http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: “Edinburgh city centre Future of Princes Street and George Street up for debate” en Fri, 19 Jun 2026 09:11:38 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-384727 Tue, 16 Jun 2026 11:13:35 +0000 Tulyar 384727@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I documented the delivery of Edinburgh Tram on street section from Haymarket to Waverley and compared notes with those reviewing the delivery of contemporary work in Blackpool (the extension to the South &amp; new Squires Gate depot) Plus the steady rolling programme of extensions to Manchester Metrolink, including the Airport extension - delivered ahead of time and on budget<br /> In 1999, working with ORR and based on my experience on pavement construction, with embedded rails I helped to revise the standards from 1870 Tramways Act, to deal with the problems that had plagued the 4 early 2nd generation tram systems in Manchester, Croydon, Sheffield, and Birmingham. All had big problems with rails coming loose plus the notorious Roe vs Supertram case. This saw a much improved system used in Nottingham which has lasted well for over 20 years<br /> Sadly Edinburgh's contractors/project managers failed abysmally in how they built the Phase 1 track between Haymarket and Waverley (South St Andrew Street) with many details that ORR inspectors remarked on as poorly delivered, and I've highlighted to <strong>BroughtonSpurtle</strong> &amp; <strong>Arellcat</strong> as we toured this section<br /> Right at the start this project invited problems, by digging out the original road structure which had over 200 years of compaction and stabilsed ground over a deep bed of glacial clays and gravel sitting on a layer of fractured shale, which the plentiful records of core logs drilled long this route, that showed water present along the valley of Princes Street Gardens (the former Nor Loch) and other clues like the original Canal Street Station at the summit of Scotland Street Tunnel, and its water issues<br /> This issue immediately delivered a need to redesign the on street track with a concrete top slab extending around a foot outside the rails when the original design of tarmac just fell away from the rails (Tarmac as almost everyone finds out ! does not stick to steel and being a flexible pavement will just slump, crack and fall apart)<br /> Hence the redesign added the dyed black concrete shoulders extending out from the edge of the rails<br /> This still failed to address the seriously degraded stability of the ground both under the track slabs, but extending across the carriageway pavement on either side leaving a steady trail of steel road plates (a massive hazard for cyclists) with street ironwork requiring continual repairs as valve and access chamber covers come loose, and the carriageway sinks, at one point the Westbound lane at the Scott Monument had sunk 6 inches creating a huge puddle right at the bus stops<br /> In Manchester the Joint Venture team had developed a robust control on project costs by testing the ground underneath the track with standard California Bearing Ratio and Vane Tests for soil strength and cohesion before pouring the concrete, with allowances &amp; daywork rates for remedial work where soil weakness was identified<br /> By contrast almost every load transfer joint between Haymarket and Waverley has cracked, with lumps of concrete becoming detached and patch up repairs<br /> Here's a recent photo of the seriously dangerous 2" step where the concrete of the track slab has broken off and rotated right at the Junction for Castle Street<br /> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/55124388436/in/datetaken/" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/55124388436/in/datetaken/</a><br /> One solution that can cure a raft of problems with the current tram is to complete the work planned 130 years ago by the Caledonian Railway, digging a tunnel under Princes Street, generally easy through easy to dig material from Haymarket Yards to the North Bridge, and removing the conflicting movements of trams, at a high frequency, where all the routes converge between Lothian Road (Queensferry Street) and Leith Street/Regent Road (or North Bridge)<br /> To build this tunnel the side walls would be core piled and the 'umbrella' system used in 1963 to carry out the construction with traffic running over the top as it did for Oxford Circus Station, and the excavated material going out via Scotland Street Tunnel to the Water of Leith for land reclamation<br /> The 2 key stops on Edinburgh Trams would be better located at Lothian Road/Charlotte Square and Waverley Market for the railway station, and a relocated central coach station, extending the underground chamber to the North for coaches (&amp; some buses) - all electric - in a combined interchange with routes coming in from Queen Street or sharing the access with trams<br /> This can deliver a great all weather shopping street along Princes Street with direct access to trams plus Waverley Station plus long distance coaches &amp; bus services using a bus station built under George Street (in a trench dug along the centre where car parking is currently located (and can be closed in stages to build the chamber below, with access from Queen Street which runs at a lower level</p> <p>Based on the indications for Princes Street George Street is largely a raised beach of weaker soils where digging out between core piled walls can provide these underground facilities with the public space above </p> <p>To deliver this needs a robust umbrella project that can pull together the diverse interests as a coherent common interest for Edinburgh city development. There's the challenge? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-384707 Mon, 15 Jun 2026 09:08:41 +0000 chdot 384707@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.buildedinburgh.com/p/idea-13-a-future-plan-for-princes?" rel="nofollow">https://www.buildedinburgh.com/p/idea-13-a-future-plan-for-princes?</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383972 Sun, 26 Apr 2026 00:17:57 +0000 pringlis 383972@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is from Edinburgh Planning via Facebook group <a href="https://archive.is/si76G">Edinburgh Past and Present (Archive.is link)</a>.</p> <p><blockquote>By way of an update, the archaeology consultant from the developer has been able to confirm that the tiles have been fully recorded, left in-situ, and there are not plans for the tiles to be removed during demolition. We’re now in discussions with the developer about future plans for the tiles. Preferably they’d be retained and made a feature of within the building, but I cannot guarantee this as it will depend on multiple other factors if this can be achieved</blockquote> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383971 Sat, 25 Apr 2026 22:43:59 +0000 acsimpson 383971@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The same as happens to the unusual wallpaper patches on the left? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383969 Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:24:24 +0000 gembo 383969@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What will they do with those rare tiles halfway up the wall on RHS? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383968 Sat, 25 Apr 2026 14:49:00 +0000 Frenchy 383968@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&amp;keyVal=RSBP06EWJ9800">23/01417/FUL</a> | "Redevelopment including demolition for hotel use (Class 7) with ancillary bar /restaurant facilities and retail use at basement and ground levels including associated alterations and extensions."</p> <p>In case anyone was wondering. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383965 Sat, 25 Apr 2026 11:01:04 +0000 chdot 383965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55227371487_57f0c779cf_c.jpg"></p> <p><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55229206197_02b45f6a4f_z.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383422 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 22:47:55 +0000 bakky 383422@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“CCWE_” </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383416 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 20:52:40 +0000 gembo 383416@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is almost like the politicians have no skeletons and are just mush? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383407 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:58:28 +0000 neddie 383407@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>100% what Morningsider said </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383406 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 14:19:07 +0000 Morningsider 383406@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think the best thing any cycle campaigner can do is to hammer home the need for an "interim" safe route linking the two halves of the CCWEL. Secure that and then folk can choose whether to engage with discussions on George St and Princes St.</p> <p>Until such a route is provided, the city centre remains a cycle infrastructure desert and effective no-go area for many (potential) cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383402 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 10:35:46 +0000 neddie 383402@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>After 5 years and a few million quid spend on consultants, waiting for the "this is too large and expensive, let's break it down into smaller, more managable chunks"</p> <p>Repeat ad-infinitum</p> <p>When was the original City Centre Transformation? 2005? A mere 21 years ago... and no progress </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383401 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 10:15:30 +0000 neddie 383401@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just one more plan will fix it </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383400 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 09:37:46 +0000 chdot 383400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Leading urban planners Gehl Architects have warned Edinburgh council chiefs that drastic action is needed to transform the fortunes of Princes Street, after labelling the city centre shopping hub ‘a big bus station’ </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/archive/gehl-edinburghs-princes-street-is-big-bus-station" rel="nofollow">https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/archive/gehl-edinburghs-princes-street-is-big-bus-station</a></p> <p>(2011)</p> <p>ThisIsEdinburgh </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=21898#post-383399 Wed, 11 Mar 2026 09:29:49 +0000 chdot 383399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are CCE threads on GSt &amp; PSt. </p> <p>Now there seems to be the need for an ‘all embracing one’…</p> <p>“</p> <p>Transport and environment convener Stephen Jenkinson said he had now asked officials to come up with a new strategy, embracing Princes Street, George Street, the "cross streets" running between them, and St Andrew Square and Charlotte Square.</p> <p>He said: "All the projects are linked. We need a masterplan, potentially bringing together all the city centre projects into a programme of works to be considered by the committee.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://archive.ph/2026.03.11-082428/https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-city-centre-future-of-princes-street-and-george-street-up-for-debate-5627427?ref=edinburghminute.com" rel="nofollow">https://archive.ph/2026.03.11-082428/https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-city-centre-future-of-princes-street-and-george-street-up-for-debate-5627427?ref=edinburghminute.com</a> </p>