http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: 100 years ago (approx.) en Wed, 17 Jun 2026 05:51:45 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-27105 Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:46:40 +0000 chdot 27105@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I always feel quite sorry for the designers of the Forth Road Bridge"</p> <p>Does that include the ones who designed the non-replaceable cable system? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-27103 Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:42:22 +0000 Smudge 27103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I always feel quite sorry for the designers of the Forth Road Bridge, no matter how spectacular and well designed it was, even if they'd painted it pink and added neon lights and lace trimmings it was always going to be the bridge next to the Forth (Rail) Bridge, bit of a shame for them really. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-27091 Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:21:05 +0000 chdot 27091@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Grave-honour-for-rail-driver.6736273.jp" rel="nofollow">http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Grave-honour-for-rail-driver.6736273.jp</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22432 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:20:28 +0000 ruggtomcat 22432@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I kinda did the opposite of what you suggested, left from Porty and followed the NCN 1 &amp; 73 until I hit Rosewell then across the gorge (closed to cars, massive subsidence, pretty fun on a bike too.) to Rosslyn and then on to the viaduct (its seemed easier for me to find it that way). Quick sandwich and home via TBC. Quite proud of my figures today, all the zone 2 discipline is paying off. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22431 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:57:49 +0000 kaputnik 22431@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>he built the viaduct that was there beforehand that had to be taken down due to ground movements from the mining.</em></p> <p>Ahhhhh. Thanks for correction, you are indeed right - I must get with the times! 1892 much too late for Bouch. It does at least "look" like one of his girder / latticework contraptions.</p> <p>If you ended up going down the Penicuik railway path, he did at least design the bowstring girder bridge at Auchendinny, it's visually appealing but not much to note from an engineering point of view. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22429 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:17:38 +0000 ruggtomcat 22429@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>what a lovely ride. I agree with chdot its a wonderfull viaduct but Im afraid it was not built by Bouch, at least not according to the plaque beside it. He built the viaduct that was there <em>beforehand</em> that had to be taken down due to ground movements from the mining. The plaque also mentions the infamous <a href="http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/poems/pgdisaster.htm">bridge of Tay.</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22405 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:57:26 +0000 ruggtomcat 22405@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thank you! I think im gonna pop by the bike station and get a complete set of spokes maps :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22403 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:47:12 +0000 kaputnik 22403@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Forth bridge</em></p> <p>The Scotsman / EEN journalists seem to have no appreciation of heritage. There's one Forth Bridge and one Forth Road Bridge. One has been there for so long it doesn't need to qualify what sort of vehicles cross it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22401 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:44:34 +0000 kaputnik 22401@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>RTC - when you get to the "junction" just before the viaduct (when approaching from LoanHead), make sure youbreak off right and have a wee explore around the old sidings.</p> <p>If you've got a few hours time and don't mind a bit of mud, would recommend pushing on to Penicuik then coming back the cycle track through Dalkeith to Whitecraig - you can then either head back from there or press on to Musselburgh. Route 73, signed from <a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=penicuik&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Penicuik,+Midlothian,+United+Kingdom&amp;ll=55.823997,-3.221655&amp;spn=0.015766,0.10952&amp;z=14&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=55.824015,-3.221668&amp;panoid=gIETe4x0XSLWSuB8bhqFcQ&amp;cbp=11,158.49,,0,3.8">here</a>. Sign on lampost at right, head left down the hill. Can't get lost when you're on it, take the right fork when you get into Dalkeith (left will take you out at Sherrifhall Roundabout)</p> <p>It's tarmac surface from Rosewell all the way pretty much. Nice vistas, a few nice viaducts and ruined old stations. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22399 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:39:28 +0000 cb 22399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And, as if by magic, the Scotsman has this on its website today:</p> <p><a href="http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Engineer-reveals-plan-to-strengthen.6703882.jp">Engineer reveals plan to strengthen Forth bridge for £200m</a></p> <p>(They mean the road bridge). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22398 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:34:45 +0000 ruggtomcat 22398@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, thanks for the map, I know where im going today :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22390 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:07:29 +0000 PS 22390@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I used the cyclepath that goes over Bilston Viaduct last autumn as a means of getting to Roslin Glen without going along the 701. It was okay, but like you say lots of dog walkers and the occasional dog egg (and horse for that matter). A lot of leaf litter too, which soon caused a racket under my mudguards... Probably best left til the summer.</p> <p>I didn't realise the viaduct was worth a look. Will have to stop next time.</p> <p>The Forth Bridge is massively over-engineered, probably as a direct result of the Tay Bridge. I really wouldn't fancy a train ride on a suspension bridge over a breezy Forth though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22387 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:36:07 +0000 recombodna 22387@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That doesn't surprise me. What were the exceptions? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22386 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:35:03 +0000 chdot 22386@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Looks like some good exploration opportunity around Burghlee Bing"</p> <p>That used to be necessary when the bridge was completely closed for renovation (199?).</p> <p><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=Bilston,+Roslin,+United+Kingdom&amp;aq=2&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=31.784549,72.597656&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Bilston,+Roslin,+Midlothian,+United+Kingdom&amp;ll=55.871338,-3.150748&amp;spn=0.002745,0.008862&amp;t=h&amp;z=17">BGV on Google Maps</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22385 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:31:47 +0000 cb 22385@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Having recently finished reading a Telford biography it's fairly clear that, with a few exceptions, engineering projects have always run over time and budget. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22384 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:31:12 +0000 recombodna 22384@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'But fewer people would die.'</p> <p>Fair point. They reckon 63 people died during the seven year construction period. Mostly from falls from height. Quite a tally!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22381 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:17:33 +0000 kaputnik 22381@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>now a cycle route which is not (yet) adequately connected to Edinburgh.</em></p> <p>Yeah I had quite a bit of trouble finding a way on to it, and then had to navigate around all the dog t*rds. Looks like some good exploration opportunity around Burghlee Bing also, but wasn't adequately prepared for it so just made a mental note to return some time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22380 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:17:23 +0000 chdot 22380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"It would take them twice as long to build that bridge these days"</p> <p>But fewer people would die. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22379 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:15:25 +0000 recombodna 22379@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Work started on building the Forth Bridge in 1883 and was officially completed in 1890."</p> <p> It would take them twice as long to build that bridge these days......and it come in over budget. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22378 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:12:47 +0000 chdot 22378@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The spectacular (if a bit more diminutive) Bilston Viaduct in our own back yard."</p> <p>Hadn't realised that was one of his. </p> <p>Absolutely a 'MUST visit' - now a cycle route which is not (yet) adequately connected to Edinburgh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22377 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:07:32 +0000 kaputnik 22377@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>It's possible to consider Bouch 'unlucky' as the Tay Bridge fell over when a gale pressed on a train crossing it. </em></p> <p>That and it was badly designed, badly built and even more badly maintained... But you're right, if it had collapsed without the significant loss of life, it would probably have been a case of "stick the missing bit back on", bolt on a few reinforcing bits of iron and carry on with operations and consider it a lesson to be learned in the next bridge.</p> <p>After just re-reading the Lighthouse Stevensons, demonstrates your point about the lack of formal education of many contemporary engineers. Robert S was more fortunate in his assumptions than Thomas B. Of course most people don't remember the hundreds of bridges Bouch built that are still standing. The spectacular (if a bit more diminutive) Bilston Viaduct in our own back yard.</p> <p><em>Even in the late 20th C. with hindsight and computers</em></p> <p>And classic case of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse ">Hyatt Regency Skywalk collapse</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112&page=2#post-22376 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:04:00 +0000 chdot 22376@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Then again there's that bridge opened in 1964 that is about to be 'replaced' because there is a possibility that it can't be repaired. </p> <p>I remember reading something from the 70s saying that the main cable couldn't be replaced because of the way the bridge had been constructed - notably the the way the cables were anchored at each end. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22373 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:51:28 +0000 chdot 22373@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> He lacked the formal qualification, scientific and mathematical know-how and the knowledge of metallurgy and project management.</p> <p>"</p> <p>That's quite a long list of 'lacks'!</p> <p>Many 18/19th century engineers/innovators had surprisingly little 'schooling' and were often pioneering in fields where they were making it - not just making it up. </p> <p>It's possible to consider Bouch 'unlucky' as the Tay Bridge fell over when a gale pressed on a train crossing it. Clearly such a thing ought to have been anticipitated/calculated for. </p> <p>By contrast the magnificent Forth Bridge is <em>massively</em> over-engineered. </p> <p>Even in the late 20th C. with hindsight and computers, there was the Millennium Bridge by Tate Modern (and something similar in Glasgow!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22371 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:06 +0000 kaputnik 22371@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bouch's design for the Forth Bridge looks terrifying. I can't find a picture online but I've seen sketches of the design in books. Indeed it was a single-line suspension bridge with none of the elegance and solidity of Fowler and Baker's design.</p> <p>According to "The High Girders" (great read about the first Tay Bridge) they got as far as beginning to construct one of the concrete piers on Inchgarvie before the NBR got cold feet and called the whole thing off after the Tay Bridge disaster. </p> <p>The High Girders makes him out to be a seasoned and practical engineer but from an earlier school of "make it up as you go along, learn on the job" sorts, who overplayed his hand and abilities with the Tay Bridge. He lacked the formal qualification, scientific and mathematical know-how and the knowledge of metallurgy and project management. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22368 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:21:47 +0000 chdot 22368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Work started on building the Forth Bridge in 1883 and was officially completed in 1890. The present bridge was designed by John Fowler and Benjamin Baker and replaced the initial design by Thomas Bouch. Work on Bouch's Forth Bridge was stopped when his Tay Bridge collapsed in December, 1879 with the loss of 75 lives."</p> <p><a href="http://www.forthbridgememorial.org/bridge.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.forthbridgememorial.org/bridge.htm</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22366 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:11:16 +0000 PS 22366@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Portobello Pier was designed by Thomas Bouch</em></p> <p>Entirely off-topic, but coincidentally I was just reading about Bouch in another book last night. Born in Thursby near Carlisle. His health deteriorated rapidly after the Tay Bridge disaster and he died in Moffat the following year. </p> <p>I think he lived in Edinburgh and had designed the Forth (Rail) Bridge as a suspension bridge, but the Tay Bridge collapse put paid to that... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22336 Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:54:52 +0000 SRD 22336@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>what a lovely looking bike. Striking also that it is still recognizable, and even still usable as a 'normal' bike. No planned obsolescence there, just good design. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22299 Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:19:41 +0000 chdot 22299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"what general sort of diameter were general sorts of tyre?"</p> <p>26" or 28"<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/75395133@N00/3971781453/in/photostream/"><br /> <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/3971781453_317d53107b_z.jpg"></a></p> <p>Might find more info here -</p> <p><a href="http://www.thewheelmen.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.thewheelmen.org</a> ("1918 or earlier") </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22297 Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:11:11 +0000 wingpig 22297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wonder what counted as a 'good' surface back then? Of what general sort of diameter were general sorts of tyre? What pressures were generally available to the average wheelman? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2112#post-22294 Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:06:24 +0000 kaputnik 22294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>We could get Kaputnik to do the cover... </em></p> <p>Will happily illustrate for some of that fabulous PY parsnip cake... </p>