhill Road is also terrible, but it's also the only safe cycling route between Shawfair and Hilltown.</p> <p><a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/WALpEew71w5YrKip9" rel="nofollow">https://maps.app.goo.gl/WALpEew71w5YrKip9</a></p> <p>Google <a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/oASkeGp4uQiaQDN69">seems to think there is another</a>, but I am not convinced. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371388 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:39:10 +0000 neddie 371388@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aye, I dinnae fancy the pavements on Kingston Avenue much</p> <p><a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/UkFW8zeofpb4Nt9w6" rel="nofollow">https://maps.app.goo.gl/UkFW8zeofpb4Nt9w6</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371387 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:29:28 +0000 Morningsider 371387@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie - they mean pavements. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371386 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:11:10 +0000 neddie 371386@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What active travel network? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371384 Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:44:43 +0000 chdot 371384@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>“The Liberton Community Campus is a really exciting project which provides an amazing opportunity to create a community lifelong learning and sports hub to replace the existing school. This means public services can be co-located with links to active travel networks, green infrastructure and public transport networks.”</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-schools-construction-begins-on-liberton-high-school-set-to-open-in-2026-4390867" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-schools-construction-begins-on-liberton-high-school-set-to-open-in-2026-4390867</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371234 Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:32:01 +0000 chdot 371234@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So for some people it won’t be ‘locked in my house/neighbourhood’, it’ll be ‘might have to move somewhere else’ (NOT because of the <em>idea</em> of improving access to services, reducing traffic etc.)</p> <p>“</p> <p>In Bristol, for example, the number of low-income households living in privately rented homes in the inner city fell by 38% during the period. Glasgow saw a reduction of just over 20%, while London, Sheffield and Liverpool all saw reductions of more than 10%.</p> <p>…</p> <p>“We need to examine the impacts this has on the welfare of poorer households as they are pushed to locations which tend to have worse public transport and worse access to jobs and vital services. But we also need to be asking whether this is the kind of city we wish to create – one marked by deepening spatial divisions between richer and poorer.”</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/23/high-rents-and-benefit-cuts-push-poorer-renters-out-of-uks-cities-report-findsI" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/23/high-rents-and-benefit-cuts-push-poorer-renters-out-of-uks-cities-report-findsI</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20604&page=4#post-371030 Fri, 06 Oct 2023 21:31:42 +0000 chdot 371030@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>The Tories say 15-minute cities are sinister. That’s nonsense – here’s the truth</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/05/tories-15-minute-cities-sinister-rishi-sunak-motorists-woke" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/05/tories-15-minute-cities-sinister-rishi-sunak-motorists-woke</a> </p>