CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Train to London in 4 hours

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Train to London in 4 hours http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Train to London in 4 hours en Thu, 21 May 2026 12:33:16 +0000 Arellcat on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-296372 Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:35:38 +0000 Arellcat 296372@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra", and painted in Intercity livery. It only took them seven more years, but since we're all trainwatching at the moment, this is the Big Development: <a href="https://flic.kr/p/2cV5Nv9"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4835/45889328162_6a83d2f034.jpg"></a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/2cV5Nv9">It's electrafying!</a> And we mourn the Class 89 not as the "Avocet" but as the "Badger"… <a href="https://flic.kr/p/Nfbtrt"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1925/30352885697_36b4feb1a1.jpg"></a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/Nfbtrt">The Badger!</a> chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-35345 Mon, 11 Jul 2011 02:06:34 +0000 chdot 35345@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Front of a 225 - <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/5923945685/in/photostream"> <img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5923945685_882ca15e93.jpg"></a> Tulyar on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34732 Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:08:02 +0000 Tulyar 34732@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Kaputnik - Check out the record performance year and you'll see why I've picked the name. Good presentation on 27th about IEP at IMechE - some saving graces the doors have to be set in from ends of the 26 metre coaches - and thus create spaces that work well for bikes, toilets etc. The 26m is longer than 23m (Mk 3 Mk 4) and 20m (all other coaches) and is creating some interesting challenges because watering and other connections are all currently set up for shorter coaches. SRD on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34212 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:18:03 +0000 SRD 34212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Good run back on the last train last night, and fun cycle home in the dark - first time I've had lights on in a while. helios much admired in London. had a good chat with a chap who had his two little girls in a bakfeits (sp?). said his wife had an onderwater (spp???), which is a tandem (or more) but with the kids up front. very cool to see lots of borisbikes being cycled around. kaputnik on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34198 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:35:03 +0000 kaputnik 34198@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Indeed it did - a journo special with a lightened trainset (5 cars plus the DVT according to WP) in 3 hours, 29 minutes and 30 seconds at an average speed of 112.5 mph (181.1 km/h). BR developed a tweak to the signalling in certain blocks on the ECML suitable for 140mph running with a flashing green aspect to indicate that the line ahead was clear for 2 blocks (as 1 block would be an insufficient safety margin for 140mph running). However that becomes a logistical and timetabling nightmare in itself as you are significantly reducing line capacity to allow the express trains to have an extra block clear ahead of them. A HST could do it (reach 140mph) too, but only with a lightened trainset (5 carriages). A class 91 can do it with ease and on uphill gradients too apparently with its full consist - but that's where 6,300hp comes in useful (an HST set has a paltry 4,350bhp at the rail). I guess tinkering around the edges with minimal funding was what BR's research and engineering fraternity were really good at. Putting things into practice less so... Arellcat on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34196 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:28:12 +0000 Arellcat 34196@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think that's exactly right, Kaputnik. The Voyagers and Pendolinos are renowned for their roll-over strength. Back on topic, didn't a Class 91 test train do the London-Edinburgh run in 3.5 hours once? I'm sure they ran at 140mph for extended periods to do it, though I don't know if it was a non-stop. Even in the 1950s that was a timetabling and signalling challenge. kaputnik on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34194 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:34:26 +0000 kaputnik 34194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I take it the "lightening" has been achieved through use of more "modern" construction materials? It is my understanding that the weight creep in the Mark IV and the Pendolino is due to how over-engineered they are for survivability purposes. All this talk of weight and construction techniques and materials and we could almost get back to a bicycle based discussion! Arellcat on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34193 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:21:02 +0000 Arellcat 34193@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ ...Hitachi IEP boasts only 800Kg of train per seat In the current issue of Professional Engineering magazine, there's an article about the IEP. "They will feature the same electrical architecture as the Class 395 although some will be bi-mode, or capable of both electric and diesel operation, to ensure they can be used in areas where there is no electrification." But they also say: "The IEP trains will also be bigger because the gauge size of the tracks in the parts of the country where they will operate is bigger than on the Channel Tunnel rail link ... The trains will also be lighter per seat than a Pendolino, for example. 'We have reversed the trend of trains getting heavier and heavier. We are lighter on a kilogram-per-seat basis.' This should help to reduce track wear, which was on of the stipulations of the tender from the Government for IEP." The crazy thing is that the HST is still a damn good train, simply built. With my environmental hat on, I can almost forgive its dieselness because it's still the most comfortable train I've used. chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34192 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:59:33 +0000 chdot 34192@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Is that where the user name comes from then?" Yes... You may have come across <a href="http://twitter.com/captain_deltic" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/captain_deltic</a> (not same person) <a href="http://www.garethbayer.co.uk/blog/2009/06/25/new-image-250609"> <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/5865602761_85922879a1_o.jpg"> </a> kaputnik on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34191 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:50:45 +0000 kaputnik 34191@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Of course the classic is the 99 Ton 3300 hp of the locos that preceded the HST Is that where the user name comes from then? ;) Tulyar on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34183 Fri, 24 Jun 2011 02:18:18 +0000 Tulyar 34183@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Lardbuckets - the traditional railway worker's opinion on the proposed replacement for HST (not yet ordered) Hitachi IEP boasts only 800Kg of train per seat and moving up as the project develops (HST is 730Kg per seat) A short HST ran at 148 mph testing the BT10 bogie mounted on a Mk 3 coach and structural analysis suggests that Mk 3 coaches remanufactured are good for another 40 years. At times of cash shortage it is also calculated that the leasing cost for an HST is less than a third of that for an IEP. The 225 loco (Class 91) is, if you study closely very largely the bogies and suspension of the ill-fated APT, with a large amount of the lessons learned incorporated in its design. Of course the classic is the 99 Ton 3300 hp of the locos that preceded the HST with a track forces standard which is a benchmark for other locomotives. kaputnik on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34159 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:11:16 +0000 kaputnik 34159@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra" And we mourn the Class 89 not as the "Avocet" but as the "Badger"... chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34154 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:23:50 +0000 chdot 34154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Also perhaps helps to explain the increased incidence of recumbents amongst the confraternity associated with King's Buildings" A bent of scientists? chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34153 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:22:39 +0000 chdot 34153@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "In the TOPS computer system they are known as a pair of Class 43 locomotives" "set of Top Trump trains" "I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra"" Too geeky for me (LOL, sic, etc.) Arellcat on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34152 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:18:37 +0000 Arellcat 34152@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I don't think the "225" branding really stuck in the public imagination like "125" did. It never did with me. I still think of the Class 91 trainset as "Electra", and painted in Intercity livery. cb on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34151 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:18:36 +0000 cb 34151@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The Intercity 125 was pretty much the best card you could get in my childhood set of Top Trump trains (now sadly, lost). - Best for speed - Best for Year Introduced (1976 I think, don't think there was anything newer) - Pretty good for Length. Can't remember the other categories, but HP was probably in there and it was probably pretty good for that too. crowriver on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34147 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:05:13 +0000 crowriver 34147@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ More a question of obsessives knowing about optimum means of transport. Fair point. Also perhaps helps to explain the increased incidence of recumbents amongst the confraternity associated with King's Buildings... kaputnik on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34145 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:59:58 +0000 kaputnik 34145@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I always though the trains were called Intercity 125 on account of them going at 125mph. Branded, rather than "called", by BR - for the reason you mention. They are generally known as the HST (defacto offical term I think) for "high speed train". In the TOPS computer system they are known as a pair of Class 43 locomotives and a rake of Mark III carriages (Not your standard Mark III carriages mind, they are wired differently and the two types are not compatible...) It was always intended as an "interim" solution pending something swishy for the future, but the basic concept of a pair of rather simple but very powerful high-speed diesel electric locomotives coupled to a light weight trainset has been so successful that 30-odd years later we're still humming and hawing about a potential replacement that really won't offer much more than its predecessor. Likewise the "225" set is a Class 91 locomotive, a rake of Mark IV carriages and a Mark IV DVT (driving van trailer) which is where the bikes go. I don't think the "225" branding really stuck in the public imagination like "125" did. The 225 project based a lot of its technology and design concepts on the abortive APT-P / Class 370 "tilting train" that ultimately was stillborn and the Mark IV carriages are profiled and designed to be allowed to tilt at "some future date". That of course has never happened. There were plans for a "250" for the West Coast, but BR never got the funding for it. It would have been a supped up version of the East Coast Class 91 with new Mark V carriages. Here endeth the sermon. Let's talk about bikes again. chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34139 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:43:14 +0000 chdot 34139@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Bicycle geeks are obsessive? More a question of obsessives knowing about optimum means of transport. (And other things - e.g. birds). chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34138 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:41:24 +0000 chdot 34138@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I always though the trains were called Intercity 125 on account of them going at 125mph" Yes. And 225s the same (kph). crowriver on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34137 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:41:20 +0000 crowriver 34137@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Bicycle geeks are obsessive? Who knew? Wilmington's Cow on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34134 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:32:30 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 34134@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ A bit like me being accused of being a 'twitcher' and scaling that back to 'birder'. I always though the trains were called Intercity 125 on account of them going at 125mph. Shows how much I know! chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34132 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:23:09 +0000 chdot 34132@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I had no idea we had so many trainspotters" I think you'll find the term is "people with an interest in a wide range of transport options that have had for many years". Wilmington's Cow on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34130 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:12:29 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 34130@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I've only just found this thread. I had no idea we had so many trainspotters... :-/ SRD on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-34123 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:33:46 +0000 SRD 34123@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Nice ride down on the Flying Scotman this morning. Could definitely have made a 10am meeting. No probs with the tandem. Only problem was all the one-way streets, which I usually walk with no problem - and without realizing they are one way. My first time travelling first class - there were at least 3 coaches laid on, and hardly enough passengers to fill one. So lots of table space to spread out materials. Most civilized! Arellcat on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-33229 Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:58:02 +0000 Arellcat 33229@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I actually rather liked it, in a 'proper railway era' sort of way. kaputnik on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253&page=2#post-33226 Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:20:07 +0000 kaputnik 33226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ yes, it does look a bit cheap, tacky and from the wrong side of the Atlantic, doesn't it! Arellcat on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253#post-33225 Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:01:43 +0000 Arellcat 33225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Now where have I seen that livery before? Grand Central Railway Company Ltd., 2011 <a href="http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/your-journey.html"><img src="http://www.tay39.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/misc/180112_KGX.png"></a> Southern Pacific Railroad, 1941 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GS-4"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/4449idle.jpg/300px-4449idle.jpg"></a> chdot on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253#post-33202 Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:02:21 +0000 chdot 33202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I have on occasion been put into front van of diesel too as they have vans at both ends." Yes, though for some reason they are usually 'out of use', unlike the 125s here - "Cyclists are welcome on board all Grand Central services. Space for cycles is available in the first and last vehicles on each train." <a href="http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/your-journey.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/your-journey.html</a> LaidBack on "Train to London in 4 hours" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2253#post-33199 Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:13:15 +0000 LaidBack 33199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Most have the bike space at the front end luggage coach going south. The exception are the few older diesel ones coming from Aberdeen or Inverness." Not exactly. First Class is almost always at the front. On 225s (electric) bikes are next to 1st. I think there are more electric East Coast trains than their vintage diesel ones. All I was meaning is that statistically you are more likely to be in van at front in Edinburgh going south. Most people expect luggage to be at the back and if you are travelling with family getting along the platform with bikes can be stressful. I have on occasion been put into front van of diesel too as they have vans at both ends.