http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Paying for buses en Sun, 31 May 2026 12:04:14 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23324 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 23:12:16 +0000 druidh 23324@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Giving everyone in Edinburgh a free bus pass would probably have been cheaper than trying to install a toy trainset. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23297 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:34:57 +0000 Claggy Cog 23297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Parking is more of a problem now than it was say twenty years ago, which is possibly why people don't drive to theatre. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23283 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:39:42 +0000 steveo 23283@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A freind of mine one suggested that the best thing that could be done for city centre congestion would be to give a free bus pass with your VED or include it in the cost. Going on the premise that i'll take it cause its free mentality and using it, like applied sods law. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23282 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:33:39 +0000 cb 23282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"maybe we're subsidising taking middle-class, middle-aged car journeys off the road?"</p> <p>Definitely some of that. It's amusing to see 60-something theatre goers heading home on the bus at the end of the night. You didn't see them on the bus before free travel (slight generalisations aside) so what has changed?<br /> Did they not go to the theatre before because of the travel cost? That can't be the case unless they're now also getting free theatre tickets.<br /> Best I can come up with is that it is a "it's free, I'll take it thanks" mentality. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23281 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:23:07 +0000 kaputnik 23281@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't think my dad needs state subsidised bus transfer, he can afford to run a car, never mind pay the bus fare. He probably uses the bus more though now that he has his pass (who wouldn't?) so maybe we're subsidising taking middle-class, middle-aged car journeys off the road? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23278 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:05:02 +0000 Morningsider 23278@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SRD - You may well be the only paying passenger as there are approximately 1.18m concessionary travel card holders in Scotland. </p> <p>The scheme works as follows - The Scottish Government pay the bus operators approximately 71% of the full fare for every concessionary journey made by a card holder - an amount agred with the bus industry that is meant to ensure that the operator is no better or worse off than if they hadn't carried that passenger. The scheme has an annual cap of around £190m for total reimbursement that will be paid by the Scottish Government. What happens once this cap is reached isn't clear - as the cap has been set at a level above the amount claimed every year.</p> <p>Is this the best use of a pretty large amount of money or the best way of ensuring elderly and disabled people remain mobile? Not sure myself and no-one seems to want to look too deeply into this in case it comes up with some unpalatable suggestions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23270 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 15:37:36 +0000 SRD 23270@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Morningsider, of course, you're right, the bus companies do make obscene profits etc etc, but I also sometimes wonder how it all works when I get on bus after bus where I am the only paying passenger. But I do agree with you that more, not less, regulation is a better solution! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23252 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 14:02:34 +0000 Morningsider 23252@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SRD - this guy is a right-wing troll, despite the piece being in The Guardian. The real problem with bus services in the UK (outside of London) is that they are completely unregulated and services can be changed on a whim by fairly ruthless operators. Edinburgh is pretty much unique in having a publicly owned and socially minded operator in Lothian Buses.</p> <p>Local authorities can only subsidise a bus service if it is socially necessary and a bus operator cannot provide it on a commercial basis. This leads ruthless operators to withdraw services to hospitals, schools etc and then win a nice fat subsidy from the taxpayer to provide a service they were already running - it is easy to make a service appear non-viable by manipulating timetables. </p> <p>Ah, but what aboout competition - doesn't that prevent such market distortions? No, the major bus companies effectively operate geographic cartels (do you ever see First and Stagecoach seriously competing in a particular market?) These major comapnies can easily crush small operators if they choose by flooding a market with services for a short period.</p> <p>The major operators are all big political donors, just to ensure that services aren't re-regulated. </p> <p>I agree that the £200m a year the Scottish concessionary fares scheme costs, which also applies to disabled people as well as the elderly, is probably too much. I know well-paid people at work who use their pass to get to the office. However, this article is trying to shift the blame for poor bus services from city fat-cat types who are profiteering while providing a poor service onto pensioners, many of whom see their bus pass as a lifeline. Clever use of the old swithceroo by the commentator though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2203#post-23246 Mon, 07 Feb 2011 13:23:19 +0000 SRD 23246@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is a thought-provoking piece <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/06/bus-services-crushed-pensioner-burden">here</a> about the impact on bus companies of the free services for pensioners. Some good points, although he ignores the argument that keeping pensioners mobile also helps keep them healthy. Still, a am getting a bit cynical about this (and previous) government's willingness to make/keep benefits for old folks (who vote), but not for the young (who don't as much as they should)! </p>